Results with 150gr Collet Pulled .30 cal bullets...

azredhawk44 · June 29, 2009, 12:06 PM

I have 1000 old surplus collet pulled M1 bullets I've been using for .308 cheap reloads. I think I got them from Wideners about 2-3 years ago.

If I shoot magtech/federal/nato ball ammo, I get about 3MOA from prone.

If I shoot my reloads with these bullets, I seem to be getting about 5 or 6 MOA from prone. Bullet spread was about a foot at 200 yards... awful.

Am I alone in this observation and I need to tinker my load more, or are these bullets simply not uniform enough due to 1950's construction coupled with the abuse of being pulled in industrial bullet pullers?

Load is Federal brass, CCI 34 primer, IMR4895 @ 44.0gr, 2.775" OAL with 150gr FMJ flat base surplus bullets. Shot from M14 with aperture sights. 1-12 chrome lined Criterion barrel.

This same rifle shoots 168gr Hornady BTHP's to 2 MOA for me from prone. I have a lot of work to go on the nut behind the bolt before I blame the rifle for more @ 2 MOA, especially since I can take that same batch of ammo and on a bad day shoot it to 4 or 5 MOA instead.

Dave R · June 29, 2009, 01:49 PM

From my experience--you're alone so far. I shoot "pullled" milsurp bullets from Hi-Techammo in my .308, and I get groups that are pretty close to what I get with new production bullets. Not quite as good, but pretty close.

How do the bullets look? If they look hammered, you probably won't get them to shoot well. But if they look good, I'd play with the load a little more.

azredhawk44 · June 29, 2009, 04:50 PM

K, thanks Dave.

I'll shoot up what I got loaded so far (another hundred or so) and tweak the load. Seat 'em another 0.01 deeper and increase the charge half a grain.

They have exposed lead bases... could that be an issue?

hodaka · June 29, 2009, 06:26 PM

I had a bunch of those once. I figured they were for machine guns, M-60's. Try weighing a bunch and I bet you will see some large variations. I gave up on trying to get any accuracy out of them. Good luck in any case.

Dave R · July 1, 2009, 01:55 PM

The ones that shoot well for me have exposed lead bases. I think most military ball does.

Hodaka makes a good point. If they are not consistent in weight, they're not gonna shoot well.

azredhawk44 · July 1, 2009, 03:40 PM

They're not inconsistent like Indian...

My friend is pulling several thousand Indian surplus "just because" since he's stuck with 'em. Stick powder in some, ball in others, charges from single digits to 40+ grains. Bullets that look like the lead was hand-ladled into the copper jacket and spitballed for weight. He's even found bullets that had ONLY THE JACKET with no lead core.

I remember weighing some and they run from low 140's to low 150's. Certainly not great, but a long way from Indian quality.

Slamfire · July 1, 2009, 08:20 PM

Old FMJ bullets are not target bullets. 3 MOA is fine.

A sampling of FMJ's fired in a Heavy barrel M77 Ruger.

The 150 Hornadays' shot real well, once I got the load right.

1968 WRA Ball

IMI FMJ

Austrailian Ball

Hornady FMJBT

Mac1045 · July 2, 2009, 01:18 PM

If you are loading 30 cal M-2 bullets and seating to the crimping cannelure your OAL is too long. 30M-2 bullets are for 30-06 in the Garand. 7.62 Nato needs the 147gr M-80 ball bullet to seat to proper depth, and OAL. Try using Ball C-2. It is very close to WC846 which is what the govt uses for 7.62. Using that under Speer 150gr BTSP I can shoot sub 1 min groups with my M1A.

azredhawk44 · July 2, 2009, 01:45 PM

Yep, they're pulled M2's. Seating past the cannelure though, with no crimp. 2.775 OAL, so they fit in the magazine and chamber fine.

Mac1045 · July 6, 2009, 06:13 PM

If you can find a dealer in re-packaged military powders, try WC846, in your loads. 46 grs is the govt load with the M-80 bullet. When loading military ammo, I always try to get the powders developed by the gov't specifically for that round.
Pat McDonald sets up at Camp Perry and has all the GI powders, or try his website http:// www/ patsreloading.com/patsrel/contact.htm
These powders will save you some money too.

June 29, 2009, 12:06 PM	#1
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Results with 150gr Collet Pulled .30 cal bullets... I have 1000 old surplus collet pulled M1 bullets I've been using for .308 cheap reloads. I think I got them from Wideners about 2-3 years ago. If I shoot magtech/federal/nato ball ammo, I get about 3MOA from prone. If I shoot my reloads with these bullets, I seem to be getting about 5 or 6 MOA from prone. Bullet spread was about a foot at 200 yards... awful. Am I alone in this observation and I need to tinker my load more, or are these bullets simply not uniform enough due to 1950's construction coupled with the abuse of being pulled in industrial bullet pullers? Load is Federal brass, CCI 34 primer, IMR4895 @ 44.0gr, 2.775" OAL with 150gr FMJ flat base surplus bullets. Shot from M14 with aperture sights. 1-12 chrome lined Criterion barrel. This same rifle shoots 168gr Hornady BTHP's to 2 MOA for me from prone. I have a lot of work to go on the nut behind the bolt before I blame the rifle for more @ 2 MOA, especially since I can take that same batch of ammo and on a bad day shoot it to 4 or 5 MOA instead.

June 29, 2009, 01:49 PM	#2
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	From my experience--you're alone so far. I shoot "pullled" milsurp bullets from Hi-Techammo in my .308, and I get groups that are pretty close to what I get with new production bullets. Not quite as good, but pretty close. How do the bullets look? If they look hammered, you probably won't get them to shoot well. But if they look good, I'd play with the load a little more. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

July 1, 2009, 01:55 PM	#5
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	The ones that shoot well for me have exposed lead bases. I think most military ball does. Hodaka makes a good point. If they are not consistent in weight, they're not gonna shoot well. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

July 2, 2009, 01:18 PM	#8
Mac1045 Registration in progress Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 11	M-2 bullets too long for 7.62 Nato (308) If you are loading 30 cal M-2 bullets and seating to the crimping cannelure your OAL is too long. 30M-2 bullets are for 30-06 in the Garand. 7.62 Nato needs the 147gr M-80 ball bullet to seat to proper depth, and OAL. Try using Ball C-2. It is very close to WC846 which is what the govt uses for 7.62. Using that under Speer 150gr BTSP I can shoot sub 1 min groups with my M1A.

July 6, 2009, 06:13 PM	#10
Mac1045 Registration in progress Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 11	Try WC846 If you can find a dealer in re-packaged military powders, try WC846, in your loads. 46 grs is the govt load with the M-80 bullet. When loading military ammo, I always try to get the powders developed by the gov't specifically for that round. Pat McDonald sets up at Camp Perry and has all the GI powders, or try his website http:// www/ patsreloading.com/patsrel/contact.htm These powders will save you some money too.

June 29, 2009, 04:50 PM	#3
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	K, thanks Dave. I'll shoot up what I got loaded so far (another hundred or so) and tweak the load. Seat 'em another 0.01 deeper and increase the charge half a grain. They have exposed lead bases... could that be an issue?

June 29, 2009, 06:26 PM	#4
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	I had a bunch of those once. I figured they were for machine guns, M-60's. Try weighing a bunch and I bet you will see some large variations. I gave up on trying to get any accuracy out of them. Good luck in any case.

July 1, 2009, 03:40 PM	#6
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	They're not inconsistent like Indian... My friend is pulling several thousand Indian surplus "just because" since he's stuck with 'em. Stick powder in some, ball in others, charges from single digits to 40+ grains. Bullets that look like the lead was hand-ladled into the copper jacket and spitballed for weight. He's even found bullets that had ONLY THE JACKET with no lead core. I remember weighing some and they run from low 140's to low 150's. Certainly not great, but a long way from Indian quality.

July 1, 2009, 08:20 PM	#7
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Old FMJ bullets are not target bullets. 3 MOA is fine. A sampling of FMJ's fired in a Heavy barrel M77 Ruger. The 150 Hornadays' shot real well, once I got the load right. 1968 WRA Ball IMI FMJ Austrailian Ball Hornady FMJBT

July 2, 2009, 01:45 PM	#9
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Yep, they're pulled M2's. Seating past the cannelure though, with no crimp. 2.775 OAL, so they fit in the magazine and chamber fine.

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