A bit of a curiosity

musicmatty · September 6, 2022, 02:55 AM

I have the good fortune of owning 2 Winchester 12 gauge model 120 rangers. One of these started to double feed recently. The gun would only double feed after firing approximately 6 shells. I can never get it to double feed just cycling the action and not firing with just putting shells in the chamber and then ejecting. This was all normal function until actually firing the gun.

I inspected the ‘ shell stop arm’ and it looks and operates perfectly fine. I also inspected the ‘throat piece at the end of the loading tube just below the chamber for any cracks or looseness and it also looks to be perfectly fine.

So here’s the curiosity… I swapped out the trigger group from the other model 120 and the problem is now solved… No more double feeding. Both shotguns operate perfectly fine With each other’s trigger group in the other gun. After swapping out the trigger groups, I tested each shotgun with firing no less than 50 rounds through each gun on this afternoon. I shot a mix of birdshot, buckshot and slugs.

To me, this is a true curiosity… I have never seen anything like this

Scorch · September 6, 2022, 05:55 PM

Tolerances. Either in the guns themselves or in the shells you are shooting, or both.

musicmatty · September 6, 2022, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Tolerances. Either in the guns themselves or in the shells you are shooting, or both.

Very interesting…most likely the guns themselves.

**44 AMP** · September 6, 2022, 10:02 PM

It is a curiosity. I would call it Serendipity.

From a functional standpoint what you did changed something about how the problem gun's feed system parts moved under recoil, and that solved the problem.

And since the problem gun trigger group is now in the non-problem gun, and that gun is still a non problem gun, I'd say what ever it was about the problem gun that caused the problem it wasn't the trigger group alone.

I'm not at all familiar with the 1400 mechanism, so I can't give you any good valid analysis of what might be the cause, sorry.

I was taught to work on the 1200s (is the 1400 an upgrade to the 1200? or a different design inside?) but that was back in the 70s and I only worked on three of them, none since.

musicmatty · September 6, 2022, 10:36 PM

Quote:

I was taught to work on the 1200s (is the 1400 an upgrade to the 1200? or a different design inside?) but that was back in the 70s and I only worked on three of them, none since.

It’s not a 1400 model. The 1400 is semi automatic. The Winchester model 120 is based off of the 1300/1200. The only difference between a 1200 and 1300 is that the 1300 can receive 3 inch shells. Both are pump action. The model 120 came with a corn cob forend and no checkering on the stock. Simply put, less fancier model with the same working mechanism as a 1300.

It truly is a curiosity I believe. Both of these shotguns were produced between 1986 and 1988. The shotgun with the double feed problem was very much broken in and well used when I bought it 13 years ago. The other model 120 I purchased about two years ago and I believe it may have not been fired… Like new condition. I’m very thankful both of the shotguns are up and running. The new Winchesters made in Turkey are not even in the same league in my experience… Winchester in name only and that’s it. The CZ shotguns are made in Turkey by a different group and they are excellent!

September 6, 2022, 02:55 AM	#1
musicmatty Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2009 Location: Eastcoast Posts: 346	A bit of a curiosity I have the good fortune of owning 2 Winchester 12 gauge model 120 rangers. One of these started to double feed recently. The gun would only double feed after firing approximately 6 shells. I can never get it to double feed just cycling the action and not firing with just putting shells in the chamber and then ejecting. This was all normal function until actually firing the gun. I inspected the ‘ shell stop arm’ and it looks and operates perfectly fine. I also inspected the ‘throat piece at the end of the loading tube just below the chamber for any cracks or looseness and it also looks to be perfectly fine. So here’s the curiosity… I swapped out the trigger group from the other model 120 and the problem is now solved… No more double feeding. Both shotguns operate perfectly fine With each other’s trigger group in the other gun. After swapping out the trigger groups, I tested each shotgun with firing no less than 50 rounds through each gun on this afternoon. I shot a mix of birdshot, buckshot and slugs. To me, this is a true curiosity… I have never seen anything like this Last edited by musicmatty; September 8, 2022 at 02:10 PM.

September 6, 2022, 05:55 PM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Tolerances. Either in the guns themselves or in the shells you are shooting, or both. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

September 6, 2022, 10:02 PM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	It is a curiosity. I would call it Serendipity. From a functional standpoint what you did changed something about how the problem gun's feed system parts moved under recoil, and that solved the problem. And since the problem gun trigger group is now in the non-problem gun, and that gun is still a non problem gun, I'd say what ever it was about the problem gun that caused the problem it wasn't the trigger group alone. I'm not at all familiar with the 1400 mechanism, so I can't give you any good valid analysis of what might be the cause, sorry. I was taught to work on the 1200s (is the 1400 an upgrade to the 1200? or a different design inside?) but that was back in the 70s and I only worked on three of them, none since. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.