Frustrating Savage 99 advice sought.

[JJ45]

It's an early, 300 tang safety, 99 "F" for featherweight. It is not a regular 99. Has a light, whippy 22 inch barrel and extremely slender fore end.

It is extremely accurate but will not hold a zero. I know why, It is the change in humidity (PA.) that affects this rifle. I had another 99F that had the same problem. Even the group patterns of the two rifles were the same as the weather changed. A slight change in POI would be no worry but in this case it is drastic as much as 6 inches, usually elevation, one way or the other.

I mounted a fore end screw that doubles as a sling stud if some of you are familiar with it...my older 99F had the normal fore end sling stud but it makes no difference as both rifles had the exact same problem of not holding zero!

You cannot compare the featherweight with 99s with heavier barrels and fore ends although some may exhibit the same problem as even other action types do.

If you know the rifle then you know what a sweet little deer rifle it is . Any suggestions would be helpful...Thanks, JJ

[KeithNyst]

You might try a small rubber washer over the screw between the wood and the barrel. That has helped on some of mine. Also, with the slender light-weight barrel of the 99F you may want to let it cool for 5 minutes between shots when zeroing. When you get out hunting, it's that first shot that counts. :-).

Also just double checking, I think you you are referring to the 99F made from 1955-1973. Savage also made and marketed a "99F" takedown from 1920 to 1940 .. completely different rifle, but same model #. I think the .300 Savage in that early model came with a 24" barrel. If your rear sight dovetail is in a barrel boss, it definitely the later 99F.

[JJ45]

Keith, it's a 50s F...I did try the rubber washer....The rifle will be zeroed and then when the weather changes, THE FIRST ROUND that I shoot will be considerably off....this from a cold bore.

I have come to the conclusion that without some custom made synthetic fore end, nothing can be done....even if this was possible, it would pretty much ruin the aesthetics and appeal of the gun.

[reynolds357]

Your solution is bed it and free float it. I have dealt with many pencil thin barrels from many manufacturers over the years. Bedding and floating cured 90+ percent of them. The rest got rebarreled. When I was doing a lot of accuracy work and zeroing for other people, I kept a freezer at my range. Zero and check zero on the thin profile barrels with them COLD, very cold.

[Blindstitch]

Is there a Boyd stock for that thing?

[jmstr]

Are you sure it is a 50s 99F?

I have a 54 99EG [.300 Sav] and a 57 99F [in .308]. Both have trigger guard area safeties- not Tang.

I thought Tang safeties came out around 1960, or around the million gun mark- or both? Not that a tang safety would have an impact.


As for not holding zero- I didn't notice it but haven't shot for groups yet. I am mainly hitting reactive targets.

My gut says to take no less than 5 minutes between shots in the zero phase.

Once you think it is dialed in, I'd spend at least half an hour between shots to verify that they are dialed in.

The lighter barrel is more likely to be affected by the barrel warming up.

As was stated- the first shot is the critical one. These are for hunting- not winning bullseye contests.

If I want that bullsey precision, that is when a heavy barrelled bolt action fits in.

For hunting, my understanding is that the 99F was supposed to be like a Ruger LCR [and others]: carry often, shoot seldom.

Good luck!

[std7mag]

I understand what your saying.
My questions to you would be..
1) open sights, or did you scope it?
2) same ammo? As in out of the same box.

If you put a scope on it i would say mounting or scope issue.

Another thing you can try is to remove the stock and put some sort of sealer to the inside of it. Helps keep the moisture out.

[Wyosmith]

Might try a solid bed (glass) to the barrel and the float the wood away from the receiver. You have to be careful to always hold the fore-stock in the same way every time, but if the wood doesn't touch the receiver at all, you isolate the swelling and shrinking wood from causing the problem, so it's can't move the barrel between wet and dry conditions.

Worth a try.

[JJ45]

jmstr...you are right, it is a 60s. I forget exactly which year.

std7mag...loose mounts, improperly mounted scope are the first things I would check on ANY rile so equipped..... seal all my stocks with true oil or lin speed no matter what the rifle type.

I have actually shot the rifle without the fore end attached and it held zero. As I said, I had another "F", also a 60s tang safety model, with exactly the same problem.

reynolds and Wyosmith, I believe you do have the solution.

Aso, I tried NOT using normal bench technique and resting the fore end under my hand instead of on a bag but this has nothing to do with the changing zero.

I have glassed bedded and chivied no end with other rifles but mostly bolt guns. I thought of chiseling out that entire skinny fore end and applying a layer of acraglas or steel bed but since it's held in place with one screw and fitted to the receiver by a thin area of wood it probably won't make a lick of difference

I really appreciate the ideas from everyone!

[ocharry]

hmmm,,,i think i would try shooting it without the forearm on the rifle,,to zero and then again when the weather changed,,just to see if it is the forearm pressure,,that would eliminate that part

and like wyosmith said it could be the pressure point between the forearm and the end of the receiver that is causing the issue,,,,may need to relieve the wood (make a little gap between the forearm and receiver) there to get some wiggle room for the wood to expand when the humidity is up

i have seen similar things happen to hiwall single shot rifles,,,they are very sensitive to barrel pressure,,so insted of haveing a nice tight forearm to receiver fit the guys would cut the wood away and make a gap there,,,must helped,,,lots of guys were doing it

my .02

ocharry

[ocharry]

hmm looks like i was typing while you were posting,,,lol,,,on with the sheew

ocharry

[RC20]

I am scratching my head that bedding a lever action two piece stock would do anything.

If it shoots ok without the front stock, then its got interference.

Either clear that up or shoot without it. Keep it of course.

Clearance might help, I don't have lever actions so I don't know where all attaches to what and where and the interactions are.

Bedding is for bolt actions and the center is where its at, not to the front.

Most guns prefer free float. Some do better with pressure but that's not the first direction you go with.

[T. O'Heir]

"...and free float it..." Guarantees absolutely nothing. And the 99 has a screw that holds the forend onto the barrel.
http://stevespages.com/ipb-savage-99...)-99e-99f.html
"...both rifles..." Using the same ammo? Having 2 rifle do the same thing means it's not the rifles. Iron sights on both? Proper scope mounting and rings if that applies?
Are you 'Tree Mutt', on 24hourcampfire? Same question was posted there last year about a scope .300 Savage 99F. Just curious.

[reynolds357]

If you seal the stock properly, you won't have moisture issues. It can be floated, not real hard.

[JJ45]

reynolds or anyone...any ideas on sealing the stock?...I have always applied tru oil inside all my stocks, regardless of action type, but not really as a sealing agent.

The inside probably won't be hard to seal but then there's the outside and the wood that anchors the FE to the receiver...The barrel is very thin and probably increased/decreased humidity changes the torque and hence the impact change.

Clearance is still probably the best idea but there isn't much wood to work with. I might consult with a pro stock maker or smith that might have better tools and knowledge so I don't bubba the project.

Thanks, again to everyone!

[RC20]

Try Boyds. I would look it up but low on bandwidth for the month.

Maybe , maybe not but if they have a Laminate that might help a lot. Its as good as the composite (its a type actualy) and looks a lot better (front or a matching front and rear, front would be fine, you want to hunt, looks put the old one back on). You can get some great looking stocks if the make one for it.

I use Formbys , might help. Inside the stock and the receiver end would be where it could penetrate.



But when you have that interface between the receiver and the fore arm, you would seem to be open to some strange affects with shrinkage. Throw in a thin barrel and ????

Not remotely like a bolt action.



I had to laugh at this one, not because it might not work, but going with a crowd tends to have one of two outcomes, one really bad. Not my go to when I am working on a solution for a problem (i.e group opinion)

must helped,,,lots of guys were doing it

[reynolds357]

Polyurethane is the best way to truly seal it. To float it, you have to make a pillar. That receives a modified foreend stock bolt. Bolt the pillar into the barrel. Bolt the foreend into it. You have to adjust the bolt length so that it will leave 10 to 15 thousandth. You can leave more, but you will notice the movement.

[std7mag]

I agree with Reynolds.
Poly for a sealer. Not oil as it will eventually cause issues.

Wasn't it the original Henry that didn't have a forestock?

[bamaranger]

I'm not sure what polyurethane would look like as an exterior finish, I think TruOil has some degree of poly in it to address sealing...but I could be wrong.

I Truoil my exteriors, it's a traditional, accepted finish that ususally gives good results without a lot of attention, and the product is easily obtained. But on wood stocked rifles that I suspect have a moisture/ zero issue, I use Spar Varnish on barrel channels and other interior stock areas. Unfinished, these areas can soak up a bunch of moisture.

In reading posts, if the rifle displays a consistent zero w/o the forearm, but wanders/shifts with the forearm attached, I suspect your issue is more a bedding issue of random forearm contact, with moisture caused variances. Moisture may aggrevate the condition, but the problem may well be that forearm is twanging on the skinny barrel shot to shot regardless.

Simply pondering here, but I think I would create a temporary pressure point in the forearm, forward of the forearm attaching screw, as far forward as possible, with out the forearm teeter tottering. I would do this in temporary fashion, likely using something like a shim of credit card (or 2) and a tiny drop of SuperGlue. This would be an attempt to create consistent pressure on the forearm, yet free float the remainder of the barrel channel.
I might change where I put that shim fore/aft to see if it improves one v. the other. If it worked, I'd neatly epoxy it in. I might try to shims, one foreward of the scfewhole, and one rearward ( in the barrel channel). If no help, then I'd look critically at where the rear of the forearm attaches to the receiver, that point looks suspect in the online images. (circular recess). I do not have a 99 to reference, , but I'd seek someway to shim the rear point to stablilize the forearm, and I'd try that with and without the forearm shim (s). If I could temporarily shim the rear, I would follow that path and see if there was improvement, and follow up with epoxy same if it helped. Again, I do not know if there is a way to shim the rear, but I would look at it carefully. Finally, if no improvement by shimming in any fashion, I'd glass the whole forearm in full contact and hope for the best.

[JJ45]

Great ideas from all really, Thanks,...bamaranger, your idea will be a process. I have used those plasic bread bag closures (don't know what they're actually called) to shim a bolt gun directly ahead of the recoil lug....might try 3 of them, front and rear of screw and between wood and receiver after doing my best to seal the wood, and go from there.....

BTW...ROLL TIDE ...I'm from Pa and the Lions are losing the edge, hope for the best for the future though!....Thanks again, JJ

[jfruser]

Naval spar varnish or its poly equivalent on the inside surfaces of the stock, to include under butt plate. Not sure about the outside finish, what it is and what it might readily take.

I recently finished my wooden trailer floor in 50/50 BLO/odorless mineral spirits. Man, that turned out great and very easy to apply. If you have an oil finish, that might work on the outside. Maybe on the inside, too.

[JJ45]

jfruser. I like BLO for it's look, feel, smell, etc. Not sure if it's a good sealer though.

Might try that spar on inside.

[bamaranger]

JJ45,

watch for a PM

bama

[BeeShooter]

Floating a light barrel won't work often. Sometimes you have to actually bed the forearm area about an inch or so. Treat a wooden stock channel so the stock doesn't warp against the barrel. Make sure that the action's screws are not binding and are correctly tightened. Loosen the screws and place the butt down on the floor and put down pressure on the barrel then tighten the screws back up. If you have a scope mounted it may be loose or it's just a bad/broken scope. Seek out a very good gunsmith (This is a lot harder to do than to say).

[johnwilliamson062]

seal all my stocks with true oil or lin speed no matter what the rifle type.

I don't think true oil or pure linseed oil will "seal" anything.

Waterlox Marine would probably look the best and may do the trick.

General Finishes Arm-R-Seal is probably the cheapest, will work well, and looks better than most polys or urethanes.

Watco has a nice wipe on oil based polyurethane.

System Three Top Coat will probably work the best, will be the most expensive, and look the most plastic. Two part epoxy top coat.

There are outdoor acrylics and polyurethanes that will seal better and might last longer especially variants with good UV blockers, but they generally look like crap.

If you really wanted to get crazy, you could find someone with a vacuum bag and stabilize the entire stock... Basically fills all the voids/pores with acrylic. Would be interesting to try. Not sure how much resin that would take. My guess would be it would add considerable weight to the stock.