problems with .223

[bambikilla]

i have hornady lock n load ap and i am relloading 223 i started with 100 brand new brass and had no problems once i shot them and saved my brass i full length resized them trimed them then full length resized them again i got my full length sizer die touching shell plate but when i put bullet in my 700 it goes in but takes to much pressure to pull down bolt i seen hornady makes a neck sizer die does that help
thanks

[M.O.A.]

sounds like u may not have the sizer set right

[Farmland]

Your problem is the press you are using. The Hornady LNL is known not to be a good press for loading the 223. Just joking.

There could be two problems.

1.) Your sizing die is not set correctly, most people that have this type of a problem have the dies to high. You may need to lower your die more.

2.) If you are using an AR rifle you may need to use a Small Base sizing die.

[Idaho Spud]

I'm guessing that your FL die isn't sizing your fired cases enough to allow easy chambering. Could be die adjustment (die not screwed down on shellplate enough) or die could be a little long. Or maybe your press is allowing enough flex when sizing to keep the die from setting the shoulder back sufficiently. Some rifles require that you allow the loader to "cam over" a bit to ensure sufficiently sizing brass for rifles with short chambers. Of course this is impossible to do on your Hornady in your normal loading sequence. So, what I do is resize in a separate operation on a single stage press and then reload normally with die station #1 empty on my LnL. I've also considered a Lee collet neck sizer in #1, but haven't tried that yet. Good luck.

edit: you may already realize that it's always best to check your resized brass in your bolt action rifle chamber prior to loading to ensure that each one chambers. This would require resizing in a separate operation, anyway.

[steve4102]

Simple solution, screw the FL into the press until the brass chambers with ease.

[Idaho Spud]

steve4102 Simple solution, screw the FL into the press until the brass chambers with ease.

Unfortunately, he says his sizer die is touching the shellplate now.

[bambikilla]

thats correct cant go down any further i have noticed that rcbs makes an ar die wonder if that better

[Unclenick]

A small base die, like the AR will size the brass more. Before you do that, if you fired it in an AR or other self-loader to begin with, set the brass on a flat table to see if it stands up straight. A bent rim from violent extraction can appear to be a sizing problem when it is isn't. The cases then sit on a flat surface looking like the leaning tower of Pisa.

You didn't say what brand your brass is? Federal tends to be too soft and bends more easily. Winchester should do fine. If you have a good hard brand of brass and still get bent rims, a smaller gas port for the AR may be in order.

If the rims are not bent, check the shoulder and base position with a Wilson case gauge if you have one. If not, you can use a spacer or a bushing with your caliper to compare a new case to an old one as shown below, except for .223 you will want one with a 5/16" hole instead of 3/8". But mainly what you want to do is compare a fired case that has not yet been resized to a fired cast that has been resized. Using the same measuring method, the resized case should be at least 0.002" shorter.



After that, sizing the OD smaller in a small base die is where you want to go. If you are using a progressive press, like the LNL, then I would recommend you go to the RCBS small base X-die so you don't have to trim again after the first time. The instructions have you trim the case to SAAMI minimum (0.020" below maximum), then it lets the case grow to about 0.010", or to normal trim length, but no further. The mandrel in place of an expander seems to help the neck stay straight in the copy I have. YMMV.

[bigwrench]

Did you change the cartridge overall length on the second loading? Maybe you need to change your bullet seating depth. Seems strange that the cartridges would be that tight going back in the same chamber that they where fired in. Especialy so after full length sizeing. Could be that you are not lubing inside the case necks enough, and are pulling the shoulder back out when expanding. Try chambering one of the fired brass before resizing and see if it chambers better than the resized brass. Barring a tightly cut chamber there should be no reason to use SBD dies when loading for a 700.

[Unclenick]

Occasionally people under-resize and that leaves the case longer because the narrowing by the die elongates it first, then the shoulder is pushed back at the end of the stroke. That's when brass from the shoulder squirts into the neck, lengthening the neck and creating the need to trim. But he says he's got the die screwed in as far as he can, which is why I thought of the bent rim possibility.

But one more thing: Bambikilla, when you say the die is touching down is that with a case being resized? Often die that touches down under no sizing load will leave a light gap when a case is actually being resized. That's just due to greater stretching force on the press. You need to have a lubed, fired case run up in there and shine a flashlight from the side to make sure you still have full contact.

[Idaho Spud]

Brass with a thick neck can seemingly be FL sized when in reality the neck portion of the die has created a "false shoulder" at the junction of the neck/shoulder.
This happened to me once in my "experimental" days while case forming '06 brass to 308 Win (then to 243!). The neck portion was considerably thicker in this case. But we're probably bordering on the esoteric now. I agree with bigwrench, shoulder pulled out from sooty necks dragging on the ext. ball, etc. And like BW said try chambering your fired brass before sizing. Should go in pretty easy. If it were me I'd look to see why these dies are not doing the job, etc. before buying SB dies or whatever.

[Farmland]

The 223 is one of those that every once in awhile causes some problems with people and their guns. It is probably without a doubt the caliber that I have loaded that has never resulted in a problem.

I have never used or reloaded new brass. All of my brass has been used brass and it included every possible manufacture and includes a ton of military brass.

I use a very different work flow when it comes to my 223. It is a little longer but I have never had a stuck case in a die, a round that would not chamber and a round so far that has performed as expected.

I start by trimming then sizing and depriming each die through a single stage press. Since there is no flex my regular RCBS dies have done the job. I make sure that when the ram runs the dies down on the brass it is making contact plus with the shell plate. By that I mean the dies gets an extra little turn to make sure the die make full contact with the shell plate.

I didn't say it was fun to make 2,000 strokes just to size and deprime but it is a work flow that has proven itself to work for my rifle. Then if I have any military brass I take care of the crimp.

Then the process moves over the the Dillon 650 (any progressive will work) and I then I prime, drop powder,set and crimp bullet.

So far I have never had to sue a small base die. These steps deliver for my round and gun. I load 2,000 at a time and the reason I do it this way is that I acquire a lot of military brass.

Now I am not going to say that your LNL isn't show some flexing and I certainly wouldn't discount the brass problem pointed out by Unclenick. They are certainly easy items to check, but most problems are the result of just needing the small base die.

Someday I might keep track of my brass so I can do most of it in a progressive but I have a funny way of getting that military brass mixed in with everything.

The Small Base Dies have made a lot of 223 reloaders very happy when they learn about them.

[bambikilla]

so im lost a small rife die is better why dont they just make them all small rifle

[bigwrench]

Don't forget to lightly chamfer the inside and outside of the neck after you trim to remove burs and ridges caused by the cutter.

[Jim243]

so im lost a small rife die is better why dont they just make them all small rifle

Not all rifles require a case to be sized in an X-Small Base resizing die. Generally it is for AR's that this die is used.

What you are experiencing is a headspace problem. Your resizing die is not down enough to get the shoulder back to where it should be.

Jim



Take a case and resize it, then put it in your chamber without a bullet on it. If it is still hard to close it is your die is not down enough. If it fits and the bolt closes without a problem, then your OAL is too long for your chamber.

[FrankenMauser]

Sounds like crimping while seating, to me.

Are you talking about your reloaded cartridges not chambering, or just the sized brass?

If they are loaded cartridges, your seating die is incorrectly adjusted. -Repost here with your answer to the question above, and we can explain how to fix the issue (if it's loaded ammo, not sized brass).

[Eagle0711]

There is a remote possibility that you Remington has a tight throat. Maybe the brass is to thick and the necks of the brass will have to be turned to reduce the thickness.

Are the bullets .224" ?

[Tim R]

There is a lot of flex in a Lock and Load. Turning the die down a little more will more than likely fix the problem. Could be as much as a quarter turn.

[steve4102]

Screw the die down so that it makes complete contact with the shell holder with a fired round in the die.

[wwmkwood]

There is a lot of flex in a Lock and Load.

I had to turn mine in almost another 1/2 turn. The plate and indexing balls have a lot of flex, have patience and use small adjustments. Remember to relube, I ruined a couple of cases trying to resize after making the adjustments.