Can anyone simplify the AK models out there? - Page 2

Model12Win · February 7, 2018, 05:23 AM

Century Arms has cleaned up there act and their current AKs are fantastic.

DubC-Hicks · February 7, 2018, 07:15 AM

Not the RAS-47s or the C39s

DMK · February 7, 2018, 07:51 AM

Quote:

I guess everyone has different luck with PSA. I built a PSA Mforgery (complete rifle kit + lower) back in 2010 and it has been flawless. I did buy the premium parts, not the cheap stuff, so maybe that makes a difference.

Maybe that's it. The stuff that my friends and I got was the cheap stuff. We got sucked in by their daily deals.

DMK · February 7, 2018, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Century Arms has cleaned up there act and their current AKs are fantastic.

Rob Ski and Tim from Military Arms Channel might disagree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJB9x2IPx8Q

(TLDW) serious build issues and cracked lugs (/TLDW)

Fishbed77 · February 7, 2018, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Regarding the PSA AK’s: The one’s with issues were the Gen 1’s and the kits they were selling. The Gen 2 complete rifles have been good from what I have gathered and from my experience as an owner of two of them.

Many early Gen 2s also had cast bolt carriers (after PSA advertised that they wouldn't).

Quote:

Century Arms has cleaned up there act and their current AKs are fantastic.

Nope.

Ignition Override · February 13, 2018, 12:04 AM

Carmike:
You might watch videos by AKOU, featuring Rob Ski. We know the external tests are a bit harsh, but they do Not cause premature wear in bolt lugs, channels, front trunnions etc. These can be caused by low-grade US commercial steel and/or assembly.

He shows you internal wear at various AKs' 3,500 and often at 5,000 round stages.

From what I've seen and read about for hours (I'm retired), the worst are I.O: cheap steel grade and assembly, then maybe RAS could be next.

The WASR 10 did very well at 5,000 rounds, as did the Atlantic Polish and at least several others.

Moderators at AKfiles, i.e. "Nalioth" (47 forum) can probably vouch for Rob's tests His huge following and stark internal results prompted a letter to him by IO's CEO, Mr. Uli whatever.

With Century, the seasoned advice is to buy an .. imported.. Century AK, but avoid their US-made versions if you want durability, and totally avoid the infamous IO.

Venom1956 · February 15, 2018, 05:54 AM

The days of good AKs for decent money is sadly over.

Russian (saiga/vepr/molot) was the best imo

Bulgarian (Avoid a newer SAM7s which are unsafe trash)

Romainian

Serbian (PAPs mine say serbia i think)

I can't speak to Egyptian, Chinese, Polish or anything else before my time.

I haven't bought a Domestic made AK but I'd recommend Krebs if you've got the coin. I'd try a newer PSA AK for the price i'd take the risk but I wouldn't expect much.

IO who needs rivets? aks are the best.

CLC · February 15, 2018, 07:05 PM

Century arms is an importer. They rebuild the guns to American spec. Norinco, Saiga etc are foreign made export. PSA and the like is all in house made American made. WASRs are built on Romanian guns IIR. When dealing with importers like century it all depends on their individual build quality. They have had issues with this in the past. Some companies like Hesse downright suck. My RPK is freaking welded together.

Ignition Override · February 18, 2018, 03:31 AM

When Century imports AKs, importers (not consumers) change 6 parts to comply with ATF 'reg' 922r.

They can leave the barrels, bolt carriers, bolts, dust covers all-matching (i.e. my Romanian SAR-1 and Hun. AMD-65, by TGI). They mostly change the mag, follower, trigger control groups.
Imported barrels, trunnions, bolts and bolt carriers have usually been produced with military-grade steel.

But if Century produces US-made "AKs", every component seems to be created in the US.
The barrels, trunnions, bolts, bolt carriers on one of the Century US AK types are manufactured only with lower-grade, commercial steel.

Consult AKfiles if in doubt or you don't see the info that you want to see.
Moderator "Nalioth" will provide a very astute, helpful, clear answer.

armabill · February 18, 2018, 10:38 AM

What about the Vector marked AK's? Any good?

joeb · February 18, 2018, 12:38 PM

Nails is straight up and pulls no punches.

Bamashooter · February 18, 2018, 07:50 PM

I bought a WASR-10 a couple days ago. One of the reasons I chose the WASR was the reviews by AKOU and the fact that I had a chance to inspect the rifle I was buying. Have not shot it yet but hope to this week sometime. The sights line up and if the front sight is canted I cant tell. Finish and wood also looked good with no wobble in the front handguard or uneven gaps in the buttstock to reciever fit. The magazine I got with it was a eastern bloc metal mag that has minimal wobble when inserted empty. Overall very pleased with the WASR so far.

Ignition Override · February 19, 2018, 02:39 AM

Bamashooter: Being retired last year has allowed many hours reading the AK-47 forum on AKfiles (and now SigTalk!).

Based on my SAR-1's reliability -- it's pretty much a WASR 10/63 -- you made an excellent choice: high quality military-grade steel, solid assembly.

"AKOU" on Youtube is achieving really wide viewership, and (infamous) I.O.'s CEO, Mr. Uli ***** even got nervous, sent Rob Ski a letter, because IO was concerned with Rob's test results showing the Viewers the rifle's very Premature Internal Wear at 2,000 (?) rds. I don't remember seeing Rob allowing I.O. testing further than 2,000-2,500 rds. or so.

DMK · February 19, 2018, 07:40 AM

Quote:

The sights line up and if the front sight is canted I cant tell.

If your front sight or the gas block is canted, you can tell by looking across the top of the rifle. The center of the dust cover, the rear sight, the gas tube and the front sight should all be in line. It will be very apparent if something is not.

My old 2001 SAR1 had a front sight that was slightly canted. I clamped the barrel in a vice and gave the front sight block a few hard wacks with a rubber mallet. I also opened up the notch on my rear sight just a little on the opposite side. That fixed the problem.

**4V50 Gary** · February 19, 2018, 11:50 AM

Egyptian Maadi was mentioned. Back in the days, per SoF it was the AK to have as it was the closest to the Russian one. Steyr-America only imported 2k of them and they commanded a good price.

Here is something I found at Arfcom about them:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AK-47/Eg...ide/81-143966/

kymasabe · February 20, 2018, 05:20 PM

I've had over a dozen AK's over the years. Had a dreaded I-O AK-47C that always worked for me, never had a problem with it. Wasr's, converted a bunch of Saiga's...but the absolute BEST AK I ever owned was an Armory USA gun, made in Texas on Bulgarian parts...

ilmonster · February 21, 2018, 03:53 PM

Agree with previous posters. Check out Rob's youtube channel "AK Operators Union". He really sorts out what is reliable/good from the junk, and talks about and shows what isn't working properly or wearing prematurely when it doesn't pass his test. Things such as the tail of the bolt mushrooming, bolt lugs chipping, rivets coming loose, etc. A great education.

As an aside, I was looking for a solid, not fancy AK (maybe akin to a Colt 6920 in the AR world), and after watching hours of his videos (including how to disassembly an AK with his friend Dima), bought a Romanian WASR two years ago and couldn't be more pleased! Totally different than an AR, but super fun (and inexpensive) to shoot and worth having!

p.s. my AR is a BCM middy
p.p.s. and those comblock steel magazines, those will survive a nuclear bomb! Puts AR magazines to shame.

Erno86 · February 21, 2018, 04:51 PM

The Romanian PSL - 7.62x54R - 4x Russian rangefinder scope (no crosshair focus)(still used by the Kurds) that I have...is a beast (because of the recoil). It's a designated squad marksman rifle --- same for the Iraqi Tabuk rifle, in 7.62x39, that I also have...is such a sweet shooter.

I highly recommend both of these long, thin barreled AK type rifles (both on the Maryland banned for sale list), but once the barrel gets hot...groups will tend to string.

Ignition Override · February 21, 2018, 10:33 PM

ilmonster:
People seem totally unaware of AK Operators Union, created by the former Polish Army soldier.

Isn't it strange that almost every Other Youtube AK video or channel simply shows smoke/flame from a brand-new AK's muzzle and the owner is so impressed with its reliability (fresh out of the box)?

Caution: If anybody decides to buy a 'generic' Non-Steyr Maadi, do Avoid the "MISR 90".
A number of MISR 90s were checked for head space, but Before the barrel was re-adjusted in the trunnion! Wow.

This might easily explain why several Maadis were returned to a gun shop on the east side of Ft. Campbell Blvd (don't remember the shop name) in Clarkesville TN

The shop owner only told me that they were "Maadis" which suffered "Blow Outs". His words.

DMK · February 22, 2018, 07:30 AM

Quote:

People seem totally unaware of AK Operators Union, created by the former Polish Army soldier.

And Rob Ski currently serves in the US Army as a squad designated marksman and more recently a sniper.

ilmonster · February 22, 2018, 01:49 PM

Yup, Rob is the real deal. Again, AK's are a completely different animal than an AR15, but super enjoyable to shoot and worth having. Let us know what you decide! Cheers

Erno86 · February 23, 2018, 02:51 PM

They're also some medium to heavy long barrel AK/AKM, kit build sniper rifles, in 8mm out there. Don't forget the belt fed, semi auto RPK kits, in 7.62x39.

February 7, 2018, 07:15 AM	#27
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	Not the RAS-47s or the C39s __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

February 13, 2018, 12:04 AM	#31
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,884	Carmike: You might watch videos by AKOU, featuring Rob Ski. We know the external tests are a bit harsh, but they do Not cause premature wear in bolt lugs, channels, front trunnions etc. These can be caused by low-grade US commercial steel and/or assembly. He shows you internal wear at various AKs' 3,500 and often at 5,000 round stages. From what I've seen and read about for hours (I'm retired), the worst are I.O: cheap steel grade and assembly, then maybe RAS could be next. The WASR 10 did very well at 5,000 rounds, as did the Atlantic Polish and at least several others. Moderators at AKfiles, i.e. "Nalioth" (47 forum) can probably vouch for Rob's tests His huge following and stark internal results prompted a letter to him by IO's CEO, Mr. Uli whatever. With Century, the seasoned advice is to buy an .. imported.. Century AK, but avoid their US-made versions if you want durability, and totally avoid the infamous IO. Last edited by Ignition Override; February 13, 2018 at 12:10 AM.

February 15, 2018, 05:54 AM	#32
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	The days of good AKs for decent money is sadly over. Russian (saiga/vepr/molot) was the best imo Bulgarian (Avoid a newer SAM7s which are unsafe trash) Romainian Serbian (PAPs mine say serbia i think) I can't speak to Egyptian, Chinese, Polish or anything else before my time. I haven't bought a Domestic made AK but I'd recommend Krebs if you've got the coin. I'd try a newer PSA AK for the price i'd take the risk but I wouldn't expect much. IO who needs rivets? aks are the best. __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

February 15, 2018, 07:05 PM	#33
CLC Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Posts: 603	Century arms is an importer. They rebuild the guns to American spec. Norinco, Saiga etc are foreign made export. PSA and the like is all in house made American made. WASRs are built on Romanian guns IIR. When dealing with importers like century it all depends on their individual build quality. They have had issues with this in the past. Some companies like Hesse downright suck. My RPK is freaking welded together. __________________ In god we trust, all others must pay cash.

February 18, 2018, 03:31 AM	#34
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,884	When Century imports AKs, importers (not consumers) change 6 parts to comply with ATF 'reg' 922r. They can leave the barrels, bolt carriers, bolts, dust covers all-matching (i.e. my Romanian SAR-1 and Hun. AMD-65, by TGI). They mostly change the mag, follower, trigger control groups. Imported barrels, trunnions, bolts and bolt carriers have usually been produced with military-grade steel. But if Century produces US-made "AKs", every component seems to be created in the US. The barrels, trunnions, bolts, bolt carriers on one of the Century US AK types are manufactured only with lower-grade, commercial steel. Consult AKfiles if in doubt or you don't see the info that you want to see. Moderator "Nalioth" will provide a very astute, helpful, clear answer. Last edited by Ignition Override; February 20, 2018 at 08:05 PM.

February 7, 2018, 05:23 AM	#26
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Century Arms has cleaned up there act and their current AKs are fantastic.

February 18, 2018, 10:38 AM	#35
armabill Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2001 Location: Glenolden, Pa. USA Posts: 250	What about the Vector marked AK's? Any good?

February 18, 2018, 12:38 PM	#36
joeb Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2007 Location: Coastal South Texas Posts: 135	Nails is straight up and pulls no punches.

February 18, 2018, 07:50 PM	#37
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,860	I bought a WASR-10 a couple days ago. One of the reasons I chose the WASR was the reviews by AKOU and the fact that I had a chance to inspect the rifle I was buying. Have not shot it yet but hope to this week sometime. The sights line up and if the front sight is canted I cant tell. Finish and wood also looked good with no wobble in the front handguard or uneven gaps in the buttstock to reciever fit. The magazine I got with it was a eastern bloc metal mag that has minimal wobble when inserted empty. Overall very pleased with the WASR so far.

February 19, 2018, 02:39 AM	#38
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,884	Bamashooter: Being retired last year has allowed many hours reading the AK-47 forum on AKfiles (and now SigTalk!). Based on my SAR-1's reliability -- it's pretty much a WASR 10/63 -- you made an excellent choice: high quality military-grade steel, solid assembly. "AKOU" on Youtube is achieving really wide viewership, and (infamous) I.O.'s CEO, Mr. Uli ***** even got nervous, sent Rob Ski a letter, because IO was concerned with Rob's test results showing the Viewers the rifle's very Premature Internal Wear at 2,000 (?) rds. I don't remember seeing Rob allowing I.O. testing further than 2,000-2,500 rds. or so. Last edited by Ignition Override; February 20, 2018 at 08:11 PM.

February 19, 2018, 11:50 AM	#40
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Egyptian Maadi was mentioned. Back in the days, per SoF it was the AK to have as it was the closest to the Russian one. Steyr-America only imported 2k of them and they commanded a good price. Here is something I found at Arfcom about them: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AK-47/Eg...ide/81-143966/ __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 20, 2018, 05:20 PM	#41
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	I've had over a dozen AK's over the years. Had a dreaded I-O AK-47C that always worked for me, never had a problem with it. Wasr's, converted a bunch of Saiga's...but the absolute BEST AK I ever owned was an Armory USA gun, made in Texas on Bulgarian parts... __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

February 21, 2018, 03:53 PM	#42
ilmonster Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 180	Agree with previous posters. Check out Rob's youtube channel "AK Operators Union". He really sorts out what is reliable/good from the junk, and talks about and shows what isn't working properly or wearing prematurely when it doesn't pass his test. Things such as the tail of the bolt mushrooming, bolt lugs chipping, rivets coming loose, etc. A great education. As an aside, I was looking for a solid, not fancy AK (maybe akin to a Colt 6920 in the AR world), and after watching hours of his videos (including how to disassembly an AK with his friend Dima), bought a Romanian WASR two years ago and couldn't be more pleased! Totally different than an AR, but super fun (and inexpensive) to shoot and worth having! p.s. my AR is a BCM middy p.p.s. and those comblock steel magazines, those will survive a nuclear bomb! Puts AR magazines to shame. Last edited by ilmonster; February 22, 2018 at 01:50 PM.

February 21, 2018, 04:51 PM	#43
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	The Romanian PSL - 7.62x54R - 4x Russian rangefinder scope (no crosshair focus)(still used by the Kurds) that I have...is a beast (because of the recoil). It's a designated squad marksman rifle --- same for the Iraqi Tabuk rifle, in 7.62x39, that I also have...is such a sweet shooter. I highly recommend both of these long, thin barreled AK type rifles (both on the Maryland banned for sale list), but once the barrel gets hot...groups will tend to string. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

February 21, 2018, 10:33 PM	#44
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,884	ilmonster: People seem totally unaware of AK Operators Union, created by the former Polish Army soldier. Isn't it strange that almost every Other Youtube AK video or channel simply shows smoke/flame from a brand-new AK's muzzle and the owner is so impressed with its reliability (fresh out of the box)? Caution: If anybody decides to buy a 'generic' Non-Steyr Maadi, do Avoid the "MISR 90". A number of MISR 90s were checked for head space, but Before the barrel was re-adjusted in the trunnion! Wow. This might easily explain why several Maadis were returned to a gun shop on the east side of Ft. Campbell Blvd (don't remember the shop name) in Clarkesville TN The shop owner only told me that they were "Maadis" which suffered "Blow Outs". His words.

February 22, 2018, 01:49 PM	#46
ilmonster Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 180	Yup, Rob is the real deal. Again, AK's are a completely different animal than an AR15, but super enjoyable to shoot and worth having. Let us know what you decide! Cheers

February 23, 2018, 02:51 PM	#47
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	They're also some medium to heavy long barrel AK/AKM, kit build sniper rifles, in 8mm out there. Don't forget the belt fed, semi auto RPK kits, in 7.62x39. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell