Jerry Miculek vs. Olympic Shooters,,, - Page 2

ghbucky · August 5, 2021, 11:35 AM

Looks like there is a summer variant to the biathlon.

http://www.biathlon.net/summer.html

Quote:

Summer Biathlon will typically consist of a 5 to 10 km run with two shooting stops. The course is divided into three loops with prone shooting following the first loop and standing shooting following the second loop. For both prone and standing shooting, competitors have five rounds to hit five targets set at 50 meters (for a total of ten shots). A 100m penalty loop must be run for every shot missed. Unlike winter biathlon, rifles are left in the shooting range on a rack. Competitors pick up rifles as they enter, and leave them as they exit the range area. For National and International events, there are rules and regulations which govern the length of the course depending on competitor class (Men, woman, junior men, junior women), the shooting distance, target size, rifle, and so forth

Yikes! Run, shoot and run more for each miss.

No pressure!

TailGator · August 5, 2021, 01:23 PM

Quote:

These seem to be summer events

Not sure why you say that. My interpretation is that the distances mentioned refer to the cross-country skiing portion of the event. Combining cross-country skiing with shooting is the only version of the biathlon I have seen.

ghbucky · August 5, 2021, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Not sure why you say that. My interpretation is that the distances mentioned refer to the cross-country skiing portion of the event. Combining cross-country skiing with shooting is the only version of the biathlon I have seen.

see post #26. There is a 'summer biathlon' which replaces skiing with running.

Bart B. · August 5, 2021, 03:02 PM

The reason why the biathlon rifle matches were established for 22 rimfire at 50 meters was it was easier to setup ranges around the world. Both the IOC and ISU made it happen.

Same thing with the 300 meter centerfire free rifle cevents. I watched Lones Wigger be awarded the last 300 meter 10 ring scoring disc for shooting the last event.

reddog81 · August 5, 2021, 03:39 PM

I'd like to see any of the Olympic shooters make 6 shots on target with a .44 Mag in under 1 second...

FITASC · August 5, 2021, 05:17 PM

It's a lot harder to hit the tiny bullseyes with a .22 or air rifle

Jim Watson · August 5, 2021, 05:30 PM

Quote:

it was easier to setup ranges around the world.

Yup. I was always fascinated by Walther Winans shooting 100 meter Running Deer with a Rigby .22 Savage High Power. Rule says centerfire, manually operated. But that was in 1906.

I recall an old American Rifleman article about the Army team trying to game that. Most European competitors just got real good with a Mauser. The Army tried to seize an advantage by shooting Remington 760 pumps; originally .223 but fitted with 28" .222 barrels and receiver sights.

The event was toned down to Running Boar with a .22 at 50 meters.
Then to a running boar at 10 meters with an air gun. Now a sliding bullseye so as not to offend the anti-pig elements.

Bart B. · August 5, 2021, 06:45 PM

I'd like to see anyone shoot 100 22 rimfire bullets inside 1 MOA at 50 yards without artificial support.

The record set in 1975 is 205 shots .. by a woman.

ghbucky · August 5, 2021, 11:08 PM

I do not understand the shade being thrown at Olympic shooters in this thread.

It sorta reminds me of the the SNL sketches during the Mike Ditka Chicago Bears era where they sat around and decided DITKA could be beat godzilla.

Miculek is a talented, disciplined shooter who excels in his sport who can do amazing things with a handgun.

Olympic shooters are talented, disciplined shooters who excel in their sport.
The French guy who won Gold in Tokyo at the Men's 25m rapid fire scored a 4 out of 5 and a perfect 5 in the final 2 strings of 4 seconds each at 25m shooting at a 10cm target. And that is not a world record. Miculek or not, that is some incredible shooting! Oh yeah, they shoot off-hand!

There is plenty of room in the shooting world for masters at multiple levels.

zincwarrior · August 6, 2021, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart B.

I'd like to see anyone shoot 100 22 rimfire bullets inside 1 MOA at 50 yards without artificial support.

The record set in 1975 is 205 shots .. by a woman.

Darn wimminz! Takin our Goldz!

I always wondered how the Russians felt about that winter "lets shoot some Rooskies" Hayak memorial ski and shoot event they do during the Winter games.

Quote:

I do not understand the shade being thrown at Olympic shooters in this thread.

Agreed. Different sports. Interesting that no seems to be "throwing shade" at the skeet/trap shooters.

Jim Watson · August 6, 2021, 08:42 AM

International trap and skeet have not been toned down like the bullet matches now shot with .22s at most and more commonly with air guns and even laser tag for the Pentathalon.
Shotgunning remains full scale.

Bart B. · August 6, 2021, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zincwarrior

Darn wimminz! Takin our Goldz!

Note the fact that 22 rimfire match ammo made after 1980 has been less accurate. This claim is based on the largest test groups fired.

Mulebuk Mojo · August 6, 2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aarondhgraham

I wonder how well Jerry would do against the US Olympic team?

The Olympics don't shoot with 'recoil'. They use to before even that got hijacked by the New World Order. it's so far removed from real sportsmanship in just about every category.

They now have men disguised as woman in weight lifting.
And shooting air-rifles for marksmanship, what a complete joke.

Jim Watson · August 6, 2021, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Note the fact that 22 rimfire match ammo made after 1980 has been less accurate.

Seen that before.
Why do you think it is not worth ANYBODY'S time to make truly superior ammo? Seems like that if somebody would go to the trouble to equal that old Mk III, they would own the target shooting market. For a while.

Bart B. · August 6, 2021, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

Seen that before.
Why do you think it is not worth ANYBODY'S time to make truly superior ammo? Seems like that if somebody would go to the trouble to equal that old Mk III, they would own the target shooting market. For a while.

If it was worthwhile for them, they would if they could.

Same reason Eley and RWS improved their 22 rimfire ammo after Winchester's MKIII began winning. Lapua Midas 22 ammo won the last big rimfire match consisting of 640 record shots over 4 days.

In the early 1990's, the US government allowed Russian made Olimp rimfire match ammo that tested most accurate. The Soviet mafia soon took over the plant to make only AK47 military ammo.

Barrels used to maintain match level accuracy for at least 50,000 rounds. Since the primer changes in 1980, life's now a bit more than 30,000.

Mike38 · August 7, 2021, 11:38 AM

Quote:

I'd like to see any of the Olympic shooters make 6 shots on target with a .44 Mag in under 1 second...

Are those "full boat" magnum loads, or what revolver PPC shooters use, barely enough to break through the paper target? Is the distance 5 meters, or 50 meters like Olympic shooters?

Bart B. · August 7, 2021, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulebuk Mojo

The Olympics don't shoot with 'recoil'. .

22 rimfire ammo's recoil during rifle barrel time is enough to make a shot move near 1 MOA from the point of aim when the primer fires.

You gotta hold still about 3 times longer than when shooting center fire arms. And don't change your hold and/or position from shot to shot else bullets won't shoot where you aim them..

**JohnKSa** · August 7, 2021, 02:49 PM

I think that Jerry could have done well in the Olympics if he had picked one of the shooting disciplines and trained for it.

The issue is that those disciplines are pretty specialized and need a lot of training that is specifically oriented at the discipline as opposed to just being accessible to a person who is good at some other shooting discipline, or maybe an all around good performer in the shooting sports. Even the Olympic shotgun sports have differences from how they are normally shot in the U.S.

The closest I see to an event that someone might be pretty good at even if they were not specifically training for it is the rapid fire pistol.

In that final round of that sport, the competitor starts with the pistol (a 5 shot semi-auto .22LR with open sights) at low ready (one handed) and at the signal, brings the pistol up and fires at 5 targets set at 25 meters (about 27.3 yards). To score a point, the target (about 4" in diameter) must be hit and the shooter has 4 seconds per string to fire all 5 shots.

The Olympic Gold winner for 2020 was Jean QuiQuampoix who had a score of 34/40 in the final.

A really good bullseye competitor might do pretty well at that sport if they could handle the time constraint and get used to shooting at multiple targets instead of just one.

Jim Watson · August 7, 2021, 03:51 PM

They keep tinkering with events. I think it good that they dropped the .22 Shortshooters from Rapid Fire, but they also changed the targets, so how can scores be compared over the years?

Bart B. · August 8, 2021, 09:50 AM

Same thing with highpower rifle matches when the scoring rings sizes were made smaller in the late 1960's and changed from 5 point to 10 point values. The 308 Winchester ammo and chamber then used was more accurate than the 30-06 causing too many unbreakable ties. Had the 30-06 chambers been changed a bit and slower twist used, they would have been more accurate.

You can compare scores by comparing one targets shot hole pattern across that of others with different ring sizes.

August 5, 2021, 05:17 PM	#31
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	It's a lot harder to hit the tiny bullseyes with a .22 or air rifle __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

August 5, 2021, 06:45 PM	#33
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	I'd like to see anyone shoot 100 22 rimfire bullets inside 1 MOA at 50 yards without artificial support. The record set in 1975 is 205 shots .. by a woman. Last edited by Bart B.; August 5, 2021 at 08:10 PM.

August 7, 2021, 02:49 PM	#43
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,993	I think that Jerry could have done well in the Olympics if he had picked one of the shooting disciplines and trained for it. The issue is that those disciplines are pretty specialized and need a lot of training that is specifically oriented at the discipline as opposed to just being accessible to a person who is good at some other shooting discipline, or maybe an all around good performer in the shooting sports. Even the Olympic shotgun sports have differences from how they are normally shot in the U.S. The closest I see to an event that someone might be pretty good at even if they were not specifically training for it is the rapid fire pistol. In that final round of that sport, the competitor starts with the pistol (a 5 shot semi-auto .22LR with open sights) at low ready (one handed) and at the signal, brings the pistol up and fires at 5 targets set at 25 meters (about 27.3 yards). To score a point, the target (about 4" in diameter) must be hit and the shooter has 4 seconds per string to fire all 5 shots. The Olympic Gold winner for 2020 was Jean QuiQuampoix who had a score of 34/40 in the final. A really good bullseye competitor might do pretty well at that sport if they could handle the time constraint and get used to shooting at multiple targets instead of just one. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

August 8, 2021, 09:50 AM	#45
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Same thing with highpower rifle matches when the scoring rings sizes were made smaller in the late 1960's and changed from 5 point to 10 point values. The 308 Winchester ammo and chamber then used was more accurate than the 30-06 causing too many unbreakable ties. Had the 30-06 chambers been changed a bit and slower twist used, they would have been more accurate. You can compare scores by comparing one targets shot hole pattern across that of others with different ring sizes. Last edited by Bart B.; August 8, 2021 at 11:27 AM.

August 5, 2021, 03:02 PM	#29
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	The reason why the biathlon rifle matches were established for 22 rimfire at 50 meters was it was easier to setup ranges around the world. Both the IOC and ISU made it happen. Same thing with the 300 meter centerfire free rifle cevents. I watched Lones Wigger be awarded the last 300 meter 10 ring scoring disc for shooting the last event.

August 5, 2021, 03:39 PM	#30
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	I'd like to see any of the Olympic shooters make 6 shots on target with a .44 Mag in under 1 second...

August 5, 2021, 11:08 PM	#34
ghbucky Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2020 Posts: 1,177	I do not understand the shade being thrown at Olympic shooters in this thread. It sorta reminds me of the the SNL sketches during the Mike Ditka Chicago Bears era where they sat around and decided DITKA could be beat godzilla. Miculek is a talented, disciplined shooter who excels in his sport who can do amazing things with a handgun. Olympic shooters are talented, disciplined shooters who excel in their sport. The French guy who won Gold in Tokyo at the Men's 25m rapid fire scored a 4 out of 5 and a perfect 5 in the final 2 strings of 4 seconds each at 25m shooting at a 10cm target. And that is not a world record. Miculek or not, that is some incredible shooting! Oh yeah, they shoot off-hand! There is plenty of room in the shooting world for masters at multiple levels.

August 6, 2021, 08:42 AM	#36
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	International trap and skeet have not been toned down like the bullet matches now shot with .22s at most and more commonly with air guns and even laser tag for the Pentathalon. Shotgunning remains full scale.

August 7, 2021, 03:51 PM	#44
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	They keep tinkering with events. I think it good that they dropped the .22 Shortshooters from Rapid Fire, but they also changed the targets, so how can scores be compared over the years?