When buying an optic...

RoyalWe · February 9, 2016, 01:06 AM

When you go into a store with the intention of perusing and possibly buying an optic, what do you look for? The only thing I've found is really able to be discerned is general build quality (of materials used anyway) and the optic clarity. The biggest drawback is limited distances to try it, and of course the inability to tell really how well it will handle recoil or adjustments. What all do you look for otherwise? I'm not overly experienced in shopping for optics as I can't really afford them, and rarely have the need to shoot at distances that really require magnification I rather like red dots.

chris in va · February 9, 2016, 02:09 AM

I like red dots too.

If that is what you prefer, by all means get one. A fine 1-2moa dot is great, even past 100 yards.

As for scopes I have very limited experience, but I do look at eye relief distance, edge to edge clarity, finger adjustable turrets, mil dots and magnification. Fortunately Cabela's has dozens of scopes mounted on mock rifles to get a feel for what each has to offer.

Rancid · February 9, 2016, 07:28 AM

I first determine my budget and then I buy the best I can afford. In optics, you really get what you pay for.

wogpotter · February 9, 2016, 08:33 AM

Quality, followed by quality then supported by even more quality.

Look AT a scope as well as through it. Back off from the eyepiece & look at it from 18" away while facing a plain wall. Perfect is a sharp-edged circle surrounded by dead black. (You rarely find this) but every little "extra" "artifact" is a loss of quality indicator. the fewer the better.
Turn it backwards & look INTO it. look for baffling & so on now back off & look at the circle surrounds by black again.
If its a zoom, change the power & repeat.

g.willikers · February 9, 2016, 09:46 AM

When checking out a scope, begin by shaking it real hard, and repeatedly smacking it on the counter just to make sure it's solidly built.
That lets the clerk know they're dealing with an expert.

But seriously,
Thanks to modern manufacturing methods, the lower price scopes are quite good.
Checking the reviews at places like Amazon and Optics Planet can help narrow the field.
Probably the best advice is not get carried away with too much scope.
Get the shortest view for your needs possible.
A 4 or 6 power is probably all most folks need unless the scope if for long distance competition or something.

kilimanjaro · February 9, 2016, 10:45 AM

I look to see if the name 'Leupold' is on the scope, then consider the rest of it from there.

I'm tired of cheap scopes.

SamNavy · February 9, 2016, 10:58 AM

I agree with G.W... modern name-brand scopes are pretty good as long as you're realistic about their capabilities. No amount of instore "testing" is going to give you enough insight into real-world performance that would help you make a decision. I hate to say it, but the internet is a wealth of knowledge as long as you can filter the chaff through the wheat. I don't think I'd walk into a store to go "shopping". I'd do my homework online and go to a store to look at an actual unit, which I may have already decided is the one I'm going to buy anyways. If I did no actual homework beforehand, my dataset would only be the scopes/brands they had on display in that store... and a place like Dicks is going to have far less examples than a Cabelas... and might not have some of the very high-end stuff that a more "tactical" type place might carry. In a store, you're also going to be at the mercy of the salesguy and his level of knowledge to explain things to you.

My story... I bought an Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18 scope (on an enormous discount) as a dedicated range unit that I planned to ONLY use at 100yds for testing ammo and general marksmanship practice. For that purpose, it worked pretty good during the day, under an awning, in the morning coolness, off a bipod/rest, totally controlled situations... in fact, it worked damned good.

One weekend I left it on my 6.8spc AR15 and took it on a deer hunt. The first time I looked at an animal through it was laying prone, in direct sunlight, at about 250yds, on an 80* day... it was total bollocks. At 18x, it was unusable, at 10x I was still uncomfortable... I took the shot at 8x and said a prayer for the guys at Hornady for their SST bullets. When exposed to an actual "environment", my $150 scope revealed it's weaknesses.

For red-dots... everybody makes them nowadays in many different styles. Many scopes also come with illuminated reticles that you may like. The good news is that there are many good examples that aren't very expensive.

The big questions though... what kind of budget do you have, what kinds of guns, what are they going to be used for, how often, etc? Maybe we can give you a place to start with brand/models and pros/cons of different types of optics to narrow it down for you.

wogpotter · February 9, 2016, 11:05 AM

Do lots of homework on re-branding.
Many "store brand" are made in the exact same factory, to the exact same specs as the "big name" its far, far more common than you might think & the price differences can be staggering!

jmr40 · February 9, 2016, 12:29 PM

I have no use for dot sights, none have good glass, none work well in low light, none are very precise, and none are faster to use than a conventional scope on 1X. If you shoot up close this is what you need. You'll quickly forget dot sights.

http://swfa.com/Leupold-1-4x20-VX-1-...pe-P51851.aspx

Leupold is never a bad choice, Even the budget VX-1 line is better than most.

For a little less money the Burris FF-II and Redfield Revolution are good enough for most people.

There are a few 3-9X40 Zeiss Conquests still available even though they are sold under different names that are probably the best bargain now in optics.

http://www.eurooptic.com/zeiss-conqu...214609920.aspx

pwalston25 · February 9, 2016, 01:22 PM

I like all different types of optics. For hunting here recently been going with the vortex diamondback hp's. I started with Nikon, but I hate the bdc reticle with the huge circles under the main crosshairs. The only exception to that is the bdc600 and 800 in the AR scopes. They are nice. I went with vortex bdc because it uses little hash marks opposed to the circles from nikon. Bdc is a must for me because while hunting you don't have time to start calculating data and twisting turrets. I have yet to test the Vortex bdc but they have a really nice program for calculating your load and drop. The Nikon program was dead on all the way up to 500 yards. Thats the longest distance I had to shoot.

For combat/PD type carbines I love a red dot. I always look at battery life. Thats a big thing to me. I always try to stay with a 2 MOA dot also. 4 MOA is good up close but its very easy to shoot longer ranges (200-400 yards or so) with the 2 MOA dot. If you turn the brightness down to where you can barely see the dot it gets more precise also. Of course Aimpoint is awesome but the price is outrageous especially for the micro series. Been wanting to try out the MRO from Trijicon. I have a little Bushnell TRS-25 on a AAC Handi Rifle and its surprisingly a good optic. I have also had good luck with the Vortex Sparc II. Of course neither of those live up to the great battery life part. The primary arms advanced micro dot or some of the holosuns (pretty much same thing) do good in that area though for a good price.

As far as long range, I don't have much experience in that field. Limited places to shoot is the first thing. I would assume I would search for something in the first focal plane. Maybe 6-24 power or something similar. Not a fan of fixed power optics.

As with most things in life you usually get what you pay for. You can, however, get some good optics in the $200 price range that will suit you fine I think.

RoyalWe · February 9, 2016, 02:27 PM

Ok, so it certainly seems that it varies widely based on application. What I know as far as my preferences, from my experience, is low powered variables, 1.5-6x or so. It'll be going on my westernfield m72 30-30 so I don't need something that can see the ticks on a deer 400m away. As far budget goes, I've played around in the under 100-150 range and am sick of the general garbage quality they have, despite even having great reviews online. That being said, around $200 give or take is still probably the most I can realistically consider. Another question I'll posit, when it comes to the sales clerks, what would you ask them or what information would you want to get from them? I just hate when I think of questions after the time to ask them has passed, or worse not think of them at all.

wogpotter · February 9, 2016, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Ok, so it certainly seems that it varies widely based on application.

Yes, this is a huge secret right there.
Also balance. You don't want Mount Palomar on a mountain rifle!

For some uses I find the compactness price & simplicity of a fixed 4X perfect, for another a 2~7 X38 is perfect & so on. Don't "just get a 3~9X44 because they're cheap"they may be but if they don't fit your needs then its a bad deal even though the equipment itself may be fine.

February 9, 2016, 01:06 AM	#1
RoyalWe Member Join Date: January 31, 2014 Location: Eugene OR Posts: 62	When buying an optic... When you go into a store with the intention of perusing and possibly buying an optic, what do you look for? The only thing I've found is really able to be discerned is general build quality (of materials used anyway) and the optic clarity. The biggest drawback is limited distances to try it, and of course the inability to tell really how well it will handle recoil or adjustments. What all do you look for otherwise? I'm not overly experienced in shopping for optics as I can't really afford them, and rarely have the need to shoot at distances that really require magnification I rather like red dots.

February 9, 2016, 08:33 AM	#4
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Quality, followed by quality then supported by even more quality. Look AT a scope as well as through it. Back off from the eyepiece & look at it from 18" away while facing a plain wall. Perfect is a sharp-edged circle surrounded by dead black. (You rarely find this) but every little "extra" "artifact" is a loss of quality indicator. the fewer the better. Turn it backwards & look INTO it. look for baffling & so on now back off & look at the circle surrounds by black again. If its a zoom, change the power & repeat. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

February 9, 2016, 09:46 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	When checking out a scope, begin by shaking it real hard, and repeatedly smacking it on the counter just to make sure it's solidly built. That lets the clerk know they're dealing with an expert. But seriously, Thanks to modern manufacturing methods, the lower price scopes are quite good. Checking the reviews at places like Amazon and Optics Planet can help narrow the field. Probably the best advice is not get carried away with too much scope. Get the shortest view for your needs possible. A 4 or 6 power is probably all most folks need unless the scope if for long distance competition or something. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 9, 2016, 11:05 AM	#8
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Do lots of homework on re-branding. Many "store brand" are made in the exact same factory, to the exact same specs as the "big name" its far, far more common than you might think & the price differences can be staggering! __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

February 9, 2016, 02:27 PM	#11
RoyalWe Member Join Date: January 31, 2014 Location: Eugene OR Posts: 62	A bit more details Ok, so it certainly seems that it varies widely based on application. What I know as far as my preferences, from my experience, is low powered variables, 1.5-6x or so. It'll be going on my westernfield m72 30-30 so I don't need something that can see the ticks on a deer 400m away. As far budget goes, I've played around in the under 100-150 range and am sick of the general garbage quality they have, despite even having great reviews online. That being said, around $200 give or take is still probably the most I can realistically consider. Another question I'll posit, when it comes to the sales clerks, what would you ask them or what information would you want to get from them? I just hate when I think of questions after the time to ask them has passed, or worse not think of them at all.

February 9, 2016, 02:09 AM	#2
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I like red dots too. If that is what you prefer, by all means get one. A fine 1-2moa dot is great, even past 100 yards. As for scopes I have very limited experience, but I do look at eye relief distance, edge to edge clarity, finger adjustable turrets, mil dots and magnification. Fortunately Cabela's has dozens of scopes mounted on mock rifles to get a feel for what each has to offer.

February 9, 2016, 07:28 AM	#3
Rancid Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2015 Posts: 185	I first determine my budget and then I buy the best I can afford. In optics, you really get what you pay for.

February 9, 2016, 10:45 AM	#6
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	I look to see if the name 'Leupold' is on the scope, then consider the rest of it from there. I'm tired of cheap scopes.

February 9, 2016, 10:58 AM	#7
SamNavy Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2011 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 433	I agree with G.W... modern name-brand scopes are pretty good as long as you're realistic about their capabilities. No amount of instore "testing" is going to give you enough insight into real-world performance that would help you make a decision. I hate to say it, but the internet is a wealth of knowledge as long as you can filter the chaff through the wheat. I don't think I'd walk into a store to go "shopping". I'd do my homework online and go to a store to look at an actual unit, which I may have already decided is the one I'm going to buy anyways. If I did no actual homework beforehand, my dataset would only be the scopes/brands they had on display in that store... and a place like Dicks is going to have far less examples than a Cabelas... and might not have some of the very high-end stuff that a more "tactical" type place might carry. In a store, you're also going to be at the mercy of the salesguy and his level of knowledge to explain things to you. My story... I bought an Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18 scope (on an enormous discount) as a dedicated range unit that I planned to ONLY use at 100yds for testing ammo and general marksmanship practice. For that purpose, it worked pretty good during the day, under an awning, in the morning coolness, off a bipod/rest, totally controlled situations... in fact, it worked damned good. One weekend I left it on my 6.8spc AR15 and took it on a deer hunt. The first time I looked at an animal through it was laying prone, in direct sunlight, at about 250yds, on an 80* day... it was total bollocks. At 18x, it was unusable, at 10x I was still uncomfortable... I took the shot at 8x and said a prayer for the guys at Hornady for their SST bullets. When exposed to an actual "environment", my $150 scope revealed it's weaknesses. For red-dots... everybody makes them nowadays in many different styles. Many scopes also come with illuminated reticles that you may like. The good news is that there are many good examples that aren't very expensive. The big questions though... what kind of budget do you have, what kinds of guns, what are they going to be used for, how often, etc? Maybe we can give you a place to start with brand/models and pros/cons of different types of optics to narrow it down for you.

February 9, 2016, 12:29 PM	#9
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	I have no use for dot sights, none have good glass, none work well in low light, none are very precise, and none are faster to use than a conventional scope on 1X. If you shoot up close this is what you need. You'll quickly forget dot sights. http://swfa.com/Leupold-1-4x20-VX-1-...pe-P51851.aspx Leupold is never a bad choice, Even the budget VX-1 line is better than most. For a little less money the Burris FF-II and Redfield Revolution are good enough for most people. There are a few 3-9X40 Zeiss Conquests still available even though they are sold under different names that are probably the best bargain now in optics. http://www.eurooptic.com/zeiss-conqu...214609920.aspx

February 9, 2016, 01:22 PM	#10
pwalston25 Member Join Date: January 22, 2016 Posts: 35	I like all different types of optics. For hunting here recently been going with the vortex diamondback hp's. I started with Nikon, but I hate the bdc reticle with the huge circles under the main crosshairs. The only exception to that is the bdc600 and 800 in the AR scopes. They are nice. I went with vortex bdc because it uses little hash marks opposed to the circles from nikon. Bdc is a must for me because while hunting you don't have time to start calculating data and twisting turrets. I have yet to test the Vortex bdc but they have a really nice program for calculating your load and drop. The Nikon program was dead on all the way up to 500 yards. Thats the longest distance I had to shoot. For combat/PD type carbines I love a red dot. I always look at battery life. Thats a big thing to me. I always try to stay with a 2 MOA dot also. 4 MOA is good up close but its very easy to shoot longer ranges (200-400 yards or so) with the 2 MOA dot. If you turn the brightness down to where you can barely see the dot it gets more precise also. Of course Aimpoint is awesome but the price is outrageous especially for the micro series. Been wanting to try out the MRO from Trijicon. I have a little Bushnell TRS-25 on a AAC Handi Rifle and its surprisingly a good optic. I have also had good luck with the Vortex Sparc II. Of course neither of those live up to the great battery life part. The primary arms advanced micro dot or some of the holosuns (pretty much same thing) do good in that area though for a good price. As far as long range, I don't have much experience in that field. Limited places to shoot is the first thing. I would assume I would search for something in the first focal plane. Maybe 6-24 power or something similar. Not a fan of fixed power optics. As with most things in life you usually get what you pay for. You can, however, get some good optics in the $200 price range that will suit you fine I think.