On Duty: The Federal HST 45ACP

Mr.RevolverGuy · July 20, 2019, 10:32 PM

Federal HST On The Front Line
Today we are testing the preferred 45ACP ammunition of the local law enforcement community.

Federal Premium 45ACP HST 230gr ammunition.
This test provides valuable information, chronograph data, accuracy data, penetration and expansion data.

Test Pistols
These pistols are what the local LEO community carries for on duty and off duty.
Glock 30

Glock21

Video
https://youtu.be/H1IGtk1U5nw
Guest Pistol
Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan .454

Slow Motion Surprise
Pay close attention to the slow motion
Closing
In closing it seems for the federal HST to perform flawlessly it needs to be driven to a velocity of 800 to 850fps.

OhioGuy · July 21, 2019, 06:20 AM

Nice review! I like your "Day at the Range" logo

Very well done video, thanks for sharing.

Mr.RevolverGuy · July 21, 2019, 06:52 AM

Thank you, this was fun with surprising results

zplinker · July 21, 2019, 08:06 AM

Interesting, and it duplicates what I've seen and done. A similar test, using milk jugs full of water, had a nice .45 caliber hole in and out of the first jug, then the second jug exploded. A comment was, 'oh, its HOSTAGE ammo...you can shoot right through the hostage, to get the bad guy'! Bullet performance is always affected by velocity, and at about 1100 fps, things actually work like I think they should. Hard to beat a Speer Gold Dot, loaded to that level. Gelatin, jugs, results are very similar, but water tends to cause jackets to shed.

Mr.RevolverGuy · July 21, 2019, 08:10 AM

Zplinker are you saying you have a 45ACP round 230gr that reaches 1100 feet per second?

zplinker · July 21, 2019, 08:45 AM

Not hardly! And I would never carry 230 gr. .45 ammo for serious business. The 185 gr. +P load does about everything better, given proper bullet construction, like the Speer Gold Dot.

Mr.RevolverGuy · July 21, 2019, 09:02 AM

I say use what you shoot best. I love the feel of the 230gr recoil impulse more so than than the 185gr +p. A well placed shot is much better than a fast miss. The recoil impulse of the 185gr +p feels much like the 40S&W to me.

Thanks zplinker keep shooting and keep all rounds on target.

TxFlyFish · July 21, 2019, 01:42 PM

Great vid very informative! Do we know the failure point of HST? I want to see what happens when you push it very fast

Mr.RevolverGuy · July 21, 2019, 02:17 PM

Probably breaks apart leaving fragments.

Though I have to ask in self defense is there such a thing as failure WHEN a bullet fragments? I have recently asked myself this question because with a friend as a Doctor in the emergency room. He says his worst patient are ones stabbed and ones shot where the bullet has fragmented and they have to go looking for the pieces. Things that make you go Hmmm.

Hey I have a friend with a pistol caliber carbine in 45acp maybe the extra barrel length will add to the velocity and push the bullet to fragmentation.

TxFlyFish · July 21, 2019, 02:48 PM

If HST is resilient and hangs on to the core for its dear life it could be a very useful hunting round. Gold dot for instance looks like a meteor when pushed beyond its limit...the jacket peels all the way back like a banana and tucks in behind the core

Mr.RevolverGuy · July 21, 2019, 03:37 PM

I believe the HST might perform the same. I know the Speer Gold Dot is a bonded bullet and I believe the HST is also --- only one way to tell TEST IT!

Ben Dover · July 21, 2019, 04:09 PM

Were those 230 HST rounds +P????

Mr.RevolverGuy · July 21, 2019, 04:19 PM

No they are not +P

shooter1911 · July 22, 2019, 04:29 PM

Thanks, that was an interesting video. 45 HSTs are not actually bonded, but they emulate the effects of a bonded bullet if that makes sense. HST has become my carry ammo in my 1911s, and M&P 45C, because they always expand in 4" barrels or more, are very accurate, and highly reliable in anything I carry. They also have a pretty good street reputation.

smee78 · July 22, 2019, 06:42 PM

Thanks for the review, I always enjoy seeing how well or not a personal defense round performs and from different firearms.

Zplinker said "And I would never carry 230 gr. .45 ammo for serious business."...….really?
You know Speer makes a 45 ACP - 230 Grain JHP - Speer Gold Dot LE.

I guess I should only use it for non serious business???

zplinker · July 22, 2019, 06:46 PM

Yes, Mr. Revolver Guy, I do tend to keep them in the middle, as recorded by a state PPC match, duty gun, with a 595/600. And that with a Glock 22, while the guys running the league were carrying Beretta's...'Gods' Gun'...but not a one used their real duty gun for the competition.

Oh well, to each his own, 'run what you brung'. Whatever trips your trigger. But do practice!

TunnelRat · July 22, 2019, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zplinker

Yes, Mr. Revolver Guy, I do tend to keep them in the middle, as recorded by a state PPC match, duty gun, with a 595/600.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Ben Dover · July 22, 2019, 07:04 PM

Gel tests that I've seen seem to indicate that 230 grain +P significantly enhances performance.

TunnelRat · July 22, 2019, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Dover

Gel tests that I've seen seem to indicate that 230 grain +P significantly enhances performance.

It does?

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

SATRP · July 23, 2019, 09:53 AM

+P, with slight deviation, does not offer significant velocity advantage.

HST LE ammo is excellent stuff.

The .45 ACP does not need tricks and gimmicks to work.

18DAI · July 23, 2019, 02:53 PM

Excellent video and information! Thanks for posting it.

Yours is the 3rd video I have observed where HST 230 grain 45 failed when shot from a sub 4 inch barrel. That is why I do not use it in my short barrel 45 carry guns.

While HST recieves rave reviews and people point to how many agencies around the country are switching to it for duty ammo, I am not convinced that price point doesn't have more to do with that - than performance.

I will stick with RA45T. It has been killing bugs dead. For decades.

Regards 18DAI

fastbolt · July 23, 2019, 05:12 PM

Okay, notwithstanding that synthetic gel might offer some differences when compared to organic gel blocks ...

A couple of the other major ammo makers who offer their own top end LE loads have reportedly told customers that their JHP designs are optimized to offer the potential for expansion down into the low 700's (depending, obviously, on the actual conditions encountered outside a lab, meaning shooting non-homogeneous gel blocks of any formula

).

However, other "informal" tests have shown that even when using 3"-3.3"-3.6" .45's (shorter than the 3.78" of the G30/30S barrel) the 230gr standard HST can still expand in bare and "4 layer denim covered" (unknown weight of denim layers) synthetic gel blocks.

Randomly grabbed:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/a...-self-defense/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q28V7xQoZjc

After having seen how older revisions of the 230gr standard & +P SXT/T-Series loads performed when fired out of my 3.25" CS45, (test-shots of 802 & 839fps, respectively) I'm not at all concerned about using the assortment of RA45T, Golden Sabre or HST in my 3.25" & 3.75" short-barreled .45's.

Personally, I'm more interested in confirming how any particular load feeds & functions in my littlest .45's, especially when shooting 1-handed in "less than ideal" conditions, like rapid shot strings fired 1-handed from a close retention, hip level grip, and while moving within close range.

For me, the harder recoiling RA45SXT & RA45T, and the even harder recoiling RASXTP & RA45TP, offer some really brisk felt recoil in my small CS45 compared to other loads that aren't pushing the bullets quite so fast. I rather like the somewhat mellow felt recoil of the Golden Sabre load in my littlest .45, myself. Accurate, low flash signature, offers reliable functioning and it's accumulated a good record among LE users ... but it may not exactly be the cleanest burning load in the stable.

It's been so long since I've used the 230gr Gold Dot in my CS45 that I can't remember much of it, other than the felt recoil didn't seem bad, at all. I just don't have much of it left, as it's not often seen on store shelves in my general area, and it's not the most affordable load when it is on the shelves, and I haven't seen it being used by many agencies in my general area.

Even though the Speer 230gr GDHP is on the current state LE ammo contract, it's still more expensive than the Federal HST standard pressure load, so anyone wanting to make large orders my still find the HST to be the better deal. The difference may seem relatively minor at just less than sixty dollars per 1000rd case, but that can add up if you're going through a lot of shooters often enough.
Fed-P45HST2/1000rds/$0.3298rd/$329.80 per case
Speer CCI-53966/1000rds/$0.3897rd/$389.70 per case

wild cat mccane · July 24, 2019, 08:20 AM

CCI/Speer and Federal are both owned by Vista Outdoors--which owns most US ammo too. ATK spun off ammunition to a sister company Vista and is the current ammo maker of Lake City Ammunition through Northrop Grumman. Lake City provides the DOD with all ammunition. This makes Vista the largest ammunition maker in the US, though Vista/ATK were also previously as they are the same corporation.

America capitalism--basically all one big corporation you didn't know was the same company

On to bullet failure:

You don't want bullets to fail by fragmenting or shedding it's copper jacket. It happens fast and you end up with a shallow failure (the good stuff of hollow points) and basically are left with an FMJ bullet after. So it's the worst of both worlds.

fastbolt · July 24, 2019, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

CCI/Speer and Federal are both owned by Vista Outdoors--...

Yes, they are both under Vista, and were ATK. They're both different companies and make different bullets/lines, though.

T. O'Heir · July 24, 2019, 01:14 PM

The local law enforcement community doesn't get a choice of ammo. They use what the higher ups buy for 'em. Just like the pistol they get issued. Which is highly unlikely to be a .45 ACP. Absolutely not a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .454.
"...what the local LEO community carries..." The Ohio State Highway Patrol carry a SIG in .40 S&W. The Columbus Police Department has carried an S&W M&P 9mm since 2017. No mention of who got the ammo contract for either.

July 20, 2019, 10:32 PM	#1
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	On Duty: The Federal HST 45ACP Federal HST On The Front Line Today we are testing the preferred 45ACP ammunition of the local law enforcement community. Federal Premium 45ACP HST 230gr ammunition. This test provides valuable information, chronograph data, accuracy data, penetration and expansion data. Test Pistols These pistols are what the local LEO community carries for on duty and off duty. Glock 30 Glock21 Video https://youtu.be/H1IGtk1U5nw Guest Pistol Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan .454 Slow Motion Surprise Pay close attention to the slow motion Closing In closing it seems for the federal HST to perform flawlessly it needs to be driven to a velocity of 800 to 850fps. __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.

July 21, 2019, 06:52 AM	#3
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	Thank you, this was fun with surprising results __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.

July 21, 2019, 08:10 AM	#5
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	Zplinker are you saying you have a 45ACP round 230gr that reaches 1100 feet per second? __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.

July 21, 2019, 09:02 AM	#7
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	I say use what you shoot best. I love the feel of the 230gr recoil impulse more so than than the 185gr +p. A well placed shot is much better than a fast miss. The recoil impulse of the 185gr +p feels much like the 40S&W to me. Thanks zplinker keep shooting and keep all rounds on target. __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.

July 21, 2019, 02:17 PM	#9
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	Probably breaks apart leaving fragments. Though I have to ask in self defense is there such a thing as failure WHEN a bullet fragments? I have recently asked myself this question because with a friend as a Doctor in the emergency room. He says his worst patient are ones stabbed and ones shot where the bullet has fragmented and they have to go looking for the pieces. Things that make you go Hmmm. Hey I have a friend with a pistol caliber carbine in 45acp maybe the extra barrel length will add to the velocity and push the bullet to fragmentation. __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.

July 21, 2019, 06:20 AM	#2
OhioGuy Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2016 Posts: 1,089	Nice review! I like your "Day at the Range" logo Very well done video, thanks for sharing.

July 21, 2019, 08:06 AM	#4
zplinker Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2011 Location: way out here Posts: 262	Interesting, and it duplicates what I've seen and done. A similar test, using milk jugs full of water, had a nice .45 caliber hole in and out of the first jug, then the second jug exploded. A comment was, 'oh, its HOSTAGE ammo...you can shoot right through the hostage, to get the bad guy'! Bullet performance is always affected by velocity, and at about 1100 fps, things actually work like I think they should. Hard to beat a Speer Gold Dot, loaded to that level. Gelatin, jugs, results are very similar, but water tends to cause jackets to shed.

July 21, 2019, 08:45 AM	#6
zplinker Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2011 Location: way out here Posts: 262	Not hardly! And I would never carry 230 gr. .45 ammo for serious business. The 185 gr. +P load does about everything better, given proper bullet construction, like the Speer Gold Dot.

July 21, 2019, 01:42 PM	#8
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	Great vid very informative! Do we know the failure point of HST? I want to see what happens when you push it very fast

July 21, 2019, 02:48 PM	#10
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	If HST is resilient and hangs on to the core for its dear life it could be a very useful hunting round. Gold dot for instance looks like a meteor when pushed beyond its limit...the jacket peels all the way back like a banana and tucks in behind the core

July 21, 2019, 03:37 PM	#11
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	I believe the HST might perform the same. I know the Speer Gold Dot is a bonded bullet and I believe the HST is also --- only one way to tell TEST IT! __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.

July 21, 2019, 04:09 PM	#12
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	Were those 230 HST rounds +P???? __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

July 21, 2019, 04:19 PM	#13
Mr.RevolverGuy Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 991	No they are not +P __________________ Mr.Revolverguy http://www.dayattherange.com Firearms Reviewed and Reported On: An unbiased opinion with real world use.

July 22, 2019, 04:29 PM	#14
shooter1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: DFW Area Posts: 265	Thanks, that was an interesting video. 45 HSTs are not actually bonded, but they emulate the effects of a bonded bullet if that makes sense. HST has become my carry ammo in my 1911s, and M&P 45C, because they always expand in 4" barrels or more, are very accurate, and highly reliable in anything I carry. They also have a pretty good street reputation.

July 22, 2019, 06:42 PM	#15
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	Thanks for the review, I always enjoy seeing how well or not a personal defense round performs and from different firearms. Zplinker said "And I would never carry 230 gr. .45 ammo for serious business."...….really? You know Speer makes a 45 ACP - 230 Grain JHP - Speer Gold Dot LE. I guess I should only use it for non serious business??? __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

July 22, 2019, 06:46 PM	#16
zplinker Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2011 Location: way out here Posts: 262	Yes, Mr. Revolver Guy, I do tend to keep them in the middle, as recorded by a state PPC match, duty gun, with a 595/600. And that with a Glock 22, while the guys running the league were carrying Beretta's...'Gods' Gun'...but not a one used their real duty gun for the competition. Oh well, to each his own, 'run what you brung'. Whatever trips your trigger. But do practice!

July 22, 2019, 07:04 PM	#18
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	Gel tests that I've seen seem to indicate that 230 grain +P significantly enhances performance. __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

July 23, 2019, 09:53 AM	#20
SATRP Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2019 Posts: 108	+P, with slight deviation, does not offer significant velocity advantage. HST LE ammo is excellent stuff. The .45 ACP does not need tricks and gimmicks to work.

July 23, 2019, 02:53 PM	#21
18DAI Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 2,156	Excellent video and information! Thanks for posting it. Yours is the 3rd video I have observed where HST 230 grain 45 failed when shot from a sub 4 inch barrel. That is why I do not use it in my short barrel 45 carry guns. While HST recieves rave reviews and people point to how many agencies around the country are switching to it for duty ammo, I am not convinced that price point doesn't have more to do with that - than performance. I will stick with RA45T. It has been killing bugs dead. For decades. Regards 18DAI __________________ S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum. Everything you need in a revolver, and nothing you don't.

July 23, 2019, 05:12 PM	#22
fastbolt Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2002 Location: northern CA for a little while longer Posts: 1,931	Okay, notwithstanding that synthetic gel might offer some differences when compared to organic gel blocks ... A couple of the other major ammo makers who offer their own top end LE loads have reportedly told customers that their JHP designs are optimized to offer the potential for expansion down into the low 700's (depending, obviously, on the actual conditions encountered outside a lab, meaning shooting non-homogeneous gel blocks of any formula ). However, other "informal" tests have shown that even when using 3"-3.3"-3.6" .45's (shorter than the 3.78" of the G30/30S barrel) the 230gr standard HST can still expand in bare and "4 layer denim covered" (unknown weight of denim layers) synthetic gel blocks. Randomly grabbed: https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/a...-self-defense/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q28V7xQoZjc After having seen how older revisions of the 230gr standard & +P SXT/T-Series loads performed when fired out of my 3.25" CS45, (test-shots of 802 & 839fps, respectively) I'm not at all concerned about using the assortment of RA45T, Golden Sabre or HST in my 3.25" & 3.75" short-barreled .45's. Personally, I'm more interested in confirming how any particular load feeds & functions in my littlest .45's, especially when shooting 1-handed in "less than ideal" conditions, like rapid shot strings fired 1-handed from a close retention, hip level grip, and while moving within close range. For me, the harder recoiling RA45SXT & RA45T, and the even harder recoiling RASXTP & RA45TP, offer some really brisk felt recoil in my small CS45 compared to other loads that aren't pushing the bullets quite so fast. I rather like the somewhat mellow felt recoil of the Golden Sabre load in my littlest .45, myself. Accurate, low flash signature, offers reliable functioning and it's accumulated a good record among LE users ... but it may not exactly be the cleanest burning load in the stable. It's been so long since I've used the 230gr Gold Dot in my CS45 that I can't remember much of it, other than the felt recoil didn't seem bad, at all. I just don't have much of it left, as it's not often seen on store shelves in my general area, and it's not the most affordable load when it is on the shelves, and I haven't seen it being used by many agencies in my general area. Even though the Speer 230gr GDHP is on the current state LE ammo contract, it's still more expensive than the Federal HST standard pressure load, so anyone wanting to make large orders my still find the HST to be the better deal. The difference may seem relatively minor at just less than sixty dollars per 1000rd case, but that can add up if you're going through a lot of shooters often enough. Fed-P45HST2/1000rds/$0.3298rd/$329.80 per case Speer CCI-53966/1000rds/$0.3897rd/$389.70 per case __________________ Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer

July 24, 2019, 08:20 AM	#23
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,627	CCI/Speer and Federal are both owned by Vista Outdoors--which owns most US ammo too. ATK spun off ammunition to a sister company Vista and is the current ammo maker of Lake City Ammunition through Northrop Grumman. Lake City provides the DOD with all ammunition. This makes Vista the largest ammunition maker in the US, though Vista/ATK were also previously as they are the same corporation. America capitalism--basically all one big corporation you didn't know was the same company On to bullet failure: You don't want bullets to fail by fragmenting or shedding it's copper jacket. It happens fast and you end up with a shallow failure (the good stuff of hollow points) and basically are left with an FMJ bullet after. So it's the worst of both worlds. Last edited by wild cat mccane; July 24, 2019 at 08:29 AM.

July 24, 2019, 01:14 PM	#25
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The local law enforcement community doesn't get a choice of ammo. They use what the higher ups buy for 'em. Just like the pistol they get issued. Which is highly unlikely to be a .45 ACP. Absolutely not a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .454. "...what the local LEO community carries..." The Ohio State Highway Patrol carry a SIG in .40 S&W. The Columbus Police Department has carried an S&W M&P 9mm since 2017. No mention of who got the ammo contract for either. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!