The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 15, 2021, 08:54 PM   #1
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,199
Finnish 7.62 v. Soviet 7.62

Why is the Finnish cartridge called the 7.62x53R and the Soviet (parent cartridge) 7.62x54R?
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old July 16, 2021, 06:33 AM   #2
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,791
Because it's not the same cartridge as the 7.62x54R Russian round. Case dimensions in a number of areas are different (the Finnish case is slightly shorter) and the standard bullet is very slightly smaller in diameter.

Since case head and rim thickness are the same, I THINK that you can shoot either round in a rifle chambered for the other.

It's a situation not unlike the 7.62mm Tokarev vs. 7.63 Mauser. The rounds are VERY similar in dimension, but not identical, but in most cases they will interchange with no problems.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old July 16, 2021, 08:16 AM   #3
ernie8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2018
Posts: 130
Another internet myth , started by people who did not understand what they read . Friends in Finland do not think this . The cases are the same , within normal military tolerance . Just look at real ammo . I have a good amount of both . About half of the Finn used rifles and ammo was captured USSR . The case is right at 53.5 , so it is rounded up or down . Some civilian club rifles had .308 ish bores and used .308 match bullets and were later used in war . USSR WWII era ammo was made with a .3098 dia bullet , not .311 as thought by some . Most militaries have slight variations in different loads of their service ammo .
ernie8 is offline  
Old July 16, 2021, 10:54 AM   #4
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,791
Interesting.

C.I.P designates them as different cartridges with similar, but not identical, dimensions.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old July 21, 2021, 09:23 AM   #5
ernie8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2018
Posts: 130
Most ammo made for military calibers , but by different makers or countries have similar but not identical dimensions . Just compare WWI Brit .303 to US made .303 . German 7.92 x 57 mm was made with two different neck dia and three different bullet dia ,but all will fire in any German military rifle Gew-98 and up . Romanian made 7.92 x 57 mm is different in several ways than Yugo made , but both still fire in each others guns .
ernie8 is offline  
Old July 22, 2021, 06:13 AM   #6
BCR1
Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2021
Location: Chattanooga
Posts: 63
[QUOTE=ernie8;6877837 Romanian made 7.92 x 57 mm is different in several ways than Yugo made , but both still fire in each others guns .[/QUOTE]
I have both. What are the differences so I can compare?

Bill
BCR1 is offline  
Old July 22, 2021, 07:59 AM   #7
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,791
I'm aware of that. But...

C.I.P doesn't consider American vs British made .303 to be different cartridges.

C.I.P consideres the 7.62 Finnish and 7.62 Russian to be different cartridges, and lists them as such.

The same as the previous example I provided, 7.62 Tokarev vs 7.63 Mauser. C.I.P lists them as separate, distinct cartridges.

C.I.P is the European version of SAAMI. I'm more than willing to accept their determinations.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old July 22, 2021, 02:56 PM   #8
ernie8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2018
Posts: 130
Rom to Yugo 8mm . The Yugo is a .323 dia bullet , the Rom is .321 . The Rom is a little narrower at the shoulder . There is more difference between US .303 and British WWI ammo than there is between some Russian and Finn 7.62x54 . 7.62 T and 7.63 M are different cartridges , for different weapons . Just because you could fit a .357 mag in an old 38 S&W does not mean you should shoot it . That is why they have different names . On the other hand Finn and Russian 7.62x54 ammo both shoot in the Mosin rifles with no problems . The Finn's fought two wars with that ammo without worrying about what someone at CIP thought . CIP is also confused and wrong about some German 8mm ammo also .
ernie8 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2020 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08828 seconds with 10 queries