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Old May 18, 2017, 02:40 PM   #1
PlatinumCore16
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What to do now CO?

So I remembered (what seemed like a couple weeks ago) that there was a committee that was attempting to make a bill to repeal the "high capacity" mag ban in CO. So I looked it up over lunch: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017...ouse-committee

How do we get past this? Besides the obvious answer of getting a new governor, or is that really the only answer.
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Old May 18, 2017, 03:29 PM   #2
ShootistPRS
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The act died in committee - it never made it to the floor of the congress.
How you get past it is to mail letters, write emails and make phone calls to the folks in the committees. Then you do the same thing to all your representatives and senators and you keep doing it until it passes. If they don't listen then let everyone know that they are anti gun and show the record. The next election use their past voting record to get them out and a more conservative in.

If that doesn't work and you know that more than half the states voters want the act repealed you could start an initiative and let the people vote it out. You have to be very careful with initiatives because if you have a small geographic area that contains more than half the population then that area will decide the outcome of your initiative. Those areas are typically around big cities that are loaded with liberals.
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Old May 18, 2017, 05:05 PM   #3
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootistPRS
The act died in committee - it never made it to the floor of the congress.
How you get past it is to mail letters, write emails and make phone calls to the folks in the committees. Then you do the same thing to all your representatives and senators and you keep doing it until it passes. If they don't listen then let everyone know that they are anti gun and show the record.
It should also be emphasized that governors generally have no direct power to control whether a bill gets a floor vote in the legislature. I don't know about CO specifically, but this is generally true of almost all jurisdictions in the USA.

The governor can use the bully pulpit and strong-arm influential legislators in various ways, but the fact that he or she can is no guarantee that it will actually happen.
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Old May 18, 2017, 06:06 PM   #4
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Right (yea I saw that it died before getting anywhere plus the twin house bill died even before committee), other problem would be that he could veto it if it made it through the senate & house AND would need some sort of majority vote (usually) to get past the veto. Which the republicans definitely don't have, or at least the pro-gun side doesn't.

It just irks me because law enforcement on various(all) levels have all come out and said that the law is almost impossible to enforce and the only people who have actually been charged with it, were already charged with something else.
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Old May 18, 2017, 07:54 PM   #5
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Our Governor saw to it that Constitutional Carry was killed every year including this year. His Lobbyist was at all the committee meetings.
He quit Bloomberg's group Mayors against Guns or something, and two weeks later joined NRA. Promised when running he would sign Constitutional Carry if it got to his desk.
He kept it from getting to his desk.
He likes the many million that permits and application fees bring in each year as does a Supporter who runs Gun carry Permit classes.
All told about 300.00 to get a life time Permit in Tn.
Yes, the Governor knows what each Legislator is doing or supporting. His staff control them ads much as they let them.
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Old May 19, 2017, 07:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinbucket
He quit Bloomberg's group Mayors against Guns or something, and two weeks later joined NRA. Promised when running he would sign Constitutional Carry if it got to his desk.


He kept it from getting to his desk.
That is a gutsy and shrewd move, so he can claim he kept his word... Not that I'm saying it's right, but wow...
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Old May 19, 2017, 11:49 AM   #7
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There's probably no going back, minus some sort of high publicity use of a concealed carry pistol with a normal-cap (15+) magazine by a non-LEO citizen being used to save a bus load of baby seals going to a ganga concert.

So long as the Democrats hold the House, nothing "common sense" will be passed to the governor to call his bluff.
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Old May 20, 2017, 10:10 PM   #8
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I have family in Colorado, lived there myself when it was still red from 1991-97. Anyway, this law is totally unenforceable. I have literally 40 or 50 steel mags that hold more than 15 rounds, and there are no indications or marks saying when they were made. Some folks I know who live there have similar caches of mags. You could easily acquire pistol or rifle mags with no way to verify their age.

The law is pointless.... Even in states with total bans given that acquisition of such mags is so easy.
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Old May 22, 2017, 08:32 AM   #9
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Our instructor at my pistol class said "Whenever we get the ability to buy 15+ mags again. Until then just go up to Cheyenne [WY]."

His reasoning was that he disobeys unconstitutional laws. I agree with the fact that the law is silly, but I would rather order mags online. One of my LGS sells mags as "parts kits" because "there is no law against selling a parts kit for your mag". However they are a ma&pa shop and they can get away with that. Any of the large box stores basically just don't sell any 9mm, double stack pistols because their mags are illegal. The ma&pa store is awesome and we (my gf and I) like them a lot, but their prices aren't always the best.
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Old May 22, 2017, 08:33 AM   #10
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi
...this law is totally unenforceable. I have literally 40 or 50 steel mags that hold more than 15 rounds, and there are no indications or marks saying when they were made. Some folks I know who live there have similar caches of mags. You could easily acquire pistol or rifle mags with no way to verify their age.
Yup. I've written on this topic at length, and to paraphrase what I've written before, the prosecution would have to prove one of the following things to find someone in violation of the law:
  1. The person obtained the large-capacity magazine(s) after July 1st, 2013. In most cases, it's not possible to prove this without solid eyewitness testimony or irrefutable documentary evidence.
  2. No firearm in existence prior to July 1st, 2013 could accept the magazine(s).
  3. The particular magazine, or type of magazine, did not exist prior to July 1st, 2013.
  4. The person was not yet born on July 1st, 2013, or at least would have been so young that his or her possession of firearm magazines would be highly unlikely.
IMHO #4 is the real stinger. This is the reason myself and other commentators have characterized this law as more of a generational phase-out than a true ban.
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Last edited by carguychris; May 23, 2017 at 12:52 PM. Reason: reword
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Old May 23, 2017, 09:23 AM   #11
doofus47
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CarguyChris:
2 other options of proof:
1. If there's a quality control manufacturing date/serial on the magazine that shows it was made after 2013.
2. A magazine type, say "Magpul Gen 5," which wasn't available before 2013.
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Old May 23, 2017, 09:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi
I have literally 40 or 50 steel mags that hold more than 15 rounds, and there are no indications or marks saying when they were made.
If you have one company which continues to make the same magazine over the years, then it would be virtually impossible to pinpoint a particular magazine date. Any alteration to a magazine, such as the style or material used, could be used to determine at least rough dates of manufacture.
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Old May 23, 2017, 12:58 PM   #13
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doofus47
2 other options of proof:
1. If there's a quality control manufacturing date/serial on the magazine that shows it was made after 2013.
2. A magazine type, say "Magpul Gen 5," which wasn't available before 2013.
Those are covered in #3, which I've reworded a little bit to clarify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATN082268
Any alteration to a magazine, such as the style or material used, could be used to determine at least rough dates of manufacture.
Yup—and as an example, some M&P9 FS mags I bought in 2014 have a different base plate design than mags that I purchased in 2013, which were the same as the ones that came with my 2011-production pistol. IOW sometime in the 2013-2014 timeframe, S&W changed the design of the M&P9 FS magazine in a distinctive way, and woe could potentially befall someone who takes a post-2013 17rd M&P9 magazine into CO. These sorts of minor design changes are not always well-documented or advertised.
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Old May 24, 2017, 10:34 AM   #14
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carguychris
Quote:
Those are covered in #3, which I've reworded a little bit to clarify.
I probably should have just been smart enough to see that the first time...
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Old June 4, 2017, 09:21 AM   #15
MagnumWill
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Keep in mind that rebuild kits are still available, so replacing a broken Magpul Gen 2 body with a Brand new Magpul Gen 3+ mag body isn't illegal. So there's an example where you have a brand new 2017-era part that's compliant.
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Old June 5, 2017, 12:03 PM   #16
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Save your pics and receipts, magnumwill.
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Old June 7, 2017, 10:31 AM   #17
carguychris
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^^^ Using MagnumWill's example, I would also personally recommend smashing the Gen2 mag body flat with a BFH and keeping it. This would provide affirmative proof that the person repaired a pre-existing magazine rather than effectively assembling a new one piecemeal.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor and YMMV.
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Last edited by carguychris; June 7, 2017 at 10:43 AM. Reason: disclaimer added
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