Webley 45 ACP clips..auto rim..loads?

Ervin · February 24, 2013, 03:59 PM

Im writing this only to get a confirmation from someone with experience with the Mark 6 Webley .455 (converted to American 45 ACP)

From what I gather, I can load 180-230gr lead (reduced charge) loads in a 45 ACP casing. Now do I also need the casings clipped with (half/full moon clips) before firing the modified cylinder?

The alternative seems to be to buy and use 45 auto rim casings with the same load. Because theyre rimmed, can they be used w/o the clips?
A concern here is rim thickness.

Anyone willing to do a trade for 45 auto rim will be appreciated.
I have 30-06, 308 and 45 ACP brass to offer.

m&p45acp10+1 · February 24, 2013, 04:04 PM

You can shoot without moon clips, though you will need somehting to remove the cases from the cylinder with. Due to the fact that there are no rims there is nothing for the extractor to grab. I have seen a guy shooting one without moon clips. He used a ball point pen body to remove the cases with. It was a slow process for him. He was testing the gun while waiting on clips that he had ordered.

kilimanjaro · February 24, 2013, 05:05 PM

You do need the clips for convenience. Let me know if you can't find any.

**Mike Irwin** · February 24, 2013, 05:28 PM

Actually, it depends on how the cylinder has been altered.

Some "conversions" simply reamed the chambers so that the .45 ACP would headspace at the correct point and allow the action to close. Ejection of fired cases would have to be done with a stick, unless the chamber mouths were altered so that a .45 Auto Rim case could be loaded.

Other "conversions" shaved the cylinder on a lathe so that half moon clipped rounds could be used.

Just depends on who did it when.

Bob Wright · February 24, 2013, 06:44 PM

The "moon" or "half moon" clips are primarily for extraction. Since the .45 Auto Rim case is rimmed, no clips are necessary when using these in a revovler.

Bob Wright

jonnyc · February 24, 2013, 07:24 PM

I use the same Rim-Z plastic moon clips in my Colt and S&W 1917s, and my shaved Webley MkVI. I also use the same target load, 200gr. LSWC with a light-ish load of Bullseye. I usually use .45ACP cases, but I have a hundred or so Auto-Rim cases that I load the same, just for an occasional change of pace.

chiefr · February 24, 2013, 08:38 PM

45 AR is the way to go. I think some of the ammo manufacturers still make these cases, but they make them in small batches once every year or two.

natman · February 25, 2013, 01:50 AM

Remington and Starline have 45AR brass. Midway has Remington in stock:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160...to-rim-not-acp

Be sure to use reduced loads with lead, preferably swaged lead, bullets.

**44 AMP** · February 25, 2013, 03:26 AM

My Webley Mk VI has been "shaved" and works only with S&W half moon clips. AR brass has too thick a rim to work in my gun. Full moon clips I have tried are also too thick for my gun. My gun will still fire .455 ammo, but ignition is undependable.

Cast bullets are ok, but hard cast are not needed. The loads you should use are in the 600-700fps range, depending on bullet weight. The Webley is sighted for a 265gr bullet, so expect a differnt point of impact with lighter slugs.

Standard GI ball level .45acp loads are a proof level load for the old Webley, do not use them.

Check the cylinder on your gun. There are numbers around the back edge. If these numbers have their bottoms cut off, your gun has been converted to use .45acp BRASS, and Auto Rim brass might work. IF only the very bottom of the numbers is gone, AR brass might be too thick. If about the bottom 1/4 of the numbers is gone, AR brass should work.

RickB · February 25, 2013, 01:52 PM

I might suggest loading the biggest ".45" bullets that you can find. I have a S&W Hand Ejector Mk. II that was converted to .45 ACP via a new cylinder, but the bore is still way oversized for any bullets that will be found loaded in ACP cases.
I've handloaded .454" bullets with some success, but even those are undersized, and I don't know that bullets of any larger diameter will fit in the cylinder; that shouldn't be a problem for a gun originally chambered for larger bullets.

Webleymkv · February 25, 2013, 03:26 PM

For handloading in a .455 Webley ("shaved" or not) the Remington 250gr LRN would seem like a good bullet to use. This is fairly close to the original weight so it should shoot reasonably close to the sights, it's a .455 diameter which is correct for .455 Webley Mk. II ammunition, and it also has a concave base that will likely obturate to the bore.

James K · February 25, 2013, 07:56 PM

"You can shoot without moon clips, though you will need somehting to remove the cases from the cylinder..."

Nope. That Webley is not an S&W or Colt 1917. It was made for .455 and does NOT have shoulders in the chamber to support a .45 ACP on the case mouth. The .45 ACP round will drop down into the cylinder too far to fire. You have no choice execept to use the .45 ACP with the old type thin steel clips or .45 Auto Rim.

I concur completely with using a much reduced load in that old Webley. Those guns were designed for a pressure around 12k psi, not the 21k of the standard .45 ACP load. Some have blown up with GI .45 ammo.

Jim

Slamfire · February 25, 2013, 08:18 PM

Try 45 Auto Rim cases. I would also recommend never ever fire 45 ACP level loads in a Webley. Download, download a lot. It does not take much to bend the topstrap of a Webley, these are very weak actions.

I used the largest lead bullets I could buy, 454", they shot OK, the rechambering job was poorly done, and I used a light load of Bullseye.

45 Auto Rim

455 Webley MkVI rechambered 45ACP
manufactured Enfield 1923

255 LSWC (.454) 3.5 grs Bullseye thrown, R-P AR cases, CCI300 primers

Ave Vel = 541
Std Dev = 10
ES = 42.44
Low = 522
High = 565
N = 24
Shot to point of aim 25.0 yards

Ervin · February 27, 2013, 04:40 PM

I'm stocked up on .452 230gr RN lead bullets for 45 ACP.
Can I safely use 230grs with a 3gr charge of W231 and still be in the safe Webley pressure range?

February 24, 2013, 03:59 PM	#1
Ervin Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Posts: 125	Webley 45 ACP clips..auto rim..loads? Im writing this only to get a confirmation from someone with experience with the Mark 6 Webley .455 (converted to American 45 ACP) From what I gather, I can load 180-230gr lead (reduced charge) loads in a 45 ACP casing. Now do I also need the casings clipped with (half/full moon clips) before firing the modified cylinder? The alternative seems to be to buy and use 45 auto rim casings with the same load. Because theyre rimmed, can they be used w/o the clips? A concern here is rim thickness. Anyone willing to do a trade for 45 auto rim will be appreciated. I have 30-06, 308 and 45 ACP brass to offer.

February 24, 2013, 04:04 PM	#2
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	You can shoot without moon clips, though you will need somehting to remove the cases from the cylinder with. Due to the fact that there are no rims there is nothing for the extractor to grab. I have seen a guy shooting one without moon clips. He used a ball point pen body to remove the cases with. It was a slow process for him. He was testing the gun while waiting on clips that he had ordered. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

February 24, 2013, 05:28 PM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Actually, it depends on how the cylinder has been altered. Some "conversions" simply reamed the chambers so that the .45 ACP would headspace at the correct point and allow the action to close. Ejection of fired cases would have to be done with a stick, unless the chamber mouths were altered so that a .45 Auto Rim case could be loaded. Other "conversions" shaved the cylinder on a lathe so that half moon clipped rounds could be used. Just depends on who did it when. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 24, 2013, 07:24 PM	#6
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	I use the same Rim-Z plastic moon clips in my Colt and S&W 1917s, and my shaved Webley MkVI. I also use the same target load, 200gr. LSWC with a light-ish load of Bullseye. I usually use .45ACP cases, but I have a hundred or so Auto-Rim cases that I load the same, just for an occasional change of pace. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

February 25, 2013, 03:26 AM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	My Webley Mk VI has been "shaved" and works only with S&W half moon clips. AR brass has too thick a rim to work in my gun. Full moon clips I have tried are also too thick for my gun. My gun will still fire .455 ammo, but ignition is undependable. Cast bullets are ok, but hard cast are not needed. The loads you should use are in the 600-700fps range, depending on bullet weight. The Webley is sighted for a 265gr bullet, so expect a differnt point of impact with lighter slugs. Standard GI ball level .45acp loads are a proof level load for the old Webley, do not use them. Check the cylinder on your gun. There are numbers around the back edge. If these numbers have their bottoms cut off, your gun has been converted to use .45acp BRASS, and Auto Rim brass might work. IF only the very bottom of the numbers is gone, AR brass might be too thick. If about the bottom 1/4 of the numbers is gone, AR brass should work. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 24, 2013, 05:05 PM	#3
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	You do need the clips for convenience. Let me know if you can't find any.

February 24, 2013, 06:44 PM	#5
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	The "moon" or "half moon" clips are primarily for extraction. Since the .45 Auto Rim case is rimmed, no clips are necessary when using these in a revovler. Bob Wright

February 24, 2013, 08:38 PM	#7
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	45 AR is the way to go. I think some of the ammo manufacturers still make these cases, but they make them in small batches once every year or two.

February 25, 2013, 01:50 AM	#8
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,607	Remington and Starline have 45AR brass. Midway has Remington in stock: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160...to-rim-not-acp Be sure to use reduced loads with lead, preferably swaged lead, bullets.

February 25, 2013, 01:52 PM	#10
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I might suggest loading the biggest ".45" bullets that you can find. I have a S&W Hand Ejector Mk. II that was converted to .45 ACP via a new cylinder, but the bore is still way oversized for any bullets that will be found loaded in ACP cases. I've handloaded .454" bullets with some success, but even those are undersized, and I don't know that bullets of any larger diameter will fit in the cylinder; that shouldn't be a problem for a gun originally chambered for larger bullets.

February 25, 2013, 03:26 PM	#11
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	For handloading in a .455 Webley ("shaved" or not) the Remington 250gr LRN would seem like a good bullet to use. This is fairly close to the original weight so it should shoot reasonably close to the sights, it's a .455 diameter which is correct for .455 Webley Mk. II ammunition, and it also has a concave base that will likely obturate to the bore.

February 25, 2013, 07:56 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"You can shoot without moon clips, though you will need somehting to remove the cases from the cylinder..." Nope. That Webley is not an S&W or Colt 1917. It was made for .455 and does NOT have shoulders in the chamber to support a .45 ACP on the case mouth. The .45 ACP round will drop down into the cylinder too far to fire. You have no choice execept to use the .45 ACP with the old type thin steel clips or .45 Auto Rim. I concur completely with using a much reduced load in that old Webley. Those guns were designed for a pressure around 12k psi, not the 21k of the standard .45 ACP load. Some have blown up with GI .45 ammo. Jim

February 25, 2013, 08:18 PM	#13
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Try 45 Auto Rim cases. I would also recommend never ever fire 45 ACP level loads in a Webley. Download, download a lot. It does not take much to bend the topstrap of a Webley, these are very weak actions. I used the largest lead bullets I could buy, 454", they shot OK, the rechambering job was poorly done, and I used a light load of Bullseye. 45 Auto Rim 455 Webley MkVI rechambered 45ACP manufactured Enfield 1923 255 LSWC (.454) 3.5 grs Bullseye thrown, R-P AR cases, CCI300 primers Ave Vel = 541 Std Dev = 10 ES = 42.44 Low = 522 High = 565 N = 24 Shot to point of aim 25.0 yards __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

February 27, 2013, 04:40 PM	#14
Ervin Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Posts: 125	I'm stocked up on .452 230gr RN lead bullets for 45 ACP. Can I safely use 230grs with a 3gr charge of W231 and still be in the safe Webley pressure range?