What were the first double stack DA/SA and DAO in a major caliber?

[DMK]

What were the first double stack DA/SA and double stack DAO handguns in a major caliber?

The Hi Power was a double stack SA 9mm, and the P-38 was a DA/SA single stack 9mm. What was the first handgun to put these two features together in a 9mm or larger chambering? Beretta 92? CZ-75?

Also what was the first DAO double stack handgun in a 9mm or larger chambering?

[jmf552]

I imagine there were some prototypes that may predate this, but as far as the first major production designs, it is close to a tie between the S&W Model 59 and the Browning BDM, both introduced in 1971. The Beretta 92 did not appear until 1975 and the CZ 75 came along in 1976.

Fun facts: The double stack mag did not start with the BHP. The Savage 1907, which had been designed in 1905, had a double stack, but only in the .32 version. The first DA/SA pistol was the Austrian-made "Little Tom" pistol, although it was only made in .25 and .32, starting in 1909.

[UncleEd]

Smith & Wesson Model 59 is as good an answer as any especially in terms of sales, use, popularity.

[DMK]

Fun fact: The double stack mag did not start with the BHP. The Savage 1907, which had been designed in 1905, had a double stack.

That's right. A very popular gun too, chambered in .380 and 32ACP. I've always wanted one chambered in 32ACP for some reason. Very cool guns.

Interestingly, Savage made a few of those guns in 45ACP (probably not doublestack though) to compete against the John Browning Colt guns for the Model 1911 contract. They held up in testing almost to the end actually, though clearly the Colt entry was better.

[DMK]

as the first major production designs, it is close to a tie between the S&W Model 59 and the Browning BDM, both introduced in 1971.

I forgot all about the BDM and for some reason I thought the S&W 59 was a single stack. Must be confusing it with the model 39.

Wait a sec, wasn't the BDM designed in 1991?


So what would be the first double stack DAO?

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by DMK

Wait a sec, wasn't the BDM designed in 1991?

That's what the Gun Digest Book of Modern Gun Values says.

jmf552, are you sure there wasn't a typo in your source?

Originally Posted by DMK

So what would be the first double stack DAO?

I believe it was the HK VP70, which actually predates the S&W Model 59, having been introduced in 1970.

[DMK]

I believe it was the HK VP70, which actually predates the S&W Model 59, having been introduced in 1970.

Interesting. First poly frame too.

Striker fired gun though. No hammer. Are striker guns really DAO?

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by DMK

Are striker guns really DAO?

Oh sheesh, don't open that can of worms again.

[DMK]

Oh sheesh, don't open that can of worms again.

Oh, did we just do that?

Still curious about the first hammer fired DAO double stack though.

Probably an S&W.

[Cyanide971]

I'm probably wrong, but for a hammer fired, true revolver style DAO, I'm thinking Beretta's "D" models of the 92 and 96.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by carguychris

Oh sheesh, don't open that can of worms again.

Just wait—before you know it, some folks will be arguing about whether modern striker pistols (other than the Walther P99 and clones thereof) are really DAO because they won't lift the striker from the fully decocked position, and another dead-horse-beating contest will start about whether the S&W M&P should be considered SAO or DAO because the striker is ~95% cocked at reset...

Originally Posted by Cyanide971

I'm probably wrong, but for a hammer fired, true revolver style DAO, I'm thinking Beretta's "D" models of the 92 and 96.

I think you're wrong. Published sources indicate that the S&W Model 5946 beat the Beretta 92D out of the gate, 1989 vs. 1990. However, I swear that some other DAO hammer-fired double-stack pistol was introduced earlier than the M5946, I just can't remember what it was...

[Cyanide971]

The Ruger P-series DAO models were early players as well.

[T. O'Heir]

The HK VP70 was a colossal piece of junk too. Only firearm I've ever seen panned in a gun rag. Cooper called it a Jam-o-matic. Mind you, it was a machine pistol HK wanted to sell Stateside as a pistol.
A double-stack 15-round .45 ACP handgun designed by Colonel Isaac Newton Lewis in 1919.
The Savage 1907 was for trials only.
The Smith M59 was the first American 'WonderNine'. Then came the Beretta M92 and CZ-75. The MAB PA-15 pre-dates 'em all though. Introduced in 1966 but didn't sell well.

[RickB]

The S&W model 59 was a commercial version of an earlier pistol developed for the military as part of the "hush puppy" project for a suppressed pistol for the SEALS.
After a bit of googling, it looks like it would have been in 1969.
Not the first commercially available gun, but a hi-cap, DA/SA 9mm.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Cyanide971

The Ruger P-series DAO models were early players as well.

I initially said "Aha!" when I read this, thinking that the P85 came out this way circa 1987, but I was wrong. The Standard Catalog of Ruger Firearms indicates that the P85 Mark II DAO came out in 1990 and the P89DAO in 1991—again, beaten out of the gate by the S&W M5946.

FWIW I have Gun Digest book from ~1990 (one of their non-annual special books) with an extensive write-up on the then-new Model 5946; I'll check if it formally says that this pistol was "The First" and I'll get back to y'all on this.

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

The MAB PA-15 pre-dates 'em all though. Introduced in 1966 but didn't sell well.

Isn't the MAB PA-15 SAO?

[2ndsojourn]

carguy, I had a S&W 659 that was DA/SA and double stack made in the '80's that pre-dates the 5946. (Although that doesn't answer the OP's question either. )