SIG 1911s?

[Mosin44az]

Are SIG’s 1911 models good? Have they had problems? Interesting looks, but I recall my old gunsmith referring to quality problems when they first came out. How have they been lately? Thanks

[PatientWolf]

Mine may be the smoothest 1911 I own (but I don't own many). Eats everything I feed it and very accurate. The external extractor doesn't bother me, but I sure wish they'd stick with the traditional slide contour.

[railroader]

I have two, one in 45acp and one in 9mm. The 45 has the sig 1911 contour but the 9mm slide the regular 1911 contour. Both run great and are very accurate.

[DFM914]

Sig 1911's are some of the finest combat pistols made!

[rodfac]

Great guns. I have the Sig 1911 RCS in .45 ACP. Here are the specs: Match bbl. and trigger, Novak Tritium sights, 4"bbl. shortened "Officers Model" length grip, flared mag well, full 7 round mag capacity, checkered for and aft grip frame, smoothed and rounded frame 'melted', SS slide, alloy frame, and Sig's great customer service. Of the dozen or so 1911's I've owned including a pair of Series 70 Colt Gold Cups, this Sig is the best carry gun of substantial caliber I've ever owned or shot. 2" gps at 25 yds are the rule with WWB FMJ's or my handloads and it's been 100% reliable over the past three years. Discontinued now, you can find them readily on gunbroker at substantial discounts. It's one superb fighting handgun. HTH's Rod

[BigJimP]

I see more and more of them around the local range lately...I think they are solid guns for the money.

I consider them a mid range quality 1911...nothing close to Ed Brown or Wilson Combat / but certainly equivalent to most of the higher end Springfield models like the TRP.

[Aguila Blanca]

When SIG first introduced their 1911s, they were a complete disaster. They were so bad that SIG shut down production and completely revamped the supply chain, blaming all the problems on the supplier of the frames and slides: Caspian Arms. Curiously, Caspian was stuck with a bunch of cancelled SIG frames and slides, so they sold them as kits ... and none of the kit buyers seemed to have any problems with them.

Meanwhile, SIG released their second generation 1911s, which were nearly as bad as the first generation. So they again revamped the entire 1911 production system. "Third time's the charm," according to a well-worn saying, and with the third generation SIG was finally able to produce some 1911s that were up to the standards of middle-of-the-pack competitors' pistols. And that's where they sit today. The current SIG 1911s seem to be okay guns, acceptable but not exemplary, but it's difficult to understand why anyone would buy one when there are better 1911s available for the same (or less) money.

[Mosin44az]

Thanks for the info everyone. Aguila, which brands do you consider to be better values?

[MJFlores]

I cant get past the external extractor...just not a true 1911 with one of em. Friends I know who work at Sig (I'm in NH) wont even use their discount to own one...I avoid them too. Sig isn't the same company it was 9 years ago.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Mosin44az

Thanks for the info everyone. Aguila, which brands do you consider to be better values?

I always begin with Colt. I think Colt offers the most value for the money in a 1911. If you don't want Colt, a notch below them on the price scale brings us to Ruger and Rock Island Armory. If you want to spend more than the price of Colt's higher-priced pistols, then you're into custom or semi-custom territory. Take your pick of Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, or Les Baer. My choice would be Guncrafters.

[Slamfire]

This was the best deal I ever came across in a M1911. Cabelas had them on sale for $399 and I had a $100.00 gift card. These pistols are tight, as tight as a Kimber, the trigger pull excellent.

Factory grips:



Herrett grips installed.



I have around 400 rounds through mine, the magazine release was too short, magazines ejected during firing. Customer service sent me a new one, and it works great. The same company makes similiar low cost, M1911's, with different brand names. I handled a Llama brand, made by the same company, the Llama had extended safeties, beavertails, adjustable sights. It was also very tight.



I have short fingers and wanted the short GI trigger. I wanted a thumb cocker, I don't want a M1911 that has to be carried cocked and locked. I don't want a beavertail in the way of cocking the hammer, and I did not want a safety that is easily tripped to the on or off position. Extended safeties have a habit of doing that, I have seen competitors on Top Gun accidentally trip their safeties, and waste time figuring out why their pistol won't go bang. I talked to a Range Officer, he sees that at the range often enough to recognize that is a problem.

[BigJimP]

I'm not a Ruger fan...and while I think they are ok, they're pretty far down the list of acceptable in the 1911 world in my opinion ......but I really have to disagree on Rock Island, nothing Rock Island makes has an inkling of quality in it - they're just junk.

I think around $1,000 Colt is making some very solid mid grade guns .... / ..I think one of the best guns for the money out there is Springfield TRP with a lot of features many shooters like - ambi safeties, mag well, checkered front strap for around $1,500. To me, Sigs 1911's are in the mix with Colt & Springfield.

Part of looking at 1911's is figuring out what features you want in a gun... .45 acp or 9mm / 4" - 5" barrels, bull barrels or a bushing, ambi safety, mag well, bob tail, type of sights, checkered front & back straps, cocking serrations front or back of slide - or both...internal or external extractors....etc.../ ..its not just about picking a Colt or Sig...

For my money, Wilson Combat makes the best 1911's on the market - but you are quickly into $3,000 - $4,000 prices even on their entry level guns like his CQB model.

[Model12Win]

While not a 1911, the SIG P220 in .45 ACP is very similar in terms of capability yet has the benefit of a more modern simplified action and great reliability:



They were used and continue to be used by many police departments around the country and are counted as an excellent and reliable duty pistol.

[Mosin44az]

Model12, yes a SIG P220 Carry with SAO trigger has been on the want list for awhile.......

[Mosin44az]

Thanks Aguila. Rock Island, interesting thought. Know the others are good. Better than Springfield and Kimber?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Slamfire

I have around 400 rounds through mine, the magazine release was too short, magazines ejected during firing. Customer service sent me a new one, and it works great. The same company makes similiar low cost, M1911's, with different brand names. I handled a Llama brand, made by the same company, the Llama had extended safeties, beavertails, adjustable sights. It was also very tight.

The pistols currently wearing the Llama brand are not made by Armscor (Rock Island). They are made by one of the other two Philippine 1911 makers. I think they are made by Metro Arms.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Mosin44az

Thanks Aguila. Rock Island, interesting thought. Know the others are good. Better than Springfield and Kimber?

Everyone has their favorites. Springfields are better than Rock Islands (in general), but not as good as Colts (in general). Kimber has their fans, but there are many other people whose motto is "Friends don't let friends buy Kimber." Kimber is (IMHO) more about advertising and gimmicky finishes than they are about quality firearms.

[crusader4x]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Everyone has their favorites. Springfields are better than Rock Islands (in general), but not as good as Colts (in general). Kimber has their fans, but there are many other people whose motto is "Friends don't let friends buy Kimber." Kimber is (IMHO) more about advertising and gimmicky finishes than they are about quality firearms.

A Sig Emperor Scorpion Carry 1911 has been my EDC for almost a year now. It's been a fine pistol with zero hiccups.

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[TunnelRat]

I’ve had more luck with my Springfield Armory than I did with my Colt and at 1000+ rds I seem to shoot it as well if not better and the function is notably better (the ejection was terrible on the Colt and in likelihood it needed to go back to the factory). The metallurgy may well be better on the Colt but I haven’t noticed a deficiency with the SA yet.

A friend of mine picked up a SIG 1911 some time back. It had repeated failures to extract out of the box. I kept telling him to send it in but idk if he ever did. That was a sample of one of course. That said nothing about it seemed better than say a SA and certainly not a Colt, which they’re often close to in price.

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[Mosin44az]

It sounds like SIG has improved, but not flawless. My old gunsmith touted Colt’s metallurgy as superior. Sounds like SIG is roughly with Kimber, maybe a bit below Springfield. Thanks for the replies

[rt11002003]

I had two SIGs in .45ACP, a Target and a MAXX. Both were excellent pistols. I've owned DW and Springfield, along with STI. STI is my favorite 1911. Should I decide another 1911 is needed, I may try Colt. Haven't convinced myself the more expensive ones, such as Wilson, etc., are worth the price.

[Go_Ordnance]

I had an STX and an XO. The purists don’t like the external extractor, but they’re good guns. Mine both ran great out of the box. I traded the STX for the XO, and later traded the XO for the P227 SAS.

[Slamfire]

.but I really have to disagree on Rock Island, nothing Rock Island makes has an inkling of quality in it - they're just junk

Ouch! You are going to have to define what you mean by quality, calling something junk because it is.......

I got to pick the best out of three RIA's and each of them was very tight. That is, no wobble on the barrel hood, hardly any movement between slide and frame, no wobble at the barrel bushing, and the trigger was good on all of them. The one I picked had zero wobble between slide and frame, all else being equal.

I took my piece of junk to the range and it fed everything I shot.

Rock Island Arsenal GI M1911 RIA 5" barrel

200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WLP
18-Dec-17 T = 61 °F

Ave Vel = 718.8
Std Dev = 13.82
ES = 48.91
High = = 747.1
Low = 698.2
N = 19


230 Norinco Ball 1991 headstamp
18-Dec-17 T = 61 °F

Ave Vel = 776.5
Std Dev = 13.74
ES = 57.15
High = = 798.7
Low = 741.5
N = 24

shot point of aim


230 FMJ 5.0 grs Bullseye (1998 & 2005 mix) WLP, OAL 1.265" taper crimp 0.469"
once fired brass

18-Dec-17 T = 58 °F

Ave Vel = 777.4
Std Dev = 14.56
ES = 57.1
High = = 806
Low = 748.9
N = 30



230 Bull-X LFN Hardcast 3.5 grs Bullseye WLP, OAL 1.20 taper crimp 0.469"

18-Dec-17 T = 58 °F

Ave Vel = 607
Std Dev = 11
ES = 42.81
High = = 630.2
Low = 587.3
N = 32

slide functioned every round.


230 gr LRN 4.6 grs W231 Mixed brass WLP OAL 1.250" taper crimp 0.469"

18-Dec-17 T = 58 °F

Ave Vel = 674.5
Std Dev = 21.28
ES = 94.55
High = = 713.8
Low = 619.2
N = 32


230 gr LRN 5.0 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP OAL 1.250" taper crimp 0.469"

18-Dec-17 T = 60 °F

Ave Vel = 803.8
Std Dev = 25.92
ES = 89.11
High = = 853.3
Low = 764.2
N = 14

I shot more than what is chronographed, as I have been out to the range several times since. I was able to adjust for windage, which I am grateful for a drift adjustable rear, and the thing ejects cases high and to the right, which means they don't go into my net, I have to pick the rounds up off the ground. It is as accurate as any of my series 80 Colts, the irons on this thing are not target sights, and certainly not a Red Dot. With an optical sight I would be able to tell if this thing is capable of target accuracy or not. With irons, if I get a circular group around my aim point, that is good enough. And I am.

My pistol has gone bang every round, feeds and ejects reliably, so what more do you want for $399? I did look at my Gun Test article on this pistol, they were happy, and I did search for other experiences on the web, and I did not find a consensus that these pistols were "junk"

I would have preferred forged/milled trigger sear parts. I am on my third MIM hammer and second set of sears on my Clackamus Kimber. This is a series 70 action, I don't like the Schartz safety, makes it hard to reassemble the pistol.



Can't say a MIM frame is all that bad. The steel in the frame and slide is excellent in this application, far better than the plain carbon steels used in GI 1911's.

To some, junk is simply something they don't own. So, what is your definition of junk?

[dgludwig]

[QUOTE] While not a 1911, the SIG P220 in .45 ACP is very similar in terms of capability yet has the benefit of a more modern simplified action and great reliability

The Model 227 (the same pistol as the Model 220 but having more capacity) is another option.

The location of the extractor aside, I'm a big fan of 1911 pistols made by SIG and consider them to be one of the best pistols for the money on the market today.

[KyJim]

I have a fairly early Sig C3 (aluminum frame, CCO-size) that I have never had a problem with past the first hundred rounds. However, Sig replaced the barrel because the Storm Lake barrel had been made with the grain going cross-way rather than along the length of the barrel. They evidently used a drop-in replacement because the bushing didn't seem as tight and the gun was never quite as accurate as it originally was. Still, not a bad gun.

In the mid-range, I think Springfield and Colt are the best options. It partly gets down to what options you want on the gun and how does it feel in your hand.

If you go up to the next level, Dan Wesson is the superior choice. They have a couple of models with a street price in the $1,200 range. Nice fit and finish, a first-rate trigger, and, if it matters to you, no MIM parts.

BTW, I have a Sig P220 Compact, single action only. It doesn't have as good a trigger as a decent 1911 but it's nothing to sneeze at.