|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
January 13, 2008, 08:30 PM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2008
Posts: 8
|
To Crimp Or Not? Pistol Loads
Just started reloading,loaded a few 38 special rounds and shot them today at the range.Loaded 125 grain TMJ's at 5.1 grain.Only shot two of them though out of a 38 special 2 inch barrel.Had a little problem with 8 of the rounds,me like a dummy put to much of a bell in them and they wouldnt go into the cylinder.Corrected that problem when i got home.Now the question i have is do you need to crimp pistol loads?Kinda scary pulling that trigger on the first round though.
|
January 13, 2008, 08:44 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 31, 2005
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 226
|
I've loaded 45 ACP and .357 Mag, I crimped both. It seems to me that it would be a '' MUST DO '' , for two reasons.
1. to push the bell back in(as you found out). 2. I think the crimp is needed to get the mouth of the case turned in just a hair so the edge of the case mouth is not catching things as you load. I'm not an expert, but I thought I'd pitch in. You ought to see what some of the more experienced loaders have to say. Good luck loading!!! |
January 13, 2008, 08:56 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 10, 2007
Location: Blue State, NE US
Posts: 202
|
You should crimp all handgun ammunition, and must crimp some of them.
The magnums will produce inconsistent performance unless a heavy crimp is used. You should use taper crimp for cartridges that headspace on the mouth, and roll crimp for those that headspace on the rim. I like .002 crimp for 45ACP, 9mm etc. Lee FCD takes a lot of guesswork out of crimping, the best $10 or so you will spend. I also use Redding roll-crimp dies for the magnums. LT P.S. TC - You did not mention the powder for your 38Spec load. 5.1 grains sounds like a heavy load for most powders. |
January 13, 2008, 09:40 PM | #4 |
Junior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2008
Posts: 8
|
To Crimp Or not To crimp Pistol Loads
Thank's for the info,i am using an Hornady Classic Lock N loAD lock n load single stage press.I guess i need to play with it to get the proper crimp setting on it.I think that it seats and crimps the bullet with only one die.
|
January 13, 2008, 10:48 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
|
Revolvers are good at making bullets back out if you don't crimp the bullet. Always crimp revolver loads. A bullet backing out can lock up your cylinder.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services |
January 13, 2008, 11:15 PM | #6 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 2007
Location: The Lone Star State
Posts: 255
|
Quote:
The same goes for my .38 Special loads since I'm using a 148 grain HBWC for both my K-38 and Clark 1911 conversion. They feed just fine with the taper crimp; no roll on either the 38s or 45s. Now, for the loads in my Model 629 with jacketed bullets, I do use a roll crimp to ensure that the bullets don't back out from the recoil.
__________________
Navy Vet, SWIFT Boat OIC, Distinguished Pistol Shot #1399 USS JOHN S. MCCAIN (DDG-36) |
|
January 14, 2008, 03:03 AM | #7 |
Member
Join Date: December 6, 2007
Posts: 34
|
always trim or make sure your cases are the same length before crimping, 45 acp no roll crimp or a very very light one... better off with a taper crimp. the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. I really like the lee factory crimp die for autos....
|
January 14, 2008, 03:06 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 17, 2007
Posts: 680
|
+1 on the Lee Factory Crimp Die. It does a final resize on the case (critical for .45ACP in my 1911) while applying just enough crimp to keep the bullet in place.
__________________
Blessed is the man who has nothing to say, and cannot be compelled to say it. |
January 14, 2008, 06:33 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11,756
|
Quote:
Also worth mentioning another big, BIG reason to crimp-- when shooting a semi-automatic, a solid crimp prevents a bullet from getting pushed further in to the case by accident by a feeding pistol. (also valid on a tube magazine fed rifle) A bullet getting pushed down in to a case can raise pressures exponentially.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
|
January 14, 2008, 07:18 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 3, 2006
Location: Alaska
Posts: 152
|
Here's good reason to crimp on the big bore revolver cartridges. Talked with a fellow this weekend whose friend didn't crimp his 454 casull properly. When fishing on a small stream he was charged by a brown bear. The first round went into the animal's shoulder and the second never went off because the bullet jumped forward and jammed the cylinder. The bear took off into the brush and was not seen again.
He later figured out he messed up the crimp. Actually I'd never carry my own reloads for self defense against critters or other dangers. I know I could mess them up and am will to pay the 35-40 bucks to get a small box of factory ammo. I just started reloading for my s&w 500. I seated the bullets too deep on the first 20 of my reloads. One jumped forward on a relatively lite load. After fixing the crimp this weekend all went off without a hitch. Crimp? Yes. I'm also in favor of the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I use it when I load for 45 acp and love it. Last edited by AKGunner; January 16, 2008 at 12:41 PM. |
January 14, 2008, 09:14 PM | #11 |
Junior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2008
Posts: 8
|
To Crimp Or Not To Crimp
I ordered the Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 38.
I am using Unique Powder In the Loadbook USA it calls for 5.7 grains for the TMJ 125 grain bullet. I am using Berry's Bullets also. Thank's for all the replies,learning a lot of good info on here. |
January 15, 2008, 08:37 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,324
|
crimp will NOT secure a bullet
Bullets rely on case neck tension to secure them; crimps on 'revolver' cartridges (best = Redding Profile Crimp Die) can aid in the release timing of the bullet, but will not secure it.
In autoloading cartridges crimp removes the flare, and case neck tension secures the bullet. I found that the surest method of PREVENTING setback is to use a powder charge that does not allow room for the bullet to be pushed back. Not guessing about this; I've crimped the tops off of bullets (and I have some 357 Maximum cartridges someone sent me; mechanical removal of bullet required-- musta been glued in; absolutely unreal)........modifying the amount of crimp is my recommended final tweaking of already-successful ammo. "Crimp; the Final Frontier" Most highly recommend seating with one die and crimping with another......
__________________
. "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo" |
January 15, 2008, 09:21 AM | #13 | |
Junior member
Join Date: July 26, 2007
Posts: 3,668
|
Quote:
|
|
January 15, 2008, 09:44 AM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 5,457
|
I crimp everything.
I built and used hot 296 loads with 300-325 grain lead bullets for the .44 mag for several years; used them a 4" Model 29. New Starline cases, turned-down expander. There's no way those bullets would stay put in that revolver without a serious crimp. The 6th round in the cylinder would creep. I saw the exact same thing with heavy 325's in the .45 Colt, when fired from the 5 1/2" Blackhawk. For the loads mentioned in the paragraph above, I eventually went to a two-stage crimping operation, using a Lee FCD and finishing with a 'bump' into an RCBS roll crimp die. The crimp made the difference; the slugs stayed put after that. Talk to Buffalo Bore, Garrett, Corbon or any purveyor of heavy hunting loads. Ask them if they run a heavy crimp on their loads.
__________________
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice. |
January 15, 2008, 10:06 AM | #15 | |
Member
Join Date: December 6, 2007
Posts: 34
|
Quote:
|
|
January 15, 2008, 02:44 PM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Posts: 941
|
Quote:
Mike |
|
January 16, 2008, 11:58 AM | #17 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 26, 2007
Posts: 3,668
|
He's right, relative to roll-crimping, which was only a subset of the "trim all brass" post that he made. Of course, you don't trim pistol brass...it shrinks.
|
January 16, 2008, 01:12 PM | #18 |
Member
Join Date: December 13, 2004
Location: Knik, Alaska
Posts: 65
|
I would slightly modify the statement concerning taper crimp versus roll-crimp. You should taper crimp for any of the following conditions:
- The cartridge headspaces off the case - When using electroplated (not the same thing as jacketed) lead bullets such as Rainier or Berry bullets. A roll crimp risks cutting through the electroplating and they you will likely get plating separation when fired (electroplating from the crimp on down will be on the ground somewhere in front of you). Worse yet, the separated plating will lodge in the barrel and obstruct the next round that you shoot, causing all kinds of havoc of course. Guns have been destroyed by doing this. - Whenever the loading manual specifies a taper crimp for the round that you are using, or whenever the bullet manufacturer specifies a taper crimp for the bullet that you've selected. You should use a roll-crimp for the following: - Jacketed bullets with a cannelure groove - Lead bullets - Whenever the loading manual specifies it for the round you are loading or the bullet manufacturer specifies it for the bullet you are loading. - In general for magnum or high-recoil loads (which rules out those electroplated bullets for high-recoil and magnum loads BTW) - In general for rimmed cartridges that headspace off the cartridge rim I think that covers it... There may be exceptions for some light-load rounds and roll crimps, i.e. OK to use a taper crimp. Brian
__________________
Yes, Samantha, there is a God and the United States *is* a good country |
January 16, 2008, 07:04 PM | #19 |
Junior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2008
Posts: 8
|
To Crimp or Not to Crimp
I want to thank all yall for your input on this,as i am new to reloading and i am in the learning process.I do have another question on the Lee Factory Crimp die,does it put a tapered or a rolled crimp on the case?Thank's Again guys yall are a big help to this rookie reloader
|
January 16, 2008, 11:25 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 10, 2004
Location: Tioga co. PA
Posts: 2,647
|
The Lee factory crimp die either does a taper or roll crimp depending on what your crimping some calibers can be had in either a taper or roll crimp. I'm not saying a single die can do both but that dies can be bought in both style crimps. I don't have a catalog handy but I have bought a 45ACP in taper and a 38 SPL in roll. Rifle FCD taper crimp as far as I know.
|
January 17, 2008, 12:28 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11,756
|
The Lee Factory Crimp die is different than either roll or taper crimping. What this die does is squeeze the round and put a factory-like ring around the case for a crimp not at the case mouth, and not in the taper style. Probably for this reason alone, other manufacturer's don't make one of these dies and don't wish to. They believe it's neither natural nor productive to ring brass outside of the factory, especially if you do it to the extent that it deforms bullets.
For my buck, I don't have one and haven't used one. I can tell you that if I did have one and it otherwise made my handloads feed more reliably, I'm sure that I would love it. But I haven't had any trouble with the regular seating/roll crimp die in .45, and even though I also own a taper crimp die in .45, I haven't found the need to use it. Could be that my pistol just eats up my ammo. I've just started handloading for 9mm and I haven't taken my first trials to the range yet. If I find myself with feeding issues, I may explore a separate taper crimp or even the Lee FCD to help me. But until I have that problem, I don't see why I need to add a FCD to my bench.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
January 17, 2008, 12:30 AM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11,756
|
Oops, I forgot to add that I've also never had any feeding issues with any of my 10mm ammo either. I use the standard Lee carbide 3-die set. I don't have a separate taper crimp die, and I don't own a FCD die in any caliber, and my ammo feeds -- and that makes me a happy guy!
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
January 17, 2008, 12:40 AM | #23 |
Member
Join Date: February 19, 2006
Location: MO
Posts: 49
|
Buy a book!
Hi Tcarrol,
Hey, I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ but if you have to ask this kind of question you should probably buy a reloading handbook of some kind. I don't see where anyone gave you any bad info but how would you know if they did? You have a couple of guys offering a different opinion on something here. Which one is right? You will use a good book for years to come and learn a lot about reloading. It might even keep you from blowing yourself up or wrecking a nice gun. Good luck Mike |
January 17, 2008, 02:17 AM | #24 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,063
|
Quote:
Target loads and lower pressure cartridges tend to shrink because the whole cartridge is pushed rearward when pressure is too low to stick it to the chamber wall. At the same time it backs up it expands to plug the gas leak the rear of the chamber would otherwise be. That makes it fatter and shorter. When you go to resize it, the brass is moved rearward as well as inward, causing the loss. I once tracked 1000 W-W .45 ACP cases through 50 reloadings with 3.8 grains of bullseye under a cast 185 grain bullet. A light load. The cases lost an average of half a thousandth per reloading, and were 0.025" shorter when I retired them.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle |
|
January 17, 2008, 09:27 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,324
|
yep
Kinda.
I have loaded: 9x19 9x21 38 Special 38 Super 357 Magnum 40 S&W 400 CorBon 10mm 41 AE 41 Magnum 44 Special 44 Magnum 45 ACP 45 Colt 475 Wildey Magnum Am I forgetting any? Oh yeah, some 270 Winchester......
__________________
. "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo" |
|
|