The Judge

[Old Stony]

When helping a friend in a gun shop, we sold the first one we got, it made it one shot before having to send it in for warranty work. The extractor star was not aligned correctly, and if you could get a 410 shell into it....it would flow enough under the extractor to be a problem.
I agree..there are better things out there. Heck if you can't hit a snake with a .22 from a few feet away, you should be practicing more anyway.

[75218ron]

Lot of Judges sold to a lot of people for many many many years. Good snake gun.

Why not just go ahead and buy a quality gun...seems like such a waste of money. When I hear someone has a Judge, I think that they must be new or naive.

[Hal]

Heck if you can't hit a snake with a .22 from a few feet away, you should be practicing more anyway.

It's more of a "where does the shot go after the trigger is pulled" kind of thing.
A rock or stone buried just under the dirt can send a .22 bullet God knows where.
Small shot OTOH, won't travel as far or have as much energy even if it does.

[Real Gun]

Why not just go ahead and buy a quality gun...seems like such a waste of money. When I hear someone has a Judge, I think that they must be new or naive.

We should always try not to be disrespectful here. Better to focus on the guns and their application, not the owners.

[Targa]

The Judges I have ran have operated flawlessly. I don't have one and have no intention of buying one simply because there so many firearms above it on my list. Why would I consider a Judge? I am certainly not new and although I have made naive decisions (at least knee jerk) over the years, it isn't a continual state.... Nope, I would buy one because they are just flat out fun.....thats it, just flat out fun.

[Mike Irwin]

"Small shot OTOH, won't travel as far or have as much energy even if it does."

But depending on what it hits, that small shot can rebound right back at you.

I had that experience watching the tech shoot one of the first Thunder5s available back in the 1990s.

We both were peppered around the head and face with No. 6 shot that bounced off the target hanger. We were standing about 10 feet away.

Had I not been wearing eye protection, I would have lost my glasses and very likely had a badly damaged eye.


These things are far too often bought for all of the wrong reasons. People believe they're getting the power of a 12 gauge shotgun in a handgun.

People think they don't have to aim, the shot will take care of everything.

They think they're the perfect carry gun until they actually try to carry one.

I've always thought that these things are answers in search of a pertinent question, and that they've always failed to find one.

[longtimeshooter]

I only use it for home defense. 00 Buckshot in the nightstand. As a DC I would be concerned about bystanders, and the 45LC is only good for very short range with this design. If 6 .410 shots isn't enough the M4 with subsonics and 6 mags is very close by.

[ShootistPRS]

In my 45/410 pistol I tested the accuracy and velocity of both 45 Colt and 410 ammo. My gun shoots 410 slugs at higher velocity and much better accuracy than any of the 45 rounds I tested. When I carry it the gun is loaded with 410 slugs and the speed loader is too.
The only time I use shot shells is when I am in snake country - for the obvious reasons.

[Strafer Gott]

Don't use roll-crimped shotshells if you don't like donut shaped patterns. Just a suggestion. Patterns are really aggravated by the little wad. If you shoot .45 Colt or .45 acp like the Governor does, you're golden, as a .45 is almost as effective as a 9mm. ROFLMAO goodness.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This is an endless topic. The best we can ask for is informed opinions from some with expertise in self-defense and firearms (like Mike). For another view by Tom Givens pointing out the deficiencies of the gun, go to http://proarmspodcast.com/ and look for #60.

If you don't know who Tom is - you are way behind the curve on those with real expertise.

If you like it, that's great. However, it is gun that shoots but not considered a serious self-defense weapon as compared to much better options.

[Targa]

Man I must have some real expertise, none of that broadcast was surprising. Yep, shot can hit bystanders, birdshot lacks penetration, .45lc isn't as accurate due to the shallow rifling. Heck, they could of had me on that broadcast.... For a carry weapon? You need to be accountable for others you might me spraying, no way I would use one as a carry weapon short of a woods gun.
For a home defense/night stand gun? I wouldn't thumb my nose at anyone using a Judge.

[jhenry]

Those things are a solution in search of a problem.

[bedbugbilly]

This is my personal opinion so don't crucify me please - to each their own.

When I think of pistols like the Judge and when I hear about people loading them up with shot, etc. for self defense - the first thing I think of is "collateral damage" to anyone who happens to be in the way of the muzzle if someone let's loose with it for SD - and the one thing that always gets drilled into your head during a CCW class is "make sure of what is behind where you are pointing that muzzle".

The second thing I think of is that it is so popular with many because they are looking for a SD gun . . . but don't want to take the time to practice and be efficient with a standard handgun. Too many people get handguns and CCW licenses and then never take the time to practice on a regular basis to keep familiar with the handgun and how to shoot it accurately. The same goes for those who buy a home defense gun, maybe shoot it a few times and then tuck it in their nightstand drawer never to practice with it again.

Obviously there is a market for the Judge, the Governor, etc. and people buy them . . . but it's a bit of false self security to think that a load of shot or buck shot even is going to stop a perp overtime in their tracks if they are hyped up on drugs, etc. Yep. You can load them with a 45 Colt . . . but again, how often are you going to practice and are ou going to devote time once a month to put a 100 rounds downrange so you know you can hit critical mass and can you handle the recoil of a 45 Colt? If so - then more power to you. If not. then it seems to me that a person would be a lot better off with a good .380, 9mm or 38 where ammo is cheaper than the 45 Colt and monthly practice would be more practical. As far as using shot or buck shot . . . are you going to, again, devote time to practice on a frequent basis and put a 100 rounds through it each time or are you wanting to use the shot or buck shot, as you think you will hit the target in lieu of developing good shooting skills and devoting time to practice?

Just "personal thoughts" and not meant to ruffle anyone's feathers - but Im sure a lot of folks view these guns the same way I do.

[4V50 Gary]

Besides what Mike Irwin said, I don't like Taurus because of their lockwork. The transfer bar is susceptible to breakage and Taurus just can't get their metallurgy or heat treatment (if any) right on them. There are other things I don't like about their lockwork, but as I warn people, Pay now (for superior produced firearms) or pay later (down time and repair costs). I'd buy 'merican.

[jimbob86]

Bedbug, honestly, feathers need to be ruffled ( I keep chickens, and they CONSTANTLY ruffle each others, and their own, feathers.)! If everybody accepts everything put out there, and nothing gets questioned, then dumb stuff continues unchallenged.

I see two different and opposing dynamics happening today:

1) The "Don't Judge Me" thing ..... Face it, everybody judges everything...... they discriminate, make value judgments ...and if they don't , well, I'll make the judgment that they lack the courage of their convictions or lack convictions in the first place. Folks get married to their choices, and defend them way past reason ..... any unbiased, informed review of the various "shotgun revolvers" will tell you that there are better choices for whatever task you have for them, save maybe to prevent buyer's remorse.

2) The ubiquitous avalanche of information available to nearly everyone, all the time...... Had this been available in the age before folks got their feelings hurt when someone disagreed with them and stupid stuff could be referenced and rebutted with a few keystrokes .... the Judge/Thunder 5 may not have had to happen to the gun world again ....... but then again, Condition 3/Israeli Carry continues to be a thing, though the Israelis don't even do that anymore.......

[jimbob86]

There are other things I don't like about their lockwork, but as I warn people, Pay now (for superior produced firearms) or pay later (down time and repair costs). I'd buy 'merican

The thing is, Gary, that at the height of the Judge's fame and fortune, they were commanding a price point above more effective personal defense guns' prices ...... so those folks paid then, and if they actually use the guns with any frequency, they might well pay again to have them serviced by Taurus' Ppoor customer service........ at least once ..... and if they try to sell them, they'll pay yet again...... "'Merican" or not, there were, and still are, better choices...... hell, there's commie surplus guns out there that cost less, give more shots with more energy on target, and come in a smaller lighter package........ and even their goofy oddball ammo costs less than the PDXwhatever ammo ......

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by bedbugbilly

The second thing I think of is that it is so popular with many because they are looking for a SD gun . . . but don't want to take the time to practice and be efficient with a standard handgun. Too many people get handguns and CCW licenses and then never take the time to practice on a regular basis to keep familiar with the handgun and how to shoot it accurately. The same goes for those who buy a home defense gun, maybe shoot it a few times and then tuck it in their nightstand drawer never to practice with it again.

Why are you so focused on the Judge as a CCW gun? I think any .410 handgun is a bad choice for CCW'ing for the reason you listed, but for home defense, I think the Judge is a great choice. For in the home distances, most anyone who shoots even a few times a year will be able to hit a man size target under 5 yards away.

Anything under 12 yards is the Judge's specialty.

[Cheapshooter]

Two good videos for the open minded.

You be the "Judge"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVXuspaJtE
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ZDMDd4eAQO0

[Cheapshooter]

For another view by Tom Givens pointing out the deficiencies of the gun, go to http://proarmspodcast.com/ and look for #60.

Everything he says in this seven year old Interview is the same cliches debunked in many other tests. Sounds like he had an outcome in mind that he designed his test to reach. My own personal experience with my Public Defender Poly having a short 2" barrel has proven 45 Colt is as accurate as any other revolver I own out to a range that is practical to believe necessary for SD. Same thing with Federal Handgun specific 000 buckshot. The pattern at 30 feet, not the fifteen of his claims is more similar to a "group" shot from a reasonably accurate revolver. Certainly not spreading out to hit "everybody". More like hitting an assailant four times at once with a 380, and 12 times with three pulls of the trigger. As mentioned by many, birdshot patterns, even from my 2" barrel, are certainly snake dispatching density at berry patch or wood pile surprise encounter distances.

[Real Gun]

I would equate use of the Judge to many of the same defensive applications for a 12 gauge shotgun. At some point, bashing the Judge is disrespecting the 12 guage.

One should appreciate how potent a .410 can be and how practical it might be for close encounters. I wouldn't bother with slugs, since I can elect to use 45 Colt instead, practical enough at close range. I use shot small enough to pattern at 30 feet. #4 buck seems about right.

[buck460XVR]

If you don't know who Tom is - you are way behind the curve on those with real expertise.

Everyone has an opinion, just like everyone has rectal orifices. You know what they say about them both. For every ex-cop/marine, now small arms trainer, that dislikes the Judge, odds are there is one that likes them. Consider Paul Markel(you probably know him also), his credentials are just as imprssive as Tom's. Here's his review....http://gunsgunsguns.net/taurus-4510tkr/

...and his Bio....http://www.ammoland.com/author/paul-...#axzz4cFIT7D9t

The most important sentence of the whole review......and is true for any firearm use for SD/HD.

The key to using the Judge effectively is knowledge and training. Load it with the right ammunition for the task you hope to accomplish.

Love it or hate it, it doesn't matter. I myself don't own one, nor do I ever intend to, but I still respect the choice of others to. Seems on these type of gun forums, Folks tend to want to show some form of superiority over others by dissing their choice/choices of firearms, generally by claiming the firearm is foolish, impractical or "a answer looking for a question". Thing is, it is someone else's choice and choice is, and should be a personal thing. While I have friends with spouse's that don't match my idea as the "perfect" mate, should I criticize them openly on a social forum on their foolishness? Folks need to get over themselves. No one knows what is best for someone else they have never met, have no idea what scenarios they encounter or how much expertise they have in handling firearms. Assuming that everyone buys a Judge because they know nothing about guns and are too lazy to practice is more foolishness than any gun purchase. If we want folks to respect us and our choices, we need to do the same towards them.

[jimbob86]

At some point, bashing the Judge is disrespecting the 12 guage.

About as much as bashing a wiffle bat is disrespecting a Louisville Slugger.....

One should appreciate how potent a .410 can be and how practical it might be for close encounters.

It'd be better than harsh words, as it's a gun, but there are better answers to the problem, in smaller packages, at lower price points, and from more reputable companies.

[peggysue]

I do not hate Taurus.
One of my favorite I carry is my rare 450Ti in 45 colt. A beautiful titanium ported snubbie. It was dropped because it was too expensive to produce. As with any light weight big caliber revolver the ammo must be well crimped or it well pull say cowboy loads.
If you every come across one buy it. Any caliber you can find.

Peace

[Glenn E. Meyer]

As far as criticizing choices - choosing and using an instrument of lethal force is a rather important decision. Expressing reasoned opinions about a bad choice is part and parcel of discussion.

I would prefer telling someone that their choice is not optimal and/or dangerous. If they can't take that and want to wallow in the conviction that they are correct, that is their personal problem.

Of course, we should be polite but telling them that they are uninformed and making a bad decision is a reason for discussion. I'm not to say - OK, if you want to use XYZ, three cheers for you.

Learn how to use a SW Model 10 or Glock 19 (or similar) for home defense and cut the crap of thinking some magic gimmick will substitute for competence.

[Targa]

I would prefer telling someone that their choice is not optimal and/or dangerous. If they can't take that and want to wallow in the conviction that they are correct, that is their personal problem.

If, for example, my not agreeing with you equates to self wallowing and a personal problem......yeh, I'm good with that.

Learn how to use a SW Model 10 or Glock 19 (or similar) for home defense and cut the crap of thinking some magic gimmick will substitute for competence.

Your arrogance is turning into a bit much, because someone has something "gimmicky" in your opinion for home defense does not necassarily mean they are replacing competence with that gimmick.