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Old Yesterday, 02:01 PM   #76
JohnKSa
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However, both the round and the S&W pistol chosen were bigger and more difficult for enough of their agents to handle that qualification scores went down.

The FBI then went to a reduced power 10mm load...
I have never seen any evidence that the FBI issued any ammo other than the reduced power 10mm load. That is, all the evidence I have seen says that they settled on the reduced power 10mm load BEFORE they ever issued any 10mm guns or ammo to agents.

However, the point is well taken--they felt they were getting the performance they needed from the reduced loading and saw no need to pay the recoil penalty for more. It does speak to the idea of there being limits placed on cartridges--for example, on the lower end from performance requirements and on the upper limits by recoil tolerance.
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Old Yesterday, 03:02 PM   #77
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Even Dirty Harry had his limits. In Magnum Force there is a scene where he admits to shooting .44 Specials, not magnums.
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Old Yesterday, 04:47 PM   #78
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Old Yesterday, 06:03 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
Even Dirty Harry had his limits. In Magnum Force there is a scene where he admits to shooting .44 Specials, not magnums.
Funny thing is, I chrongraphed some of my buddies 44spl loads out of a 4in, 6in and 20in barrels. The thing I found interesting is the performance was fairly similar to 45acp with similar bullet weights, with the exception of the 20in lever gun.
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Old Yesterday, 06:28 PM   #80
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The original .44 Special factory load is a bit on the weak side for the cartridge, being a 246gr bullet at about 700fps from 5" barrels.

In guns like the Colt SAA the .44 Spl can reach 900-1000fps+ depending on barrel length and Keith got considerably more with his loads without blowing up the guns.
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Old Yesterday, 09:18 PM   #81
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I'm sure there are reasons, but today a lot of the mindset for handgunners is to shoot as fast as possible and put as many rounds on target as it takes and most focus on the ancient 9x19 and a good number consider anything more powerful to take away from that ability to put rounds on target....odd, I know.

I've played around with loading .45 Super hot, making it a 460 Rowland but that's really only a handloaders proposition, since the external dimensions are the same as the .45 ACP, if one found its way into an old .45 the results could be nasty, so I can see why although very good, cartridges like the 45 Super don't really ever take off and wouldn't, they're too big a liability for the big ammo makers.

I'm not sure why there isn't a 44 caliber modern semi auto self defense cartridge, I mean I do based on todays shooters, I can hear them screaming "too much recoil", but a .429" semi auto round that has the same general OAL of the .45 and 10mm but more powerful, at least potentially, than both with capacity in between the two would be great... but it doesn't exist for some reason. Also something like a 9x23 but running actual .357" bullets instead of 9mm bullets, you'd have good power and 9mm like capacity.
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Old Yesterday, 10:03 PM   #82
Jim Watson
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There was a .357 Auto invented and prototyped on this board. Even got half a page in a print gunzine.

There have been several threads on a .44 Auto.
"They" are not going to make one for you. Some proponent would have to put his money where his keyboard is and cough up the price of a custom .429" barrel for a 1911 or such.
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Old Today, 10:29 AM   #83
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I'm not sure why there isn't a 44 caliber modern semi auto self defense cartridge,
Probably because there's no point to it, and certainly because there's no market demand for one. Literally, any pistol big enough to take a .44 will take a .45.

Plus, no matter what you do, you're going to have very vocal critics on both sides, expect them to start before you even create a physical example.

One set will be complaining about too big too heavy, too much recoil, not enough rounds, and too expensive (and that's just to begin with), and the other side will be complaining hot its not powerful enough, its not a magnum, no good bullets for hunting, its a semi auto and so on...

AND, those are without even naming an existing gun you're going to put it in,,,and if its going in a new gun design, well, that's just a double whammy or negativism for the internet "experts" (aka keyboard commados)...

I have a few .44 caliber semi autos. I enjoy them immensely, but they ARE MAGNUMS! And they need to be.

Unlike the commercial world and many, many people, my world does not revolve around defensive handguns. They are a part, but not my main focus.

You want to meet the desires of everyone better look for an alternate reality, because people seem to only want a pistol with the power of an elephant gun, ZERO recoil, one that weighs nothing, never runs out of ammo, and costs less than a cup of coffee. Oh, and better make it invisible, too, and it will help sales if it can only be fired by the legal owner....

They find fault with everything less, in one way, or another. People are like that...

there are a lot of possible new cartridge designs or concepts that would do useful things, BUT there's no market unless it does something existing stuff doesn't. And that's the rub. Like a lot of things, until the market WANTS it, few people will try and make it, and few of those will succeed.

IN the 50s you couldn't buy a car with seatbelts. They existed, but nobody wanted them/ didn't feel they were needed. Today, not only can you not find a car without them, there are laws that say you HAVE to wear them!

At some point the public will once again remember that a plastic 9mm isn't the be all end all of handgunning. Some of us have never forgotten...
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