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Old May 4, 2017, 01:02 PM   #26
ATN082268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E Meyer
However, not to divert but I'll be straight forward. Ditch the shotgun paradigm for the AR. The shotgun offers nothing over that platform.
I'd say shot for shot, a 12 Gauge shotgun is hard to beat for home defense ranges.
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Old May 4, 2017, 03:24 PM   #27
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I don't want to redo that debate. If there is evidence that the 12 gauge is superior based on evidence, not anecdotes, I haven't seen it and I pay attention to such.

But, I'm out suggestions on this thread. I can shoot both - I have the low recoil Federal in my shotgun for HD but going for the AR if I have to use a long arm.

Do what folks want based on cliches.
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Old May 4, 2017, 05:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
mehavey wrote: I'm having a real problem here. ½mv² exiting the muzzle -- which is necessary to stop the TrulyTrulyBadGuy -- can't be violated to be gentle to the SensitiveGoodGuy.

You're either going to throw an effective load of buckshot -- enough of it/going fast enough -- to get the job done or you're not.

So I'm not going recommend anything reduced-recoil.
Instead I suggest taking the standard 2¾ 00 Buck out...
...and get used to it.
Some people can't take the recoil for a variety of reasons. Some people can't make a follow up well due to recoil. That said: 9 53 gr. pellets moving 1150 fps can make 9 33 caliber wound paths delivering 156 ft. lbs each deliver 1404 total ft. lbs of muzzle energy. I don't know too many people who are going to volunteer to be the Test Dummy for that.
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Old May 5, 2017, 08:08 AM   #29
ATN082268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E Meyer
I don't want to redo that debate. If there is evidence that the 12 gauge is superior based on evidence, not anecdotes, I haven't seen it and I pay attention to such.

But, I'm out suggestions on this thread. I can shoot both - I have the low recoil Federal in my shotgun for HD but going for the AR if I have to use a long arm.

Do what folks want based on clichés.

If someone thinks that something like a single 9mm. 5.56mm, etc. round is more effective than a single 12 Gauge shotgun round for home defense ranges, then more power to them In any case, for the 12 Gauge Mossberg 590A1, I like to use Federal low recoil flitecontrol rounds that generally can pattern all 9 of 00 Buckshot in the 8 ring or better up to 25 yards.
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Old May 7, 2017, 08:12 AM   #30
2damnold4this
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I think the shotgun can offer some advantages at home defense ranges but low recoil isn't one of them.


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Old May 7, 2017, 11:53 AM   #31
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The differences between the recoil of an AR and shotgun might not be as important as we think.
Under the extreme circumstances of an actual home defense occurrence, would anyone even notice recoil?
It might matter for practicing, though.
Or avoiding practice.
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Old May 19, 2017, 12:34 PM   #32
vba
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OP, I have severe arthritis in my facet joints from the top to bottom of my spine. I no longer use standard 12 gauge loads to practice but use reduced velocity Fiocchi.

My home defense shotgun is also same load or reduced recoil in Remington or Federal, in either buckshot or slugs. They don't hurt my back nearly as bad as the standard stuff.
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Old May 19, 2017, 01:20 PM   #33
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After a lot of investigation, I'm going to try some Nobelsports 2 1/4 inch buckshot loads.
These have six 00 pellets at 1250 fps.

http://www.jgsales.com/12ga-nobel-sp...x.-p-3243.html

For practice I saw some Low recoil, low noise birdshot loads at about 980 fps at Walmart that I'm going to try out.

Some people just physically can't use most shotgun defense loads without suffering actual damage to a shoulder.
It's not a matter of "Gee that hurt" it can be a matter of the doctor saying, "Gee you damaged the joint, time for major surgery".
That situation requires some serious thought and experimentation.
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Old May 19, 2017, 02:02 PM   #34
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I wish I could find 20 ga. reduced recoil buckshot for my shotgun pistol.
Anyone know of any?
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Old May 20, 2017, 02:32 PM   #35
Dfariswheel
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Internet search found this............

http://wolfhillammo.com/20gaugetacti...ckshot234.aspx
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Old May 20, 2017, 03:33 PM   #36
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Thanks!
I may try some, but even light field loads are brutal in this thing.
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Old May 20, 2017, 04:59 PM   #37
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Sorry to "buck" the trend....but have you tried the .410? My Mossberg 500 .410 is a handy, low-recoil package, and the perp won't really tell much difference between 5 000Buck pellets and 8 00Buck pellets.....

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Old May 23, 2017, 05:13 PM   #38
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ATN082268 I think you are mixing what a 12ga. shotgun is capable of in theory vs. reality. No a single pull of the trigger of a 5.56 AR style firearm will not throw as much lead downrange as a 12ga. load of 00 buck. However the AR has less recoil which means that for someone who is say 5'0" and 115lb soaking wet, it is more appealing to train with. Which experience has shown is the difference when it comes to home defense duty. If the defender has a 12ga. but they don't like to practice with it because of the recoil/weight/difference in reloading/sound/ergonomics, it is no more useful than a golf club.

For someone buying a gun for their home defense that doesn't have experience with firearms, an AR15 platform is usually a better bet. Take that person to the range for an afternoon with an AR15 and a 12ga. and then put them through a realistic course of fire based around home defense at the end and I guarantee you that they will perform much better with the AR and feel much more confident in themselves with it. Unless they REALLY like shotguns.

My apologies as I don't want to derail this thread, but do a search on this site of all the threads about home defense, shotgun for HD, HD shotgun, HD weapon, and you will begin to see a trend. Experienced forum members with real life training, simulated training, and years of experience will say that it's the mindset/skillset that matters most. What gun will allow you to obtain that skillset: 12ga. or AR15? That's up to you.
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Old May 23, 2017, 06:35 PM   #39
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No win situation

Can't have loads of power W/O loads of recoil to accompany. Can't fight physics.

Launch a lot of lead, like an ounce of it at enough velocity to be effective? Recoil is unavoidable.

The laws of physics can not be suspended, even temporarily.
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Old May 24, 2017, 01:50 PM   #40
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I like the 8 pellet Federal Flitecontrol LE low recoil buck. It can usually be had pretty cheaply if you look around the internet. 3.97/box here.

https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/953-...buck-shot.html
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Old May 27, 2017, 05:38 PM   #41
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Definitely not low recoil, but I keep the Winchester defender 2 3/4 shells in my hd 12 guage. It's short barrel scatters normal buckshot so badly at just 7 yards it would be possible to miss entirely at max indoor range.
Those are the 3 00 buck followed by a slug loads.
At 7 yards all 4 projectiles hit a 12" target. At 25 yards the buck misses completely.

But I also keep the standard 9 00 buck in my 28" barrel 12 guage.

Ar vs 12, I had a college teacher who had a tweaker succeed in kicking down his front door. By time the drug addled fool got in 12 guage was ready for action. Body landed on the front step.
Just won't ever get that result from a rifle even with multiple shots.

But the biggest difference is the sound of a 12 guage pump is all you need to send most bad guys running.


As for recoil reduction, I like the recoil pads. Tried the rubber limbsaver brands. Not bad, not gonna throw away the one I got. But I much prefer the recoil pad 2.0 I picked up at sportsman Warehouse. Better fitting, stays in place. Large decrease in felt recoil.

Btw, college teacher, marine Vietnam combat vet. Could of grabbed his old M16 but chose the 12.
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