The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 30, 2017, 09:47 PM   #51
rodwhaincamo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,206
A combo (hunting/fishing) license in TX runs $50-60 (reduced for seniors and veterans) which I don't feel is too expensive. However most hunting areas are leased which is all too often far too expensive for me. And game processing is a bit much at roughly $150-200.

Now the place my old boss leases also has/had $100 day hunting for deer. One could easily get two deer (AM/PM) if one chose to do that much work.
rodwhaincamo is offline  
Old October 30, 2017, 11:11 PM   #52
Pathfinder45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Posts: 2,830
This:
Quote:
but the government should quit dipping their hand in our pockets.
It's what's ending freedom. With every level of government hungry for more and more revenue, all the while having the power to create new taxes, we are steadily being reduced to the status of, "subject", rather than, "citizen". Thus, the role of the government to be the servant of the people has changed to be our master. If you make enough money, the system seems to work fine. But for those who can't, those people become more and more disenfranchised from the pursuit of happiness. I think it costs too much money for a fishing license that I hardly have the time to use. I went Deer hunting yesterday and it's the only day I will hunt this season. Didn't get a Deer, but I need to work. As a self-employed Tree Service contractor, I am licensed, bonded, insured, taxed, and regulated beyond what any American ought to have to deal with. When I do my taxes it cleans me out, every time. The only solution seems to be to make more money. But I have my limitations. So I don't really hunt anymore. I buy a hunting and fishing license and deer-tag every year and tell myself that this year will be different and I will devote some time for what I want to do. Then life and taxes interfere once again. Does it make me resentful? At times, very much so.
Pathfinder45 is offline  
Old October 31, 2017, 12:37 AM   #53
globemaster3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2006
Posts: 1,463
I contemplated a response to this thread for a couple days, as my thoughts on this topic are complex.

I learned hunting late... my family didn't hunt, but I was hugely interested from reading magazines and was taken on my first hunt in 6th grade. By graduation from high school, I was regularly duck, deer, and hog hunting with friends.

We cut our teeth on public land, as private land in central, east coat Florida seemed to be out of reach unless you were a blood relative. I learned to hike farther than anyone else to get to "untouched" areas... cross gator infested swamps in the process... hunt only the quota hunts for archery and modern gun. But beyond those week-long periods, I avoided the WMAs like the plague as the yahoos would descend in a sea of orange and it just wasn't worth the hassle. After joining the Air Force after college, my friends eventually gave up hunting the regular WMA we used as the cost in stolen stands, confrontations in the woods, and reports of people having their vehicles shot up in the remote areas we frequented made the risk seem too much. Add to that the low deer population, and it was a much celebrated event if any of us took a deer. Hogs were more common and our staple for hunting. The risk/benefit was not there.

Since then, it seems we as a society devolved to respect each other and each other's property even less. You hear it on this board from the landowners in Texas and other places defending their right not to allow any yahoo on their property to hunt, despite taking crop losses from hogs. Dirtbags shooting up landowners equipment, cattle, leaving fences open, etc is what their benevolence is greeted with. I've heard it first hand from farmers where I've been stationed, how they confronted strangers on their own property who claimed to have permission to hunt from Joe Bagadonuts. Problem is, Joe is not the landowner, and although the landowner gave Joe permission, Joe certainly did not have the right to extend that to others and give them copies of the gate key! In this case, the landowner was treated like a trespasser on his own property by the guy who didn't have legal permission to start with.

Also impacting access are companies like Base Camp Leasing. Private land that could have been available to the average Joe is now tied up in leases beyond the cost of most of the hunting demographic or going unhunted because the markup was too much. I perused these sites for the last 2 bases I was stationed and the costs were ludicrous. $3K/year for 60 acres and 1/2 of it flooded during heavy rains? $9K for 1 week of access to 1K acres? Uh, no thank you.

A local friend where I am currently stationed sought and received permission to hunt a section of land next to a major road last year. There was only about 15 acres of hardwoods in one square, right on the road, the rest of the 100+ acres was beans. He shot a monster buck on there with his bow. Fast forward and someone cued in the landowner to one of these sites. This year when he went back to obtain permission for the new season, they asked for some big $ for hunting permission. He couldn't afford it. All of that money really only got you 15 acres of huntable area!

The stories continue to get worse on public land every year. Stolen game cameras, stands, people using others stands defiantly... A coworker showed me a thread on a local hunting forum whereby posters were declaring that if you leave a game camera or stand in the woods more than 30 days, its public property and they would take it. State law certainly does not support that. But the number of folks who feel justified in that thought abounded on that board. Scary! What makes them think they have the right to take something they did not pay for just because its in the woods beyond an arbitrary timeline they unilaterally determined? It's not like good stands are that cheap! Thieves!

The industry has also warped what success in the field looks like. If you watch the hunting shows and read the hunting rags, you are a failure if you're not shooting B&C bucks! I must be some type of deviant because I am just as happy putting that 3 year old dry doe down as I would be shooting a buck, maybe even more so because I know the meat will be better. I was overjoyed when a friend invited me to Texas to cull hunt some does and spikes off their land a few years ago. Took my oldest down there and got her on her first deer. The fact it was a spike made absolutely no difference. We joyfully trimmed some older does and spikes and loved every minute of it and showed our extreme gratitude to my friend's family. By the industry standard, though, we must certainly be crazed for taking those does and spikes/forks!

The older I've become, the less time I have to hunt/fish. Pre-kids, wife, USAF: in college I bet I spent 2-3 days a week either fishing or hunting. Part of that is why I earned 2.45 GPA on my undergrad! Now I'm a father and still on active duty, and my time away from work to spend with the kids and fish/hunt is limited. I don't have the time to deal in the nonsense of having gear stolen, confronting jackwagons in my stands, etc. Not to mention, I want my kids to learn this sport in safety, and not in a sea of orange. I am blessed that I have private land to hunt on, and have taken all of the kids to the woods now for the last 2 seasons. However, when I did not have private access, I simply did not go. Too much hassle, safety concerns, and too little time.

I am not alone in this thought process. This sentiment is echoed by the majority of hunting folks I talk to on my base.

So although the numbers are declining, is that really the root cause, or just a symptom? We can talk the video game generation, but my kids are online and play games, but when the boat comes out or the camo and guns come out, they are arguing over who gets to go with Dad this time. I don't think that is the problem!

I hypothesize that the real problem is multifold: overhunted public land, lack of accessible private land, lack of respect for private property resulting in reduced private land access, a warped definition of success, lack of respect for others hunting public land... Add all this up, and who wants to bother with it!
__________________
NRA Life Member

"We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control."
globemaster3 is offline  
Old October 31, 2017, 07:31 AM   #54
Art Eatman
Staff
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
Hunting lease costs were a lot lower when the US population was some 200 million. Now? We're around 330 million. Economics 101 still applies, and landowners will always cater to the larger billfolds. Costs go up and poor folks go away.
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old October 31, 2017, 08:27 AM   #55
Ricklin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: SW Washington state
Posts: 1,560
I truly despise the modern "media"

Here in the Northwest the big deal on the news lately is a group of neanderthals who called themselves the kill em all boyz.

It is a group of locals mostly that have been poaching game for several years, both in OR and WA. The game law violations were truly egregious.

Truly disgusting individuals......

My issue? Virtually the entire media machine called this bunch "hunters"

Apparently the liberal media does not know the difference between a hunter and a poacher.
__________________
ricklin
Freedom is not free
Ricklin is offline  
Old December 29, 2017, 11:11 PM   #56
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,604
Quote:
've never seen the price of resident general hunting licenses(deer, turkey, small game) as being pricey, nor exorbitant, especially when compared to the price of equipment and other related hunting costs.
Quote:
I'm twenty three and I've stopped deer hunting because it is not practical. For the amount of money one must invest on licenses, proper clothing for the weather, ammunition, etc you can buy beef from the supermarket and still save money.
Quote:
And game processing is a bit much at roughly $150-200.
Most hunting equipment will last for years if maintained- my rifle has been killing deer since 1958 ..... it'll probably outlast me.... cold weather gear I already have, and so does everybody else that lives outside the South .... I already handload my ammo .... I see no sense in dropping north of $1/ shot on worse ammo than I can roll my ownself for 60 cents ... I'll be shooting it anyway- may as well bring back some meat ..... which we butcher ourselves .... The gas to get there, permits, and kids' clothes and boots (because they grow out of that stuff at amazing rates) are the things we have spent the most money on, over time .....
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 05:52 PM   #57
EIB0879
Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2016
Posts: 45
My son and daughter have lost interest in hunting but my daughter's boyfriend has expressed interest. He hasn't hunted before but at least he is comfortable with firearms. I'm hoping to draw a public land hog hunt with him otherwise I might have to pay for a hunt.

I hope my son eventually comes back around. My daughter likes to shoot but turned vegan.

I found myself without a lease for the first time in a long time this year. Clear cutting has deforested a lot of the area where we use to hunt. This year I hunted a small acreage that my sister and BIL own but it had been hunted heavily before I got out there this year.

I think there are a lot of barriers to beginning hunters as well as old farts like me that have hunted most of their life.

Here in Texas there is a lot of competition for public hunting and leases are pricey. I'm not ready to give it up yet but I'm not as enthusiastic as I use to be.
EIB0879 is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 08:35 PM   #58
3Crows
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2017
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 219
The decline in hunting and outdoorsmanship in general is the result of limited places to practice the sport(s) and a lack of interest amongst the Millennials and Gen Wifi in anything other than the wuh, wuh, wuh.
3Crows is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 09:21 PM   #59
xandi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2015
Location: ga
Posts: 321
It’s all about finding a place that hasn’t been hunted out, and not have some loud and clumsy walk up one you
A lot more work then some whom don’t already hunt want to do
xandi is offline  
Old December 31, 2017, 10:24 PM   #60
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,604
Quote:
The decline in hunting and outdoorsmanship in general is the result of limited places to practice the sport(s)
I don't know about everybody else's situations ..... but where I hunt, there is more game than ever in recorded history ..... and entire townships that used to have at least one family living on each section, most with a passel of kids ...... now completely devoid of people, and not a single house standing ..... there are now campgrounds available in every town in that county with public restrooms and water and electrical hookups, for a "free will donation" ..... it is a long way from major population centers, but I see that as a feature, not a bug.... there are places ..... they are just not convenient to Suburbia.

as for the decline in general outdoorsmanship, I do not think it is restricted to the newest generations ..... I remember camping as a kid in the 1970's..... we did not need electrical hook-ups ..... we were happy if there was a pit toilet and a handpump within walking distance ..... one of the first things us kids got detailed to do was find rocks to make the fire ring...... now the State, or the Feds, or private entitity running the "campground" provides water, sewer, electrical, hot showers ..... some have laundromats for pete's sake ..... every convenience provided for a price ..... for what it costs to "camp", one could rent a house in a small town in this state ..... "outdoorsmanship" always implied learning and practicing outdoor skills .... there is just not a lot of that going on these days ..... I watch these giant land yachts roll in, self level , an old fat guy totters out, hooks up his 50 amp cable, hooks up his water and his sewage, and then spends a few minutes figuring where his portable satellite TV dish gets best reception ..... goes back inside and you won't see him outdoors again until he comes outside to reverse the process when he leaves ..... and the check for my hunting licenses, tags and parks sticker funds this "campground" ......
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 12:22 AM   #61
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Western PA rainforests
Posts: 1,276
I really get annoyed at the fact that most campgrounds around me are really trailer parks with permanent "campers".
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp
GarandTd is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 12:30 AM   #62
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,604
Quote:
I really get annoyed at the fact that most campgrounds around me are really trailer parks with permanent "campers".
Probably cheaper than property taxes ...
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 12:42 AM   #63
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Western PA rainforests
Posts: 1,276
You're probably right, but I meant permanent trailers as opposed to permanent residents. When I camp, with or without my family, it is in a tent or under a tarp.
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp
GarandTd is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 12:07 PM   #64
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 4,113
It's not gun restrictions that are creating the decline in hunting in America, It's access to good hunting areas. Even tho the current Administration is very pro-gun, they also want to open up public land to big companies to exploit the resources while reducing access and habitat for hunting. Less good land to hunt, less hunters......period. Habitat and the access to it have always been tied directly to hunting. One reason those first settlers here in America were able to make it here. Lots of game with lots of habitat capable of continuing to sustain huntable populations of game animals. The fur industry practically sustained a large part of the country on it's own. Something that was long gone in Europe, even at the time of the first settlers. Lotta hunters out there now, with plenty of guns with no decent place to hunt....thus they don't hunt anymore. Want to sustain hunting for generations to come? Have enough land accessible to them with huntable populations of game for reasonable success, without them having to go deeply in debt to do it. Just like in "Field of Dreams", build it and they will come. Gotta have someplace for baseball players to go to play ball. Gotta have a place for hunters to hunt.
buck460XVR is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 12:47 PM   #65
3Crows
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2017
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 219
I would be okay with the Buffalo Commons concept if this new "national park" was a multi-use preserve and allowed hunting of game species as populations allowed.

Much of the center of the country has been emptying out, with some exceptional areas, since the Dust Bowl/Depression era. But, nonetheless, the empty ground belongs to somebody and usually it is no hunting allowed even if the owners live far away.

We may be the last of the Mohicans.

3C
3Crows is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 12:56 PM   #66
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,604
Quote:
I would be okay with the Buffalo Commons concept if this new "national park" was a multi-use preserve and allowed hunting of game species as populations allowed.

Much of the center of the country has been emptying out, with some exceptional areas, since the Dust Bowl/Depression era. But, nonetheless, the empty ground belongs to somebody and usually it is no hunting allowed even if the owners live far away.

We may be the last of the Mohicans.
I despise the "Buffalo Commons" idea. The Progressive eggheads that came up with it advocated forcible removal of the population of vast areas of the High Plains states, simply because they foresaw that the communities therein would not offer a good life to residents in the future. The people that live there think life is great.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 03:58 PM   #67
stuckinthe60s
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2017
Location: Va., Ct., Mo..
Posts: 270
hint to nra....stop filling your magazine full of tactical stuff.
__________________
Retired Military Aviation
Former Member Navy Shooting Team
Distinguished Pistol Shot
NSSA All American
stuckinthe60s is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 04:46 PM   #68
johnwilliamson062
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,996
I think it is TV hunting shows.
Kill a monster buck in 30 minutes.
Get all the newest gear.
Pay huge money to hunt on some managed lease.

This sets people up with unrealistic expectations.
Makes them think they need to spend minimum 1k on equipment to get their foot in the door.
And all the farmers who complain about deer ravaging their crops want $10+ an acre to lease for a week. Often quite a bit more than that.

I did not hunt this year or last because of difficulty finding land I could either camp on or was within an hour. I hunted public land on and off for a couple years before that before getting tired of fighting a crowd to see nothing.

I also have deer and coyotes in my backyard. Along with an unbelievable number of rabbits and squirrels. Problem is I am in an urban area.

Last edited by johnwilliamson062; January 1, 2018 at 04:56 PM.
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 05:18 PM   #69
zipspyder
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2017
Posts: 429
Hunt public land and see nothing but other hunters or pay hundreds/thousands of dollars to hunt on private land if you can even find someone to lease from. Tell me how the NRA is going to fix that instead of focusing lobbying dollars for your right town own 100 different AR rifles.
zipspyder is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 05:34 PM   #70
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,604
Quote:
hint to nra....stop filling your magazine full of tactical stuff. -stuckinthe60's
Pardon, Sir....... your Screen name is ......apt?

The "tactical stuff" is selling .... and some of it does work really well for hunting ......

Quote:
I think it is TV hunting shows.
Kill a monster buck in 30 minutes.
Get all the newest gear.
Pay huge money to hunt on some managed lease.

This sets people up with unrealistic expectations.
Makes them think they need to spend minimum 1k on equipment to get their foot in the door.
I believe that you are right about that. I saw some of those sentiments right here in this thread .....

Quote:
I'm twenty three and I've stopped deer hunting because it is not practical........
Hunting does take some money, true ..... but mostly it takes practical application of skills and planning .... it takes time, and preparation, and often times perseverance .... and not just in the sense of staying on stand when it's cold and you have not seen anything in hours .... sometimes you gotta knock on just one more door ........ Real hunters are the ones that know things won't resolve themselves in 30 minutes or less ..... sometimes problems just can't be solved successfully......

........... but one thing is fairly certain: you won't get any deer sitting on your couch watching somebody else hunt.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 05:36 PM   #71
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,604
Quote:
Tell me how the NRA is going to fix that instead of focusing lobbying dollars for your right town own 100 different AR rifles.
I can't. I don't think it's the NRA's or the Government's place to solve my problems ..... unless they are with the Government, in which case I'll take all the help I can get.


Do you think lobbying dollars will fix your access issues, Zip?
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 06:05 PM   #72
zipspyder
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2017
Posts: 429
Yes lobbying dollars can certainly fix/help with access issues unless you haven't been paying attention to what lobbying dollars can accomplish for the last few decades. NRA has great influence in many areas. This is not just yours or my problem. Its a whole culture onto itself that is hurting with the lack of new young hunters so it may take everybody private or government. And I'm not suggesting gov force public access from private land owners if that was inferred.
zipspyder is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 06:21 PM   #73
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,604
Quote:
This is not just yours or my problem. Its a whole culture onto itself that is hurting with the lack of new young hunters....
I tend to try to be part of the solution as I see it- therefore, I take kids hunting and shooting every chance I get.

If you think the problem is better solved with lobbying dollars from the NRA .... I'm sure you can find where to mail your check ....

Quote:
so it may take everybody private or government
I am generally opposed to having the various .gov's get further involved in anything .... there always string attached to their gifts, which were purchased with our money in the first place ....

Quote:
. And I'm not suggesting gov force public access from private land owners if that was inferred.
I did not take it that way .... if you did suggest such a ridiculous thing .... well, I'd rather not contemplate that .... it would make me think ill of you.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 06:30 PM   #74
zipspyder
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2017
Posts: 429
Lobbying is just a tool to be used. I never said it was THE answer. At this point it might take every organization and or local/federal government to turn it around. I'd welcome any help or input. Nobody likes it when outside resources get involved but sometimes it's necessary. If you think just us hunters that are left can turn it around well good luck with that. And that last quote was me clarifying that is not what I meant when I said gov. involvement. Think ill of me or not, I don't really care since we both want the same thing in the end.
zipspyder is offline  
Old January 1, 2018, 07:09 PM   #75
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 4,113
Government money can and does buy access to private lands for recreation by others. Government tax breaks for forest crop lands and conservation set asides not only contributes to habitat, but also provides public access to some of these areas. The Pittman-Robertson Act is another government tax that has helped habitat and access for many years. Recently tho, back in 2000, it was found that it's funds were being grossly mismanaged. Since then there have been recent legislation to make sure that doesn't happen. The most recent legislation having to do with the Pittman-Robertson Act is the Sportsmen’s Heritage And Recreational Enhancement Act of 2013, Title II: Target Practice and Marksmanship Training Support Act, which dictates states and the feds come up with the costs of acquiring land for, expanding, or constructing public shooting ranges. While this does not actually give more habitat or access to habitat, it does make it easier for hunters to become or stay proficient with their firearms. I for one, have always thought that "Use fees" for public land by hunters would promote the acquisition of more public land fro hunting, while keeping hunter access to specific areas to those willing to pay. Those fees should be nominal, such as $5-$10 annually per area.
buck460XVR is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11409 seconds with 8 queries