Help for a new BP shooter: How hard should it be to load?

[higgscharger]

I just shot my BP rifle for the first time yesterday.

First, it was really cool, going to be doing more of that for sure.

But, my inexperience has me a bit nervous about getting stuff right.

My rifle is a .45 cal Hopkin and Allen underhammer.

I am shooting .440 lead ball with a lubricated patch that is listed for .45.

When I load, it is really hard to get the ball started with my starter and very tough to get the ball all the way to the powder. Two hands and all the grip strength I can muster tough at times.

I know that leaving a void between powder and ball is a bad thing, so I was a bit nervous about how hard I was having to work to seat the ball that I would leave a gap.

Do I just need to get stronger? Is this a technique problem? Wrong ball size? wrong patch size? More lubricant?

I definitely need to fashion something to protect my hand, have a sore spot in my palm from trying to push down on the thin, round end of the ramrod.

Thanks for the help!

[swathdiver]

Your patch material is likely too thick. You need to measure its stretched thickness with a micrometer or caliper. Then go to the store with your micrometer and buy some pillow ticking that is slightly thinner.

You can then cut the ticking at the muzzle after rendering it into 1" or so wide strips.

You sound like an excellent candidate for Dutch Schoultz's "The System"; guaranteed to be the best $20 you ever spend on shootin'.

[kwhi43]

What I am going to say I know you will find impossible , but it is a fact. In my
45 rifle which has a.450 bore, which is land to land dia of .450 and a groove dia
of .470 I use a ball with a dia of .454 and a .018 thick patch . This I tap into the
barrel about a 1/16 of a inch with a brass hammer and a piece of brass about
1/4 dia with the same radius as the ball so there will be no de-formation of the
ball. Now here come the impossible part. I then can put my little finger on the
end of my 1/4 inch stainless steel ramrod and push the ball down onto the powder charge. It goes down very easy. All my rifles load this way, and my
single shot pistols. This is the way most everybody loads at the National matches
at Friendship. My wife uses a .410 dia ball in her 40 caliber Green Mt. Barrel
and it works same way. I know this doesn't solve your problem, but it is how
it goes. You can e-mail me for help if you like
Phil

[Hawg]

I definitely need to fashion something to protect my hand, have a sore spot in my palm from trying to push down on the thin, round end of the ramrod.

Never ever put pressure on the tip of a wood ramrod with your hand. If it breaks guess where the broken end is likely to end up. Grip it 6-8 inches from the muzzle. Like Swathdiver said try thinner patches.

[wogpotter]

It can be several things, sometimes combined that make it tough.
Ball, patch & bore not adding up is one.
The "wrong" lube is another.
The shape of the rifling right at the end of the muzzle can be a bear if it has no leade in. (But once past the hard start it wont continue).
Using a short starter properly will help as well.

I found that once I get past the "nub" on the short starter & use the rod it seems to compress things so its easier to ram the rest of the way.

Once I'm "pretty much seated" I actually throw the rod, quite hard, for 3~4" to finalize the seating of the ball on the charge. The sound of a seated ball & one still sliding in the bore is very different once you learn to listen for it.

If you're really concerned a thing strip of tape round the ramrod, that aligns with the muzzle when the ball is seated on the charge will put your mind at rest.

[Doc Hoy]

You came to the right place.

We hope you stay.

;?)

[B.L.E.]

My Green Mountain barrels behave just like Phil ([email protected]) describes. These fine target barrels are polished like a mirror inside.

The barrel that came on your Hopkins and Allen underhammer will likely get easier to load as you shoot a few hundred rounds through it and the bore gets polished a bit.
I recommend getting a stainless steel range ramrod for target range use and saving the field ramrod for hunting. One with a big ball or handle on the end that you can comfortably push on. Like the one in this picture here.

[Pahoo]

I am shooting .440 lead ball with a lubricated patch that is listed for .45.

Charger,
As others have stated, lets start with your patch. Your patch is rated for a diameter for a .45 and .50 but the key point here is the thickness. Try a .010 and step up from there. Your loading should be firm but relatively smooth. During one of our classes. I was using lubricated patches. Opened a new bag and the process really slowed down. My SideCocker indicated that the patches had changed. I could also tell by the feel. Looked at the package and it stated that I had a .018 and not my usual .015. Yes, you can feel the difference. Also, if you are using a pillow-ticking patch, they tend to be thicker. ...

Might also recommend that you purchase a RangeRod or make one, that has a palm-saver. I appreciate my Hickory rods but they a mostly good for loading and swabbing. Also, on loading, grasp the rod shaft with both hands and use short stokes until you are seated firmly on your load. Mark your rod, if you wish. I never have "any" rod, in-line with my palm. ....

Good Luck and;
Be Safe !!!

[B.L.E.]

One of the reasons the target shooters who shoot competitively use stainless steel range rods with muzzle guides is to preserve the accuracy of their barrels.
A wooden ramrod without a muzzle guide to prevent the rod from touching the bore will embed dirt and grit which acts like a lapping compound and wears the bore, especially at the muzzle. The condition of the muzzle (crown) is critical to accuracy.

[mehavey]

1. The ball/patch combo should be 'smoothly stiff' going down a non-fouled barrel
If you are no swabbing with a "damp-not-wet" patch Down&Up/Down&Up between
shots, you are fighting an impossible battle.

2. I do not recommend going to a thinner patch just yet. If your rifling is not deliberately
shallow-cut, you are likely to cut the patch either going in or going out.

3. Get a non-breakable rod -- (now if you don't already have one).
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/896...-barrels-to-36
Put the cleaning/seating jag on it, drop it down the [empty] barrel, and cut it
off 6-7" above the muzzle. Then glue* a "palm-saver" on that end.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/761...ProductFinding

4. After a cleansing swab )The short starter will require a "palm smack" to
seat the ball/patch the req'd 4-5" down the bore to start.

5 . Using two hands on the ram rod, no more than 6-8" inches above the muzzle each time,
steadily ram the ball/patch down the bore in stages.

6. When reaching the powder, smack the palm-saver a few times to ensure powder contact.

7. Shoot the sucker.....





* Silicone Seal or some other thick adhesive.

[Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret]

To prevent blow-by burning a hole in the patch, can corn meal be used as a buffer between powder and patch? What besides corn meal would work?

[Hawg]

With the right powder/patch/lube combo you don't need a filler. These are some of mine. Frayed around the edges and scorched but not burned through.

[mehavey]

^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^
No filler needed (or wanted)

[4V50 Gary]

I've used Farina as a filler. Stuff was free (and rancid and hence it was free).

[DD4lifeusmc]

pillow ticking is normally blue and white stripe material and is nominally .012 to .018 thick.
Most likely too thick for your gun.

You probably need plain cotton linen nominally .005 to .010 thick.

Most fabric stores will have it.

Then lube it with whatever BP lube you have handy.

[FrontierGander]

What kind of patch lube are you using first off? When you load, does it load smoothly or like you are pushing through a gravel road?

Recovering your shot patches will help big time and tell you if that patch it ok or not.

I am more looking at the patch lube myself. Lord knows I've gone through a lot of them trying to find one that works worth a darn.

[higgscharger]

Wow...

Thanks for a TON of good advice.

Seems like my issues are:

1. Patches:

I checked my patches, they are .018, so probably too thick as some people have suggested. They were pre-packaged, I'll look into buying my own ticking.

2. Rod:

The wood rod that came with this particular gun is only a few inches longer than the barrel, so the last few inches of loading there is no where to press but on top.

Definitely need to get a longer, stainless or otherwise better rod with some sort of knob/palm saver on top.

Any suggestions on stainless rods? I don't need the nicest possible, so economy is good. Are the synthetic "unbreakable" rods sufficient? I've found a variety of fiberglass and aluminum rods as well, all with mixed reviews.

Right now, these look like my best bet: http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/shop/pro...tainless+Steel


3. Fouling

I didn't realize the importance of cleaning after every shot. I'll definitely start doing that, should be a big help.

4. Barrel

Obviously the nicer guns are better, like what [email protected] & B.L.E. described. I am guessing that result can't be reproduced with a $200 kit gun like mine?


Thanks again, I'll keep working on my kit for awhile I'd guess.

[mehavey]

Before you change patch material/thickness, swab the barrel between shots and see the difference.

Beyond that, get the flexible rod for loading in cited in Post #10, and then follow the loading regime suggested.

[4V50 Gary]

For range rods I have one-piece brass rods. Originally they were from hardware for the push bar exit devices for doors.

[wogpotter]

I've used a synthetic "unbreakable" one for years with no problems.
You can actually get longer ramrod heads if your rod is too short for you. I've found tips varying from less than 1/2" long up to 3" long.

[B.L.E.]

Most of those $200 dollar kit guns have barrels that are button rifled. The rifling grooves are swaged, not cut, by a carbide "button" that is pulled through the barrel by a powerful hydraulic press.
They have shallow grooves and can't easily load oversized ball/patch combinations that can easily be loaded in Green Mountain barrels with their deep cut grooves.

[higgscharger]

Since i like DIY, I decided to try and make my own. Got a steel rod from Home Depot, dremelled a concave end into it to fit the ball, feels like it will work great!

Going to try and shoot it today.

[wogpotter]

Steel on steel is a bad idea.
You'll be way better off with something like brass or alloy.
Its about wear, you want the cheapest part (the rod) to wear instead of the more expensive barrel.