How to choose a Gunsmith

[howiej52]

Where are all the old school gunsmiths? The ones that do blue jobs, fitting stocks, gun repairs, sites,scope mounts, and gun repairs.
I was at a gun store and got several cards for Gunsmiths in the area. I wanted a hole in the back of the receiver on a p-17 Enfield filled and Warne scope mounts installed. Its a full custom, with a Williams peep site.
I e-mailed 3 of them and never got an answer.
So I wrote and article on how to choose a Gunsmith. I hope this helps newbies to gun collecting. Would post it here but it got to big.

http://www.customriflegunsmith.net

[Young.Gun.612]

I just had a less than pleasant email exchange with a gunsmith earlier this week. I had inquired about some work on my mosin, and he responded with this:

"i don't work on them. they are poor quality, unsafe, and every service I perform exceeds the value of the gun."

Regardless of how much truth may or may not be in his response, I was completely offended at what he said. All that was needed was to say he doesny work on them, even say the part about his work exceeding the guns value, but in a way that doesnt smack of condescension. I informed him that I would be advsing anyone who asks to stay away from him.

[James K]

Well, I don't agree that the M-N is either poor quality or unsafe, but it takes a lot of expensive work to make an acceptable sporting rifle out of one. Reid Coffield did up one and reported the job in several articles in Shotgun News, but he was doing it for his own satisfaction and was paid by the magazine, not by a customer.

For many younger buyers, the M-N is the only WWII rifle that is still affordable, and some want to make it over into a high class sporter. While beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, it rarely pays a gunsmith to spend more on a rifle in time and material that the gun is worth; the customer, presented with the bill, will all too often just walk away. Add that the M-N has a number of drawbacks, including the difficult safety, the short bolt handle, and the difficulty of mounting a scope, to name a few.

Today good gunsmiths can afford to pick and choose and expect to be paid at a rate commensurate with other skilled workers, like auto mechanics or plumbers. The days when a gunsmith would take a war capture Mauser and turn out a high quality sporter for $75 are no more. A decent quality sporter job on a Mauser will run at least several hundred dollars; a new barrel will add $200+, a custom stock, $200-400.

I know I will hear from folks who think the M-N is the greatest riflle ever made and is perfection itself. More objective people may simply

Jim

[Young.Gun.612]

Not trying to make it into any sort of sporter. Just want it to function correctly and be somewhat accurate. My beef with him was the pure arrogance. The quoted portion in my previous post was his entire email to me. As a consumer, that sort of attitude makes me not want to do business with him, I dont care if he's the number one gunsmith in the entire Midwest.

[dunerjeff]

I have never taken anything to a gunsmith because every time I have something that I'm not comfortable with or just don't have time to,I keep seeing the prices that people get charged for even the simplist thing.I'm a machinist so many of the things they do to a gun I can do so I have a good idea how much time it should take to say put a thread on the muzzle end of a barrel.$200 was the last one I saw,that to me is a 20min job.This job didn't require taking the barrel off the action,it was a bare barrel.

Another is kind of the same to a Beretta 92,its a conversion to tighten up the gap between slide an barrel, again thread barrel for a beretta made nut and install bushing and turn bushing to correct size for fit in the slide,his price = $250 + parts.It took me 45 min for my first one.

To me many(NOT ALL) g-smiths think they are ''special" and can charge what they want. The work is no longer for pride or because they enjoy the work,it's for money,money,money. my.02 cents

[Fleet]

Duner...so a gunsmith doesn't have the right to make a profit at what he does? You say you're a machinist - what do you make per hour? Should the gunsmith make less, for doing the same thing (don't forget to add the shop overhead into what he charges, things like insanely expensive liability insurance, license fees etc that you don't have to pay if you work for someone else). Love of the job doesn't enter the equation if it's your sole source of income...the idea is to make a buck.

[Don P]

i don't work on them. they are poor quality, unsafe, and every service I perform exceeds the value of the gun."

He is entitled to his opinion and I do believe that his head is where the sun will not shine. You would think in todays economy he would welcome the work. Maybe he is so busy that more back logged work is not needed. It also does not make sense since he has no idea who you are and just maybe how much other work could have been lost due to his response to you about the Mosin. One never knows what will come from just a simple conversation or a simple job done right. Poor business practice in my opinion. Guns are guns and it is the customers choice as to whether a repair is worth the investment.

[Rifleman1776]

You guys with choices of gunsmiths are kinda lucky. Around me there are very few and, as far as I can tell, none really good. And one is my closest friend. Those who complain that today's g'smiths cannot do many jobs are correct. Most are limited to mounting scopes and buttplates. Ask for something out of the oridinary and they are lost. I am not a machinist or gunsmith but I have had to learn to do a lot of my own work. For something complicated I would probably have to travel out of town somewhere.

[Young.Gun.612]

You're right, Don P, he just lost a lot of money. I'm the kind of person who sticks with a service provider when I find a good one. I have a pistol that I plan on having work done on as well, he lost that money. And I will be sure to tell anyone who asks me where they can find a good gunsmith that I may not know one to go to, but I sure as heck know one to avoid like the plague.

As I said, if his services really do exceed the value of the gun, there is still a much more tactful way he could have said it. Shame too, because I really do need to fine a quality smith. Lord knows I can't do the work myself.

[Don P]

As I said, if his services really do exceed the value of the gun, there is still a much more tactful way he could have said it. Shame too, because I really do need to fine a quality smith. Lord knows I can't do the work myself

It should be the customers choice as to what he or she wants to spend on any given repair on any given item. Advise is always welcome from the service provider as to cost, but still it is the service providers opinion. Sort of like do we fix the washing machine or replace it. My point as to he lost future business of yours and he doesn't even know it. Even as you said tact would have probably gotten him "your other business"

[triggerman770]

a gunsmith is quite correct in pointing out that the cost of a particular job on a less expensive firearm,BUT If a customer wants a job done and agrees on the price then I do it. now for the gent who thinks threading a barrel is a 20 minute job...It takes that much or more just to get the set-up right in the lathe.(you do want the threads concentric don't you? or are you satisfied with a halfast job?)
I spent yesterday bluing. that was after untold hours of de-pitting and polishing do folks understand all that goes into that work? I think not. Then there is the cost of the bluing salts, and on &on. I think I may give that up in the new year simply due to time & costs.

[ssbo]

I sincerely hope that the trade of gunsmithing doesn't go the same way as watchmaking, with less and less tradesman that are able to do the occasional odd ball repair and are just limited to replacing the spare part or polishing the occasional stock.

[Don P]

I sincerely hope that the trade of gunsmithing doesn't go the same way as watchmaking, with less and less tradesman that are able to do the occasional odd ball repair and are just limited to replacing the spare part or polishing the occasional stock

I think its already happened. Just my opinion now. Folks don't seem to understand the time involved in fitting parts repairing or replacing stocks. Most items will require some degree of fitting to work properly or look good. I have a very dear old friend that is a gun smith and he has stated many a time that in order to do bluing work you have to wait until there is enough parts that require bluing. Gas needed to heat the chemicals, time. I can see its not cost effective to blue 1 gun barrel with all the work involved the customer would probably have a heart attack when you quote the price for a single barrel re-blue.
Some of the custom pistol smiths building 1911's will put a class together of say 6 people and they will all build a 1911 in his shop. Price including the parts to build the gun will be $3600+, plus any upgrades to the slide plus small tools needed plus shipping the gun to your FFl. I figure you are paying the smith roughly $1500-$1800 for his knowledge and use of his shop. Just think what you go home with as far as wisdom is concerned.
In case you may be interested here is the link to the smith I got the above info from, www.rogerspistolsmithing .com