Shooting Model 1885 from the bench

4570Tom · August 18, 2017, 05:34 PM

I have a Browning model 1885. I am wondering what is the best way to support the forend on this type of rifle when shooting from the bench. Do you rest the forend directly on the shooting bag, or do you have your hand in between the bag and the forend? Or is there a better way?. Thanks.

NoSecondBest · August 18, 2017, 07:13 PM

I've been shooting the 45-70 in both the 1885 model and a Win 86 lever gun. I'll tell you this: you can send your group all over the target simply by applying varying cheek pressure on the stock while shooting, moving the gun fore and aft on the bags, and moving your hand around in different positions. I can actually choose to shoot sub 1moa groups with my gun and then move the entire group 3-4" simply with cheek pressure or moving the gun on the rest. Most of the time it doesn't move anywhere near that far, I just did it to see how much change I could make with a bit of effort....it's a lot. I spend a lot of bench time working up different loads simply because I find that an interesting hobby. The caliber itself is very easy to load for, most everything shoots good and some loads are outstanding. For absolute best accuracy here's what you want to do: Sit up as straight as possible. I know guys who shoot standing to accomplish this. Put as little pressure as possible on the stock while shooting. The "bridge" design of these types of guns allow a lot of flex in the gun where a solid one piece stock doesn't do this. Rest your hand under the forearm and put your hand on the bag. Get a good rest on the butt stock rather than trying to hold it still. I don't know what bullet and powder you're using now, but the heavier bullets always shoot better in my guns...and I have several of them. I find that I get the best accuracy with bullets starting at 400g and powder charges that shoot the bullet at 1300-1550fps. Sounds slow, but I have yet to recover even one bullet from a deer regardless of the angle or distance. If you want flat, get a fast bottle neck cartridge. Remember this: the gun is flexible. Same for the lever guns. Pressure on stock = moving POI.

flashhole · August 19, 2017, 09:18 PM

Good advice. I find the same thing, small changes in position and hold can make a big difference in your ability to shoot the gun accurately and repeatably. Over the last year I've been using bipods with a rear bag more than my Bull's Bag rest with a rear bag and find this technique more repeatable. Seems to take some of the variables out of the equation.

mete · August 20, 2017, 03:57 AM

Unlike many rifles the forend is not connected to the barrel . The 1885 has a hanger fastened to the front of the receiver and that supports the forend , the barrel is then free floating .
My 45-70 forend moved when I got it and that was due to inspection numbers on the front of the receiver preventing the hanger from seating firmly against the receiver . I corrected that before I ever shot it so I don't know how much effect it had but such parts should not wiggle !!
As a hunting rifle I didn't worry about ultimate accuracy , 1"groups [easily found ] were all I needed . The barrel has been cut to 22" and with that cartridge there is really no loss of velocity. A 1x4 scope provides all that I need for woods hunting .Deer have never complained !

4EVERM-14 · August 20, 2017, 02:04 PM

Support the barrel at the sweet spot. Find this by holding the rifle by the buttstock with the barrel pointing down. Tap the barrel with a wooden rod at one inch intervals starting below the forend and going towards the muzzle. The barrel will ring when tapped. At a unspecified spot there will be a dull thud. That is the sweet spot. Mark the spot and support the rifle at that point. Sounds goofy but try it.

Paul B. · August 20, 2017, 05:01 PM

I have a Browning B-78 30-06 which is pretty much the same thing and accuracy has been better than I expected. Normally my single loaders are Ruger #1's in various configurations and the best results from the bench came from having the front bag literally hard up against the front of the receiver and trigger guard/lever. You might give that a try.
Paul B.

flashhole · August 20, 2017, 05:12 PM

"Support the barrel at the sweet spot. Find this by holding the rifle by the buttstock with the barrel pointing down. Tap the barrel with a wooden rod at one inch intervals starting below the forend and going towards the muzzle. The barrel will ring when tapped. At a unspecified spot there will be a dull thud. That is the sweet spot. Mark the spot and support the rifle at that point. Sounds goofy but try it."

In all my years of owning rifles and shooting I have never heard of this. Any more detail you can share?
_____

4EVERM-14 · August 21, 2017, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashhole

"Support the barrel at the sweet spot. Find this by holding the rifle by the buttstock with the barrel pointing down. Tap the barrel with a wooden rod at one inch intervals starting below the forend and going towards the muzzle. The barrel will ring when tapped. At a unspecified spot there will be a dull thud. That is the sweet spot. Mark the spot and support the rifle at that point. Sounds goofy but try it."

In all my years of owning rifles and shooting I have never heard of this. Any more detail you can share?
_____

I shoot from cross sticks. This idea was brought to me by another BPCR shooter. The dead spot in the barrel is the area around which the rest of the barrel vibrates during firing. Using that spot as support does not alter the barrels normal vibrations. Supporting the barrel in other spots can change the barrel frequency. YMMV.

Jim Watson · August 21, 2017, 06:18 PM

Assuming your Browning is a BPCR version, 99% of the ones I have seen shot were rested on the barrel. Including mine. The location can be found by David's mallet trick or by (gasp) shooting the gun supported at different locations and (wow) looking at the targets. Either way, mark the spot with a strip of tape. There are even bench sticks so you can shoot with the same support as with "buffalo sticks" in prone.

Scorch · August 21, 2017, 08:43 PM

Quote:

I am wondering what is the best way to support the forend on this type of rifle when shooting from the bench

Put the bag where the forearm meets the receiver.

T. O'Heir · August 22, 2017, 12:09 PM

"...hand in between the bag and the forend..." Absolutely not. Put the rifle on the sand bag just in front of the receiver.
Cross sticks are for the field, not the range.

NoSecondBest · August 22, 2017, 12:16 PM

Quote:

"...hand in between the bag and the forend..." Absolutely not. Put the rifle on the sand bag just in front of the receiver.

Yeah, what do I know about shooting a High Wall in 45-70?
https://thefiringline.com/forums/att...4&d=1331665966
Fired at my range of 114yds....bench to backstop.

ocharry · August 22, 2017, 01:47 PM

i have been shooting BPCG for a loong time,,and i have 4 hiwalls and 2, 74 sharps and a 75 sharps

i am not a great shooter but i do have some desk art and some wall art from the range

if you listen to what NoSecondBest has told you it WILL come together for you

these hiwall guns are VERY pressure sensitive,,,to much head pressure on the stock,,,to much barrel pressure,,,it all comes down to shooting and finding the magic sweet spot,,,that means pressure you are putting down on the gun

my meachum gun with 34" barrel likes the cross sticks about 2-2 1/2" in front of the forearm,,,my browning 30" barrel likes them right in front of the forearm,,,but it is shorter and has a hex to round barrel and that cut makes the harmonics way different

also the twist of the rifling will sometimes dictate what weight bullet the gun likes,,,most of the big guns 45 cal. have a 1-18 twist,,,and they like the heavier bullets 500-550gr,,,not always but most times

i have a browning traditional hunter little lighter gun but still a hiwall,,it has a 1-20 twist,,,about 425gr bullet is where accuracy starts going away,,it really likes the 380gr small gov. bullet

i will add that if you are going to shoot from the bench and you are going to use bags for support,,,,put you hand on the forearm just like you would be shooting the gun and put you hand on the bag for support,,,ie,,,bag,,hand ,,gun,,,,and try and keep the head to stock pressure the same shot to shot,,,,it will as NoSecondBest has said "make a big difference",,,,you will see the difference

when it all comes together your group should be in a circle,,,,stringing vertical or horizontal is telling you something,,,,,"hey i dont really like this you need to change something"

just some thought and my .02

ocharry

flashhole · August 22, 2017, 03:37 PM

"Yeah, what do I know about shooting a High Wall in 45-70?"

One hit and six distant misses.

NoSecondBest · August 22, 2017, 05:55 PM

Quote:

One hit and six distant misses.

I guess you can call them misses. I call them groups. The last shot was where I turned the scope (Leupold) back to where I started and it ended up where I started. Groups are groups, doesn't matter where they hit, it's about how well they group. I spend a lot of time at the bench and it's paid off over the years. Good notes, good observations, and listening to those in the know.
Note: that scope is so repeatable I could sign my name with it.

flashhole · August 22, 2017, 08:37 PM

Lighten up dude. It was a joke.

August 19, 2017, 09:18 PM	#3
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Good advice. I find the same thing, small changes in position and hold can make a big difference in your ability to shoot the gun accurately and repeatably. Over the last year I've been using bipods with a rear bag more than my Bull's Bag rest with a rear bag and find this technique more repeatable. Seems to take some of the variables out of the equation. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

August 20, 2017, 03:57 AM	#4
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Unlike many rifles the forend is not connected to the barrel . The 1885 has a hanger fastened to the front of the receiver and that supports the forend , the barrel is then free floating . My 45-70 forend moved when I got it and that was due to inspection numbers on the front of the receiver preventing the hanger from seating firmly against the receiver . I corrected that before I ever shot it so I don't know how much effect it had but such parts should not wiggle !! As a hunting rifle I didn't worry about ultimate accuracy , 1"groups [easily found ] were all I needed . The barrel has been cut to 22" and with that cartridge there is really no loss of velocity. A 1x4 scope provides all that I need for woods hunting .Deer have never complained ! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

August 20, 2017, 02:04 PM	#5
4EVERM-14 Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2006 Location: Pennsy Posts: 720	Support the barrel at the sweet spot. Find this by holding the rifle by the buttstock with the barrel pointing down. Tap the barrel with a wooden rod at one inch intervals starting below the forend and going towards the muzzle. The barrel will ring when tapped. At a unspecified spot there will be a dull thud. That is the sweet spot. Mark the spot and support the rifle at that point. Sounds goofy but try it. __________________ David NRA Benefactor Member Distinguished Rifleman #731 Presidents 100

August 20, 2017, 05:01 PM	#6
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	I have a Browning B-78 30-06 which is pretty much the same thing and accuracy has been better than I expected. Normally my single loaders are Ruger #1's in various configurations and the best results from the bench came from having the front bag literally hard up against the front of the receiver and trigger guard/lever. You might give that a try. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

August 20, 2017, 05:12 PM	#7
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	"Support the barrel at the sweet spot. Find this by holding the rifle by the buttstock with the barrel pointing down. Tap the barrel with a wooden rod at one inch intervals starting below the forend and going towards the muzzle. The barrel will ring when tapped. At a unspecified spot there will be a dull thud. That is the sweet spot. Mark the spot and support the rifle at that point. Sounds goofy but try it." In all my years of owning rifles and shooting I have never heard of this. Any more detail you can share? _____ __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

August 18, 2017, 05:34 PM	#1
4570Tom Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 26	Shooting Model 1885 from the bench I have a Browning model 1885. I am wondering what is the best way to support the forend on this type of rifle when shooting from the bench. Do you rest the forend directly on the shooting bag, or do you have your hand in between the bag and the forend? Or is there a better way?. Thanks.

August 18, 2017, 07:13 PM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	I've been shooting the 45-70 in both the 1885 model and a Win 86 lever gun. I'll tell you this: you can send your group all over the target simply by applying varying cheek pressure on the stock while shooting, moving the gun fore and aft on the bags, and moving your hand around in different positions. I can actually choose to shoot sub 1moa groups with my gun and then move the entire group 3-4" simply with cheek pressure or moving the gun on the rest. Most of the time it doesn't move anywhere near that far, I just did it to see how much change I could make with a bit of effort....it's a lot. I spend a lot of bench time working up different loads simply because I find that an interesting hobby. The caliber itself is very easy to load for, most everything shoots good and some loads are outstanding. For absolute best accuracy here's what you want to do: Sit up as straight as possible. I know guys who shoot standing to accomplish this. Put as little pressure as possible on the stock while shooting. The "bridge" design of these types of guns allow a lot of flex in the gun where a solid one piece stock doesn't do this. Rest your hand under the forearm and put your hand on the bag. Get a good rest on the butt stock rather than trying to hold it still. I don't know what bullet and powder you're using now, but the heavier bullets always shoot better in my guns...and I have several of them. I find that I get the best accuracy with bullets starting at 400g and powder charges that shoot the bullet at 1300-1550fps. Sounds slow, but I have yet to recover even one bullet from a deer regardless of the angle or distance. If you want flat, get a fast bottle neck cartridge. Remember this: the gun is flexible. Same for the lever guns. Pressure on stock = moving POI.

August 21, 2017, 06:18 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Assuming your Browning is a BPCR version, 99% of the ones I have seen shot were rested on the barrel. Including mine. The location can be found by David's mallet trick or by (gasp) shooting the gun supported at different locations and (wow) looking at the targets. Either way, mark the spot with a strip of tape. There are even bench sticks so you can shoot with the same support as with "buffalo sticks" in prone.

August 22, 2017, 12:09 PM	#11
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...hand in between the bag and the forend..." Absolutely not. Put the rifle on the sand bag just in front of the receiver. Cross sticks are for the field, not the range. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 22, 2017, 01:47 PM	#13
ocharry Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Posts: 685	i have been shooting BPCG for a loong time,,and i have 4 hiwalls and 2, 74 sharps and a 75 sharps i am not a great shooter but i do have some desk art and some wall art from the range if you listen to what NoSecondBest has told you it WILL come together for you these hiwall guns are VERY pressure sensitive,,,to much head pressure on the stock,,,to much barrel pressure,,,it all comes down to shooting and finding the magic sweet spot,,,that means pressure you are putting down on the gun my meachum gun with 34" barrel likes the cross sticks about 2-2 1/2" in front of the forearm,,,my browning 30" barrel likes them right in front of the forearm,,,but it is shorter and has a hex to round barrel and that cut makes the harmonics way different also the twist of the rifling will sometimes dictate what weight bullet the gun likes,,,most of the big guns 45 cal. have a 1-18 twist,,,and they like the heavier bullets 500-550gr,,,not always but most times i have a browning traditional hunter little lighter gun but still a hiwall,,it has a 1-20 twist,,,about 425gr bullet is where accuracy starts going away,,it really likes the 380gr small gov. bullet i will add that if you are going to shoot from the bench and you are going to use bags for support,,,,put you hand on the forearm just like you would be shooting the gun and put you hand on the bag for support,,,ie,,,bag,,hand ,,gun,,,,and try and keep the head to stock pressure the same shot to shot,,,,it will as NoSecondBest has said "make a big difference",,,,you will see the difference when it all comes together your group should be in a circle,,,,stringing vertical or horizontal is telling you something,,,,,"hey i dont really like this you need to change something" just some thought and my .02 ocharry __________________ The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

August 22, 2017, 03:37 PM	#14
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	"Yeah, what do I know about shooting a High Wall in 45-70?" One hit and six distant misses. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

August 22, 2017, 08:37 PM	#16
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Lighten up dude. It was a joke. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?