Need advice on used 1862 Police I bought

[TruthTellers]

I saw a used 1862 Pocket Police online last week and since I'd had my eye on them for so long, I grabbed it for $250. It has the 6.5 inch barrel that I wanted and while I kind of know there's always the chance you could wind up with a rusted/pitted cylinder and bore, I took the chance figuring if I like the revolver, I can buy a spare barrel.

Well, the cylinder looks fine, some surface discoloration from rust, but it's not objectionable as I have that in one of my '58 NMA's because my first time shooting, I didn't know I had to clean it within a few days.

Apart from some minor scratches and dents on the frame and grips, the issue is the bore of the barrel; it's pitted pretty well in several spots and the seller said the barrel "looked good." There's also some play in the cylinder when locked up, which I don't have in my 1851 Pietta, so I'm not sure if the Uberti Pockets are supposed to have some play in the cylinder.

The thing is, I like the revolver, it has an excellent feel and with the 6.5 inch barrel, it's not top heavy or anything. Like I said, I could buy another barrel for it, maybe the 5.5 or 3.5 inch and keep the 6.5 inch as a spare.

My concern is if I go to re-sell it, I have to tell the buyer that the bore is pitted and I'm wondering how that's going to affect the resale price. If I can't get at least $200 for it, should I send this back and get a refund?

[gwpercle]

I would get a refund.
I would invest that $250.00 in a brand new one , or at least one in better condition.
The barrel didn't "look good"...it was pitted and pitted doesn't look good in my book.
Better deals are out there for $250.00.
Gary

[rodwhaincamo]

I’d want my money back as well. It’s for this very reason I’m skeptical of buying used.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by rodwhaincamo

I’d want my money back as well. It’s for this very reason I’m skeptical of buying used.

It's the first black powder revolver I've ever bought used and the reason why I always avoided them was that I'd likely have this issue, but the description said the "bore is in good condition" and pitting is not in "good condition" in my book because if I sold something under that language and saw what I'm seeing, they'd say the same thing.

Bottom line: if I tried to sell this revolver in its current condition, I'd be lucky to get half what I paid for it.

[Hawg]

Send it back a new one is only about 100 more.

[TruthTellers]

I emailed the seller and he said that he had his "gunsmith" look it over and he did not see any major pitting and that the bore is not "badly pitted."

I went into this with the description that the bore is in "good condition" and nowhere in the description, nor any pictures showed that there was any pitting. At what point do I leave a negative review here guys and file a fraud report?

[rodwhaincamo]

At the point he refuses to refund you.

[rodwhaincamo]

Was this gunsmith his local small engine repair guy?

[rodwhaincamo]

Take good pics of the condition.

[TruthTellers]

Here's one picture of the bore:



IDK, would you guys list this on gunbroker as in "good condition"?

[TruthTellers]

Here's a picture of the cylinder. Also not in "good condition" unless rust is now a feature of being in good condition.

[rodwhaincamo]

No way I’d call that “good condition.” It’s not. It’s been neglected. Granted maybe the damage isn’t very bad and it may shoot well still it is not in good condition whatsoever and I wouldn’t be inclinded to be happy having spent my money, especially top dollar, on that. It would be another story were it’s condition known and priced accordingly.

Is the bore pitted just in the center of the barrel as it appears?

Is the seller refusing to refund you?

[TruthTellers]

The bore is pitted sporadically from about 1 inch into the chamber end to basically the muzzle. Just shining a light down the muzzle you can see brown rust and pitting a quarter inch in and it goes down for an inch or two.

Seller has stated "all sales are final" even with black powder guns, so as of his only response to me since I contacted him, he is refusing to refund me.

If I don't get a response from him by tomorrow night, I'm going to file a fraud claim through gunbroker and then on Monday I'll be calling the BBB. This bore is in terrible condition.

[rodwhaincamo]

I’m angry for you!

[TruthTellers]

Thanks, but you don't have to be, I have faith that this is going to be resolved after I get gunbroker involved. I've already reached out to the credit card company to ask them what can be done to reclaim the funds from the seller.

The sad thing is that this is the this exact reason why I never bothered to buy a used black powder muzzleloader on gunbroker. I always thought I'd get something that was jacked up. I've bought stuff on gunbroker before that was advertised and had pics of bores with pitting in them and that particular gun turned out to be just fine. To buy something that's said to be good only to not be is unacceptable and I will leave scathing feedback if this isn't resolved.

Heck, at best he's going to get a D just for refusing to refund me the first time. Nowhere on the listing page does it even say "all sales are final."

[TruthTellers]

Alright, he's refusing refund and is hiding behind the NRA's definition of "good condition" which includes light pitting.

Negative feedback and a fraud report will get this taken care of.

[Ricklin]

That bore looks like a sewer pipe, cylinder is not much better.

I went with the Pietta 1858 NMA target model in stainless. I'm not a traditionalist and stainless makes sense for BP, Still have to keep it clean, but not near as critical as steel.

My issue was the cylinder bores were of differing sizes, to the point the revolver was dangerous. The oversize bores, 2 of them would allow the ball to come off the powder under recoil. Not good.

Customer service for Traditions the importer was downright surly. When I told him in very exact dimensions the cylinder bores they agreed to "have a look at it." I had to send the gun to them on my nickel, I may have paid the shipping back too, I don't remember.

They did the right thing and sent a replacement revolver and it is excellent. Was not a good experience at all with Surly service tho. They were not in the least interested in helping me until I dug my heels in and told him the measurements of the bores three digits right of the decimal.

[TruthTellers]

^Ricklin, based on the picture above, if you were grading the bore off the NRA's standard of antiques, would you say it is in good condition or fair condition?

IMO, the cylinder is in good condition, but the bore is in fair condition as the bore is lightly pitted all over and rust is present. The seller described the bore in good condition.

GOOD: Some minor replacement parts; metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned or re-blued; principal letters, numerals and design on metal legible; wood refinished, scratched bruised or minor cracks repaired; in good working order.

FAIR: Some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or re-blued; rounded edges of metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken; in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order.

If reproduction revolvers like the Uberti are graded as a modern guns then he's totally fraudulent here.

Either way, I think that the bore fails to meet the good condition classification for either modern or antique.

[sltm1]

Damn, that bbl pitting almost makes it look like an original...you sure it's a repro?

[Ricklin]

Yes, I do agree Truthtellers.

I sell for a living and i don't ever overstate the condition of an item. I'm always conservative when stating condition.

From the pic the cylinder will clean up, the bore however is another story, I would not call it "good"

[TruthTellers]

I doubt that I'm not going to have any success with getting a refund, so I'm just going to take a Scorched Earth approach with the seller. I won't go into details, but let's just say when I'm wronged and the seller won't make it right, I play a zero sum game.

The only good news is that the first inch or so of the barrel isn't bad, so I could chop it to 2 inches and with an 1862, that would make for a very short barrel cap and ball revolver and it being on the 1849 frame in .36 caliber would make for perhaps the best concealed carry percussion revolver out there. I'll post pics and a review if I do this.

I can also get a new 6.5 inch barrel and for the price of a new 1862, I'll have the sewer pipe 2 inch barrel and the 6.5 inch too.

So I'll still get something, the seller a negative review, and me things to entertain myself with when I see more people complain about him and his poopy business.

BTW, he is an FFL, so can I file a complaint with the agency that oversees FFL's?

[Ricklin]

I'm with you Truthtellers. Zero sum game.

I once purchased a computer many years ago for which the seller claimed the memory was upgradeable to Y when it was only upgradeable to X.
That seller not only sold me the computer, but also sold the Addl. memory for said computer.
I even brought him in a statement from the manufacturer of the "mother" board stating what I had discovered when trying to upgrade it.
I was pretty ticked off as he lied to me, and refused to make it right.

My wife, and my son and I took shifts picketing his store. My son even made signs that he hung on his dog like a sandwich board that said my computer is a dog.
We picketed for only a day or two. The store owner called and asked that he be allowed to make it right, and he did so.

Funny we heard about that little picketing deal for years. Everybody in town remembered the dog and the kid, both with signs.

In fact we mended our fences and I continued to do business with them for years.
I made sure to let those who asked or knew about it that he did indeed make the deal right.

[Hawg]

Shoot it first. I'm betting it will shoot just fine.

[sltm1]

2 things, actually 3, 1)I'm sure Hawg I correct that gun will shoot fine 2) Changing the bolt, or just tightening the spring screw will tighten the cylinder play. 3) NEVER buy a gun off GB or Ebay without looking at the sellers rating by the buyers !!! I've dealt on GB selling (and buying ) for over a dozen years, offer no returns and have a 100 percent satisfactory rating, some folks can be trusted and some can't.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by sltm1

2 things, actually 3, 1)I'm sure Hawg I correct that gun will shoot fine 2) Changing the bolt, or just tightening the spring screw will tighten the cylinder play. 3) NEVER buy a gun off GB or Ebay without looking at the sellers rating by the buyers !!! I've dealt on GB selling (and buying ) for over a dozen years, offer no returns and have a 100 percent satisfactory rating, some folks can be trusted and some can't.

His rating was fine, the only negative ones he had were stuff that sold in store before an auction ended. That's happened to lots of sellers.

But the fact is that he sold a gun with a bore described as good when it was actually pitted to hell and refused to do a return and refund stating "all sales are final" after I received it in the mail when that wasn't stated in the item description or terms.

Unless the gun was made pre-1899, you can't give if a "good" condition if the bore looks like it's been stored for 10 years with a wet towel in it.