Wood Stock repair - Page 2

Pahoo · July 10, 2021, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Yep, the buttons are only to get you close.

Yes, they have limited use/application .....

Quote:

I wouldn't dwell on making the joint invisible......only strong.

But pretty darn close or at best barely noticeable and stronger than the adjoining wood by using tinted Acra-glas.

Again, the root-cause of this problem, needs to be addressed ........

Be Safe !!!

stinkeypete · July 10, 2021, 01:39 PM

Acraglas, marine epoxy, or West System … not hardware store epoxy.

One could glue it back up and see if it holds another 40 years.

While it’s not pretty, a custom hardwood dowel or dowels, drilled square and true and finished right… tells a story. I would be proud of it, if it’s done craftsman like.

Or do it internal, Oversize one hole until a blind dowel wobble-fits, the fill the void with acraglas and microbaloon goop. Then faint surfaces and clamp.

**4V50 Gary** · July 11, 2021, 04:43 PM

I still think a dowel is fine if a brass oval plaque ready for engraving is placed over to conceal it. It'll give it a custom look.

Bill DeShivs · July 11, 2021, 08:09 PM

This thread explains why good gunsmiths make money.

**Unclenick** · July 11, 2021, 10:02 PM

The transfer buttons are typically used in conjunction with a drill jigs that make sure the holes have the same axis. For irregular pieces like the OP's, only drilling oversize holes in the two halves marked by buttons will be sure to allow alignment, and then you need a filled epoxy to fill the gaps around the dowels.

The better way is to follow Scorch's approach. I will re-describe it just in case reading it in different words helps someone.

1. Remove the stock from the gun. This will expose the wood normally inserted into the back of the receiver. All drilling needs to start into a wood surface that is concealed when the gun is assembled, and taking the stock off the gun is the only way to access those surfaces.

2. Glue the two pieces together, do all required wiggling and adjusting to achieve good mating so as to make the glue line as invisible as possible. Clamp the parts so they can't slip. Rubber bands are your friend for this with irregular shapes. Get all excess squeezed-out glue wiped clean, and removed by solvent (alcohol works with wet epoxy) if necessary.

3. Let the glue set, but before it fully cures, you want to drill your dowel holes. Note that the dowels don't have to be perpendicular to the glue plane. They can go diagonally across the glue plane. They just have to start from the normally hidden part of the stock, pass through the glue plane and not go deep enough to emerge from the finish on the other side.

4. Glue your dowels in with the same epoxy you used for the original gluing. This will adhere well to both the wood and the existing glue as long as the former has not set too completely.

Variations:
You can clamp the wood together and drill before gluing. Just be aware your clamp needs to be stout for this, as the drill will try to move the relative positions of the pieces. I don't recommend doing this.

You don't have to use wood dowels. I have used brass rod. Especially if the dowel has to be small in diameter, 1/8 inch brass rod from the hobby shop or the hardware works. Just realize epoxy doesn't favor copper alloys much, so you want to chuck the rod in your drill and roughen it a bit with a file or coarse sandpaper before gluing. Steel will adhere better and is stronger, but you don't want to risk rust starting and discoloring your wood.

Epoxies don't give you their best strength in a thin film. In wood, the fact the epoxy penetrates the grain will generally avoid the thin film problem, but I have seen some wood grain soak it too thin. Epoxies designed for wood, like Acraglass, will be the right viscosity to avoid that issue.

In a super-strength situation, I have used System Three Endrot, a super-thin penetrating epoxy that gets deeper into wood grains than the glues, and then glued with that same company's T-88 product before the Endrot had done more than start to thicken. This provides a glued area stronger than the original wood. Just don't paint Endrot too close to the edge of finished wood, as it can creep up under the edge of the old finish and darken it.

tango1niner · July 13, 2021, 10:44 AM

To each their own method of repair...

**4V50 Gary** · July 13, 2021, 10:55 AM

Duct tape and tacks!

Rawhide and tacks were the Indian method of repair.

I keeeeeed. I had to repair a cracked stock and first had to remove the previous owner's gluing effort. Heat lamp and a lot of scraping so the two pieces could come together. Then fresh acraglass and clamp over night. This was followed by rechequering to remove the excess acraglass.

stinkeypete · July 13, 2021, 12:11 PM

I must disagree with Bill. The two outstanding gunsmiths I knew did NOT make money and went on to other more mundane jobs and much better income. The third retired and no one would buy his business.

Few folks are willing to pay for real craftsmen. It’s a shame.

jrsgunbooks · July 13, 2021, 12:24 PM

I have made this exact repair on two shotguns.

Somehow, that area is a weak spot for a lot of long guns, especially with the coarse grained woods used these days.

Epoxy resin which I mixed with finely powdered sawdust of the same type of wood from sanding.

I then clamped it two directions with soft towels under the clamps to protect the finish.

Afterwards, I sanded, stained and sealed.
I use tung oil but that is my personal preference.

These shotguns were fired pretty consistently with magnum slugs and heavy dove loads and they have held up over the last 25 years.

July 10, 2021, 01:39 PM	#27
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	Acraglas, marine epoxy, or West System … not hardware store epoxy. One could glue it back up and see if it holds another 40 years. While it’s not pretty, a custom hardwood dowel or dowels, drilled square and true and finished right… tells a story. I would be proud of it, if it’s done craftsman like. Or do it internal, Oversize one hole until a blind dowel wobble-fits, the fill the void with acraglas and microbaloon goop. Then faint surfaces and clamp. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

July 11, 2021, 04:43 PM	#28
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	I still think a dowel is fine if a brass oval plaque ready for engraving is placed over to conceal it. It'll give it a custom look. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 11, 2021, 08:09 PM	#29
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	This thread explains why good gunsmiths make money. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 11, 2021, 10:02 PM	#30
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The transfer buttons are typically used in conjunction with a drill jigs that make sure the holes have the same axis. For irregular pieces like the OP's, only drilling oversize holes in the two halves marked by buttons will be sure to allow alignment, and then you need a filled epoxy to fill the gaps around the dowels. The better way is to follow Scorch's approach. I will re-describe it just in case reading it in different words helps someone. 1. Remove the stock from the gun. This will expose the wood normally inserted into the back of the receiver. All drilling needs to start into a wood surface that is concealed when the gun is assembled, and taking the stock off the gun is the only way to access those surfaces. 2. Glue the two pieces together, do all required wiggling and adjusting to achieve good mating so as to make the glue line as invisible as possible. Clamp the parts so they can't slip. Rubber bands are your friend for this with irregular shapes. Get all excess squeezed-out glue wiped clean, and removed by solvent (alcohol works with wet epoxy) if necessary. 3. Let the glue set, but before it fully cures, you want to drill your dowel holes. Note that the dowels don't have to be perpendicular to the glue plane. They can go diagonally across the glue plane. They just have to start from the normally hidden part of the stock, pass through the glue plane and not go deep enough to emerge from the finish on the other side. 4. Glue your dowels in with the same epoxy you used for the original gluing. This will adhere well to both the wood and the existing glue as long as the former has not set too completely. Variations: You can clamp the wood together and drill before gluing. Just be aware your clamp needs to be stout for this, as the drill will try to move the relative positions of the pieces. I don't recommend doing this. You don't have to use wood dowels. I have used brass rod. Especially if the dowel has to be small in diameter, 1/8 inch brass rod from the hobby shop or the hardware works. Just realize epoxy doesn't favor copper alloys much, so you want to chuck the rod in your drill and roughen it a bit with a file or coarse sandpaper before gluing. Steel will adhere better and is stronger, but you don't want to risk rust starting and discoloring your wood. Epoxies don't give you their best strength in a thin film. In wood, the fact the epoxy penetrates the grain will generally avoid the thin film problem, but I have seen some wood grain soak it too thin. Epoxies designed for wood, like Acraglass, will be the right viscosity to avoid that issue. In a super-strength situation, I have used System Three Endrot, a super-thin penetrating epoxy that gets deeper into wood grains than the glues, and then glued with that same company's T-88 product before the Endrot had done more than start to thicken. This provides a glued area stronger than the original wood. Just don't paint Endrot too close to the edge of finished wood, as it can creep up under the edge of the old finish and darken it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 13, 2021, 10:55 AM	#32
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Duct tape and tacks! Rawhide and tacks were the Indian method of repair. I keeeeeed. I had to repair a cracked stock and first had to remove the previous owner's gluing effort. Heat lamp and a lot of scraping so the two pieces could come together. Then fresh acraglass and clamp over night. This was followed by rechequering to remove the excess acraglass. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 13, 2021, 10:44 AM	#31
tango1niner Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: NY Posts: 317	To each their own method of repair...

July 13, 2021, 12:11 PM	#33
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	I must disagree with Bill. The two outstanding gunsmiths I knew did NOT make money and went on to other more mundane jobs and much better income. The third retired and no one would buy his business. Few folks are willing to pay for real craftsmen. It’s a shame. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

July 13, 2021, 12:24 PM	#34
jrsgunbooks Member Join Date: July 12, 2021 Location: Texas Posts: 19	I have made this exact repair on two shotguns. Somehow, that area is a weak spot for a lot of long guns, especially with the coarse grained woods used these days. Epoxy resin which I mixed with finely powdered sawdust of the same type of wood from sanding. I then clamped it two directions with soft towels under the clamps to protect the finish. Afterwards, I sanded, stained and sealed. I use tung oil but that is my personal preference. These shotguns were fired pretty consistently with magnum slugs and heavy dove loads and they have held up over the last 25 years.