help with a .44 mag. load

wcbeagle · August 16, 2010, 04:59 PM

Hello
I am shooting a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 mag.. I am loading 240 gr. Missouri Bullet Co. Keith style cast bullets. I am using 10.7 gr. of unique powder and win. large pistol primers. I am still getting lead build up in the bore. When I clean the barrel the lead comes out in little balls. I am hoping someone can help me with a load that won't lead the barrel. I want to use the same bullet. According to the lee manual second edition the bullet is traveling at 1152 fps.. Any info. on a good load for this bullet will be greatly appreciated

Sarge · August 16, 2010, 05:22 PM

You can either back the load down or go to a slower powder. I have found HS6 to be particularly kind to Missouri's .45/SWC bullet for the .45 Colt. More here.

44 Deerslayer · August 16, 2010, 05:26 PM

I've found the same problem with Unique, even with less powder than you are using. I don't use it in .44 Mag these days. 2400 is a much better powder for the .44 and I don't get leading even with maximum loads.

Powderman · August 16, 2010, 05:29 PM

Back off on the load.

According to the current Alliant data, you are perilously close to the max load. The .44 Magnum, while very fun to shoot, tends to be unforgiving of an overcharge.

Second, I would chronograph that load. I load 8.5 of Unique under my own cast 250 gr. LSWC, and get 1000 fps easily out of an 8" barrel. Check your load and your data.

wcbeagle · August 16, 2010, 07:34 PM

44 Deerslayer
Could you post the loads you are using with 2400 and the 240 gr. cast swc.
bullet. I went to the Alliant web site and the load they list for the 240 gr. is 1395 fps..Would like to know what you are loading or where to get the recipe from.

Thanks.

escard · August 17, 2010, 12:15 AM

I got very fine results using Accurate Arms #7 to make "mediums" in my .41 Magnum...........I think it should also do well in your .44.....

bamaranger · August 17, 2010, 03:24 AM

I have never had much luck with mid range loads and lead slugs in .44 or .357., with fairly mild doses of Unique.

I figured the quality of the lead bullets was marginal, too much lead, not enough alloys, to soft. I went to the Speer "half jacket" SWC a result in both .357 and .44.

Now the half jackets are extinct. So...........I'm searching for some lead solution also.

Are y'all stating the a milder/slower powder, will reduce leading. I had always thought the only two variables were the hardness/quality of the slug,and low velocity. ??????????????

mtnbkr · August 17, 2010, 06:56 AM

Sounds like the bullet doesn't fit the bore. Have you slugged the barrel and mic'ed your bullets?

For "light" loads in my regular Redhawk, I use 240gr SWC "LaserCast" bullets from Oregon Trail with 6.7gr of Trail Boss. That gets me right at 1000fps from a 5.5" barrel (faster than it should be, but I've noticed that gun shoots "faster" than most). I use the same bullet with 7.2gr Unique in my 44special. Neither gun experiences any leading at all.

In my Redhawk, I get great results with .430 gaschecked bullets (driven by H110) or .431 bevel based bullets (driven by Trail Boss or Unique). I suspect Ruger has similar dimensions for the Super. I would try a .431 bullet if the current one is smaller than that.

Chris

Rifleman1776 · August 17, 2010, 08:02 AM

I have loaded and shot many thousands of hard cast Keith style bullets in my Redhawk and have never had a leading problem.
I suspect the problem is more with soft lead than your loads.
Even though I have shot some hefty charges with the Keiths, I do not recommend it as a practice because of leading. (counter arguments may begin in one minute

)
Stick with jacketed rounds for your whomper-stomper charges.

**44 AMP** · August 17, 2010, 09:07 AM

How hard are the bullets you are using? Using the old thumbnail test, for the speed you are shooting, you want something cast hard, meaning you can't gouge it with your thumbnail. A bright spot is fine, but if you can make a noticable dent, your slugs are too soft for high speed.

Second, the relationship between your bullet and barrel diameter. Excessive over or undersize slugs can lead, even when they are the right hardness for the speeds you are shooting.

Quote:

Are y'all stating the a milder/slower powder, will reduce leading.

It might, depending on the bullet, and the speed being fired. Lead bullets can have their bases melt from too "hot" a powder. This is why they developed gas checks.

Best thing to try first is to just reduce your load. My old Lyman manual lists 11.0gr Unique as max for the 250gr cast bullet, giving 1200fps. Given the difference in guns, and components, your load is top end. Drop back to 10.0gr and see if the leading persists.

salvadore · August 17, 2010, 09:12 AM

I would also slug the throats. My most recent .44 spec. flat top had .432 throats and a .429 grooves and I was shooting.430 bullets and leading up nicely. It won't matter what your bullet hardness is if you are getting gas cutting.

chiefr · August 17, 2010, 10:56 AM

Concur with 44Deerslayer
I have experimented with many different powders with the 44 mag. IMHO 2400 is the best powder for this cart. Also suggest that if you insist on cast bullets, that you use bullets with gas checks if you push your rounds over 1000fps. I too have had leading problems. Gas checks work wonders.

GeauxTide · August 17, 2010, 11:07 AM

If you're using the Missouri 15BFN bullets, then use 8-8.5gr of Unique. If you want over 1000fps, then use the 22BFN bullets.

zombie44 · August 17, 2010, 11:32 AM

2400 is great and 17gr and a 240gr hardcast is my goto plinking round. I've also used a similar load with AA#9 with good results. Blue Dot is also fun to use but sometimes I get erratic results, it's dirtier, smokier with more dramatic muzzle blast, like I said fun at times

Powderman · August 17, 2010, 11:59 AM

I have used Hornady .430 240 gr. swaged LSWC with 8.5 of unique with great success--and they're dead soft lead!! Absolutely no leading at all.

Dr. A · August 17, 2010, 01:30 PM

A quick fix besides deciding if the bullet is really suitable for your gun is to get some Lee liquid alox. Many of the factory cast suffer from ill fits to your gun with inadequate hardness and lube. This lube can solve a couple of problems at the same time. I rarely get any leading since I cast my own and use a decent lube.

shooter_from_show-me · August 17, 2010, 05:15 PM

I have had good results with 9.2 grs of Titegroup with the 18 brinell hardness Keith style bullets from MBC. This coming from a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Bill

jepp2 · August 17, 2010, 05:58 PM

Have you tried to match the pressure for the hardness of the bullets you ordered? Missouri Bullets under the technical link gives you a formula to calculate the pressure you should try to match.

http://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php

wcbeagle · August 20, 2010, 09:45 PM

I want to thank everyone for all the help with my problem. I ended up loading 8.9 grains of Unique with a Missouri Bullet Company 240 grain Keith style lead semi wad cutter with a Brinell hardness of 18. Leading was very minimal and very easy to remove from the barrel. Accuracy was tremendous. Once again, thanks for all your suggestions.

August 16, 2010, 04:59 PM	#1
wcbeagle Junior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Powhatan va Posts: 8	help with a .44 mag. load Hello I am shooting a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 mag.. I am loading 240 gr. Missouri Bullet Co. Keith style cast bullets. I am using 10.7 gr. of unique powder and win. large pistol primers. I am still getting lead build up in the bore. When I clean the barrel the lead comes out in little balls. I am hoping someone can help me with a load that won't lead the barrel. I want to use the same bullet. According to the lee manual second edition the bullet is traveling at 1152 fps.. Any info. on a good load for this bullet will be greatly appreciated

August 16, 2010, 05:22 PM	#2
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	You can either back the load down or go to a slower powder. I have found HS6 to be particularly kind to Missouri's .45/SWC bullet for the .45 Colt. More here. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

August 16, 2010, 05:26 PM	#3
44 Deerslayer Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2005 Location: MN Posts: 337	I've found the same problem with Unique, even with less powder than you are using. I don't use it in .44 Mag these days. 2400 is a much better powder for the .44 and I don't get leading even with maximum loads. __________________ Ron NRA Life Member

August 16, 2010, 05:29 PM	#4
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Back off on the load. According to the current Alliant data, you are perilously close to the max load. The .44 Magnum, while very fun to shoot, tends to be unforgiving of an overcharge. Second, I would chronograph that load. I load 8.5 of Unique under my own cast 250 gr. LSWC, and get 1000 fps easily out of an 8" barrel. Check your load and your data. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

August 17, 2010, 12:15 AM	#6
escard Member Join Date: April 20, 2010 Posts: 44	AA#7 for medium loads..... I got very fine results using Accurate Arms #7 to make "mediums" in my .41 Magnum...........I think it should also do well in your .44.....

August 16, 2010, 07:34 PM	#5
wcbeagle Junior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Powhatan va Posts: 8	44 Deerslayer Could you post the loads you are using with 2400 and the 240 gr. cast swc. bullet. I went to the Alliant web site and the load they list for the 240 gr. is 1395 fps..Would like to know what you are loading or where to get the recipe from. Thanks.

August 17, 2010, 03:24 AM	#7
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,302	no luck I have never had much luck with mid range loads and lead slugs in .44 or .357., with fairly mild doses of Unique. I figured the quality of the lead bullets was marginal, too much lead, not enough alloys, to soft. I went to the Speer "half jacket" SWC a result in both .357 and .44. Now the half jackets are extinct. So...........I'm searching for some lead solution also. Are y'all stating the a milder/slower powder, will reduce leading. I had always thought the only two variables were the hardness/quality of the slug,and low velocity. ??????????????

August 17, 2010, 06:56 AM	#8
mtnbkr Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 914	Sounds like the bullet doesn't fit the bore. Have you slugged the barrel and mic'ed your bullets? For "light" loads in my regular Redhawk, I use 240gr SWC "LaserCast" bullets from Oregon Trail with 6.7gr of Trail Boss. That gets me right at 1000fps from a 5.5" barrel (faster than it should be, but I've noticed that gun shoots "faster" than most). I use the same bullet with 7.2gr Unique in my 44special. Neither gun experiences any leading at all. In my Redhawk, I get great results with .430 gaschecked bullets (driven by H110) or .431 bevel based bullets (driven by Trail Boss or Unique). I suspect Ruger has similar dimensions for the Super. I would try a .431 bullet if the current one is smaller than that. Chris

August 17, 2010, 08:02 AM	#9
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	I have loaded and shot many thousands of hard cast Keith style bullets in my Redhawk and have never had a leading problem. I suspect the problem is more with soft lead than your loads. Even though I have shot some hefty charges with the Keiths, I do not recommend it as a practice because of leading. (counter arguments may begin in one minute ) Stick with jacketed rounds for your whomper-stomper charges.

August 17, 2010, 09:12 AM	#11
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	I would also slug the throats. My most recent .44 spec. flat top had .432 throats and a .429 grooves and I was shooting.430 bullets and leading up nicely. It won't matter what your bullet hardness is if you are getting gas cutting.

August 17, 2010, 10:56 AM	#12
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	Concur with 44Deerslayer I have experimented with many different powders with the 44 mag. IMHO 2400 is the best powder for this cart. Also suggest that if you insist on cast bullets, that you use bullets with gas checks if you push your rounds over 1000fps. I too have had leading problems. Gas checks work wonders.

August 17, 2010, 11:07 AM	#13
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	If you're using the Missouri 15BFN bullets, then use 8-8.5gr of Unique. If you want over 1000fps, then use the 22BFN bullets.

August 17, 2010, 11:32 AM	#14
zombie44 Member Join Date: June 10, 2010 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 61	2400 is great and 17gr and a 240gr hardcast is my goto plinking round. I've also used a similar load with AA#9 with good results. Blue Dot is also fun to use but sometimes I get erratic results, it's dirtier, smokier with more dramatic muzzle blast, like I said fun at times

August 17, 2010, 11:59 AM	#15
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	I have used Hornady .430 240 gr. swaged LSWC with 8.5 of unique with great success--and they're dead soft lead!! Absolutely no leading at all. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

August 17, 2010, 01:30 PM	#16
Dr. A Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2007 Location: Salina, KS. Posts: 215	A quick fix besides deciding if the bullet is really suitable for your gun is to get some Lee liquid alox. Many of the factory cast suffer from ill fits to your gun with inadequate hardness and lube. This lube can solve a couple of problems at the same time. I rarely get any leading since I cast my own and use a decent lube.

August 17, 2010, 05:15 PM	#17
shooter_from_show-me Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 231	I have had good results with 9.2 grs of Titegroup with the 18 brinell hardness Keith style bullets from MBC. This coming from a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Bill __________________ When the government fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. ~ Thomas Jefferson NRA Life Member

August 17, 2010, 05:58 PM	#18
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	Have you tried to match the pressure for the hardness of the bullets you ordered? Missouri Bullets under the technical link gives you a formula to calculate the pressure you should try to match. http://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php

August 20, 2010, 09:45 PM	#19
wcbeagle Junior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Powhatan va Posts: 8	Thanks for the help I want to thank everyone for all the help with my problem. I ended up loading 8.9 grains of Unique with a Missouri Bullet Company 240 grain Keith style lead semi wad cutter with a Brinell hardness of 18. Leading was very minimal and very easy to remove from the barrel. Accuracy was tremendous. Once again, thanks for all your suggestions.