1884 trapdoor springfield armory indian scout rifle

[Teammiller]

I have this rifle, pic soon . It has a ramrod bayonet, wrapped in buffalo hide , beaded nd silver studded througjout there is a big uss logo . Supposedly United States Scout.. ibought it from a dealer who stated it was given to an indiian scout
For the spanish american war. Does any of this mean anything? can it be verified somehow?...the sight goes out to 2000 yds? Ft? It shoots 45-70 gov

[price7204]

Since it has the ramrod bayonet feature that marks it as an 1888 model. (They used the model 1884 recievers on these as well). The 1888 was the last model of the trapdoor Springfield rifle manufactured. A majority were in .45-70 Government calibre as you stated yours is, but a few were in 30-40 Kraig. The correct sight for the 1888 is the Buffington Ladder sight, with sliding elevation and a windage screw. It is calibrated in yards. They were pretty optomistic with a 2000 yard setting. This extreme long range setting was used for mass fire by a large number of riflemen. Beyond 180-200 yards, the projectile starts dropping like a cut loose crow-bar.

As to Indian Scout useage in the Spanish American War,---- I don't know. I do know that there was some Indian useage of the trapdoor's in the American west, mostly in tribal police units. I have seen several "Indian used" weapons (mostly Winchesters and no Springfields) and for the most part they have been doctored up in an attempt increase the value of the gun. The more ornate the decoration, the more I would doubt the Indian useage claim. Most Indian guns that I have seen were beat all to pieces and the decor was mostly brass tacks on the stock in simple patterns, mostly crosses, vee's or circles. I've never seen one with hide wrapping, except when it was used to field repair a cracked/broken stock.

Without a hands on inspection, it would be very hard to make any judgement whatsoever about the "indian useage" aspect, and even then it would basically be an opinion which would be difficult, if not impossible, to document. I've also never seen, or read, of the USS stamp you mention. Many do have unit markings and rack numbers on the stock, on top and ahead of the buttplate. It is often possible to identify to which unit they were issued.

I do hope you can post some good photos of the gun, as I'm sure it is a very interesting piece.

[30-30remchester]

Ditto on the desire to see photos of this interesting firearm. As stated I myself have not heard of the USS stamp or the scouts, however that doesnt mean they didnt exist, just that they may not have been well known. I study old guns with histories, many old documented Indian guns. Many early Indian guns had their buttplates removed and these were used as garden impliments by the women of the tribe. I have also seen a few longer barreled rifles that were cut down with no front sight added. These cut downs were done for easy of handling on horseback while buffalo hunting as the stories go. Seems they didnt need sight to shoot buffs while being chased on horseback. That and there was no easy way for them to reinstall a front sight. Faked buttplateless guns are easy to detect as the wood of the buttstock in not rounded off from wear like older authenic guns would be. Anyhow hope that others on here can confirm the scout story.

[Teammiller]

[IMG][IMG]t[/IMG][/IMG] best I could do

[Teammiller]

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[Teammiller]

[Teammiller]

new pi cs

[jtb1967]

Your rifle is an 1888 model. My first thoughts are that the Indian scout story was a b.s. sales pitch by the dealer.

[Scorch]

Hmmmmmmmm.
Vegetable-tanned leather.
Modern mass-produced glass beads.
Hmmmmmmmm.
Nope.

Don't know who, how, or why. May have been done by a native American, but not 140 years ago. Buy the gun, not the story.

[Maxem0815]

Indian scout??????????? I have a 1863 Alison conversion scout carbine its beat to hell rusted to no end and is a carbine version because I guess the Indian blew up the barrel. It has 6 studs on it in the shape of a cross 1 stud missing and rawhide wrist under which is a nasty crack. This is an Indian gun.
I think yours looks nice but it aint Injin

[30-30remchester]

MAXEM, concerning your short barrelled gun. Definately sounds Indian to me. They didnt often take care of their possesions. As to the short barrel, this too lends itself to Indian heritage. Many long barrelled, guns were cut short by the Indians, void of sights, and used as close range buffalo guns for horseback hunting, where shots were taken at running buffalo at mere feet distances. Does your rifle still have the buttplate? As stated, in the west steel was a valuble item and many times the buttplate was removed and used for other purposes.

[kilimanjaro]

The buttplates were often taken off and used for digging tools by the women. As far a buffalo hunting goes, by 1888 the buffalo was about extinct, so a big grain of salt for that story. The beads and leather look too good, I've seen only a few authentic Indian rifles in museums, but all of them were poorly kept and maintained, and none of them were 'Tonto'ed' (to coin a phrase), like this one. What I've seen were simple tack designs, burned-in designs of simple geometry or figures, tapped-in designs with a stone or antler, and wire or sinew wrapping of cracked stocks.

I can't believe the Army would have allowed any serving scouts to Tonto up a service rifle in this manner. I don't recall a period photograph of Indian Police that doesn't show semi-scrupulous attention to uniform and issue weapons.

Hope you didn't pay a premium for the story.

[Ideal Tool]

Hey, it could have very well been an American Indian owned rifle...It's possible it was lost to chief Wild Eagle in a poker game by Cpl. Randolf Agarn.