44 Magnum and Beyond

[CDR_Glock]

So I started out with a few 357 Magnums. I swore I wouldn't go higher. For years he joked saying he would convert me. I refused. Then one day I said I thought I was ready. I saw one at a gun show and almost bought it. My friend sold me his 44 Magnum Performance Center 629 7.5" Hunter with an Aimpoint H1, a Dillon Progressive and reloading supplies (powder, bullets, primer and cases). An offer I couldn't refuse.

I took to it well and realized it wasn't that bad.

Then I wondered what all the hype was for larger revolvers. I traded for a 454 Casull, and realized that recoil was not bad. It was loud, but not unpleasant. It was fun, and I got an adrenaline rush.

So I stepped up to the 500 S&W. Again, not bad in the length I chose, 6.5". Very accurate. Very powerful.

But I felt a gap. I wanted velocity and power, too. I figured I could use something flatter shooting which could also be used for hunting. So I had to get the 460 XVR.

I'm configuring everything with Red Dots. Two have Aimpoints. But I tried a Primary Arms Advanced Microdot, and it's taking the recoil of the Smith 500 like a champ. They're rated for high velocity like 12 gauges and 308. I put 35 rounds through my 500. Super fun. I would have shot more if I had more.

Obviously I will be reloading for these revolvers. I just ordered dies for the 460. I already have the equipment for the 44, Casull and 500.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[disseminator]

FYI, you can cancel your order for 460 dies and use the 45 colt or 454 Casull dies you already have.

Yes, really. I bought a set of carbide Redding 460 dies and they were $90 and I hate them. They oversize the brass like crazy. I contacted Redding and they told me to only size the part of the brass where I'll seat the bullet and no farther.

I can full length resize 454 AND 460 with my RCBS Carbide 45 Colt dies. And the end result is much better. In fact, the sizing die included in my 460 die set is marked "45Colt / 454Casull"

FWIW.....

Nice looking revolvers BTW, I just picked up a S&W Model 29 Classic 6.5" to go with my 8-3/8" XVR and Ruger Vaquero 45 Colt.

[random guy]

You have a nice stable of powerful revolvers there.

There is a mystique about powerful guns, at least to some of us. Others (often quite experienced and skilled) want nothing to do with them. In reality few of us need so much power and too many rounds through them will cultivate a flinch which we have laboriously trained out of ourselves.

So what is the attraction? To me it was just the knowledge of what things look like out on the edges. How they behave.

Like you, I started with a .357 which was quickly traded for .44 Mag which then became several. I got a .45/70 Contender as an inexpensive route to a real handcannon and handloaded it was pretty potent but not that bad to shoot. At that point I thought "Gee, maybe I don't have any limits". So when the stronger Encore appeared, I got a .45/70 and loaded it up to about 3300 ft/lbs energy. I had found my limit and exceeded it although the gun seemed unphased. I truly do not miss that gun. Very unpleasant.

I've had a couple of .500s (8-3/8" and 4") and the porting on them really tames muzzle rise. The long one is very accurate. Still, I think that this cartridge is about the limit in conventional revolvers. There are some peculiarities that need to be solved or loadings tamed down a bit. This works out well as the guns are at the practical limits of pressure and legal limit of size anyway. This is "the edge" and barring some technological leap, may remain so for a while.

[Lohman446]

When taking risks one must ask themselves:

What is it that I hope to gain?

Is this gain available with less / no risk?

In Keiths day he was hoping to push to the top of the pack in regards to handgun power. Hence pushing the envelope with .44 Special hoped to make a gain that was not already available.

Today you have the gain already available. Push that .44 Special to the absolute max and you have still not broken new ground.

[disseminator]

Not sure what risks your referring to, these are factory guns shooting the intended ammo so??

As for developing a flinch: not all of us are as sensitive to recoil as others.

And finally, shooting is supposed to be fun. Big hand cannons are fun. Go to range or woods, shoot, smile, repeat.

[Loosedhorse]

Originally Posted by random guy

So what is the attraction?

Well, some people don't like spicy food. Some do, but consider jalapeños VERY spicy. And some feel that jalapeños are just the first step into a very fun place.

too many rounds through them will cultivate a flinch...

Well, it could do that...unless your whole point is training to shoot them without a flinch. Ball-and-dummy drills, so that you never know if the next hammer fall is going to go bang or click, are a great way of detecting flinch early and working on overcoming it.

Still, there is no better way to cause a flinch than to injure yourself. I like to take precautions, such as GREAT ear protection (there can be a lot of noise from these guns), gloves with wrist support, etc. Learning how do something properly--safely, without pain or injury, and accurately--is a big part of the challenge, and of the fun.

Oh, and sometimes the recoil's a lot less than you thought. I've tried a .460 revolver--long barrel and impressive muzzle brake--and its recoil is no worse than a .44 Magnum. Working to get nice groups at 200 yards, now that's a challenge. And fun.

If you haven't tried one yet, come on over the next time you see one of us with a boomer on the range. We'll set it up with a lighter load and let you try (if you want), and if you like it, well...

[bassJAM1]

Jeesh, I must be one of those recoil sensitive people. I can shoot a 4" .357 all day and be fine, even my harder kicking 337 Airlight Ti doesn't bother me with +p's, but if I take out my 6" .44 mag I'll start flinching after a few cylinders. I only have the .44 because I inherited it, and I really don't have a desire to own or shoot anything larger than that!

[random guy]

Originally Posted by random guy
So what is the attraction?

That was actually a rhetorical question which I answered in the next line.

If you haven't tried one yet, come on over the next time you see one of us with a boomer on the range. We'll set it up with a lighter load and let you try (if you want), and if you like it, well...

Yeah, I'll be sure and do that...lol

[Loosedhorse]

Originally Posted by random guy

That was actually a rhetorical question which I answered in the next line.

You didn't "answer" the question. You supplied your answer. I supplied mine, which was different.

For example, you said, "In reality few of us need so much power..."; so I explained this isn't about need* (for me); it's about fun and challenge.

In any case, happy to read your views. Thanks.


*Odd, this "need" business. Anti-gunners love to tell us which guns we "don't need", like "assault weapons" for example. I guess, since I've never had to fire a gun in self-defense, I don't really "need" my SD guns. LOL.

[buck460XVR]

In reality few of us need so much power and too many rounds through them will cultivate a flinch which we have laboriously trained out of ourselves.

True. There are a few folks that will cultivate a flinch. Then there are others that will not. Many of those guns in the OP pics are heavy enough and ported to tame recoil to the point they are actually as pleasant, if not more, to shoot as a 4" .357. I see folks shooting tiny LCPs develop a flinch too. I don't understand the reasoning that bigger guns are more prone to make folks flinch.

Really big bores are not for everyone, as you said, in reality only a few folks need that much power. But then most folks don't need 30 round mags for their ARs or 15 rounders for their compact handguns. Need and want when it comes to firearms is generally two different things. For some of us that hunt deer using handguns as our primary weapons, we feel we want that much power.......even if others feel we don't need it.

[B.L.E.]

Originally Posted by bassJAM1

Jeesh, I must be one of those recoil sensitive people. I can shoot a 4" .357 all day and be fine, even my harder kicking 337 Airlight Ti doesn't bother me with +p's, but if I take out my 6" .44 mag I'll start flinching after a few cylinders. I only have the .44 because I inherited it, and I really don't have a desire to own or shoot anything larger than that!

I own a S&W model 29 with a 6" barrel and I mostly load down to slightly above .44 Special power levels, simply because they are more fun to shoot once the novelty of shooting a big boomer wears off.
My main objection to .500 S&W Magnum and .454 Casulls is that you have this long barreled 5 pound horse pistol that is so heavy and long that you might just as well lug around a .30-30 carbine, especially once you add the pistol scope. It misses the whole point of a pistol!

The same thing holds true in extreme motorcycles. I sold the 1200cc sport bike I owned and bought a small 300cc street bike because I needed to get 70 mpg a lot more than I needed to double the speed limit.
I love that little bike. What I lost in acceleration and top speed, I more than made up for in agility and cornering ability. It's just way more fun to ride. I now refer to those extreme motorcycles as "help, I've fallen down and I can't pick my bike back up" motorcycles.
And I can get 35 mpg in a car! These extreme bikes miss the whole point of a motorcycle!

I'm not putting down your choice of handguns, I'm just making the case for the less extreme calibers.

[22-rimfire]

I like revolvers and I like big boomers. But it gets to the point of why I am punishing my wrists on these guns... for what purpose?

The purpose was deer hunting. Yeah. I could use my 41 mag too. My big boomer is the 475 Linebaugh/480 Ruger. I understand the urge perfectly with these 44 mag+ guns. I have settled down and don't lust for a 500 S&W.

So, you can shoot them and deal with the recoil.... buy why are you shooting them in the first place? Just for the fun of it?

[buck460XVR]

But it gets to the point of why I am punishing my wrists on these guns... for what purpose?

So, you can shoot them and deal with the recoil.... buy why are you shooting them in the first place? Just for the fun of it?

Like I said before, many times, the platforms designed specifically for the really big bores can be as pleasant to shoot as .357s and .44s. Folks are on these types of forums all the time asking about "Ruger only" loads and +p+ loads for CWC guns. In both cases, the platforms are not really designed for them and will punish one's wrists more than the X-Frames. In many cases, the accuracy suffers because of the nasty recoil and the fact that those platforms have fixed sights regulated for standard ammo. Folks brag all the time about their "hot" loads in their .357s and .44s, risking damage to not only their wrists, but the guns themselves. Yet the same folks constantly make condescending statements about why others need anything larger than a .44.

Shooting the big boomers just for the fun of it is certainly a legitimate reason. The reason I shoot most all of my handguns is for fun. No different than shooting Sporting Clays. I have yet to figure out how to cook those little flat round birds and make them edible. So I pays my monies, reload my hulls and go back once a week. Those weeks when I shoot a double round, I sometimes end up with a bruise on my shoulder. What am I thinking!

[22-rimfire]

The hot load thing with 357 is something I could never really understand when there are very good calibers that are just a bit more with normal loads. Yes, I can see doing it for the heck of it, but why bother continuing to do it?

I suppose if that is all you have, then you work with that caliber. But if it is a serious interest to the hot 357 mag person, I would bounce up the food chain a little and see where that leads.

[Paul105]

Started with a .38 special M&P M10 back in the late 50s. Traded for a 4 5/8” Ruger Flattop and a 4” M19. Added a Mil Surplus Rem Rand 1911 from a local pawn shop.

Got my first .44 Mag -- 7 ½” Super Blackhawk in the early 70s. The SBH and M19 (along with some others) were stolen. Used the insurance money to buy a M29, which I sent to magnaport arms to be customized (5” bbl, action job, hard chrome and porting). A little later, Ross Seyfried started writing about 5 shot .45 colts and later the 475 and 500 LBs.

Finally managed to buy a Freedom Arms 6” .454 in the late 80s. Shot it a fair amount over time. Have since added a .45 Colt cylinder. Still have some .454 ammo loaded, but the gun mostly sees Ruger level .45 Colt at this point.

Added a .475 Linebaugh in the 3rd Qtr of 2007. Was getting a bit older and figured if I was going to do big bores, I would have to start soon. Shot over 15,000 rounds (mostly 400gr +- at 1,150 fps) thru the gun over the next three years. Had a lot of fun and proved to myself that I could do it. Last full house .475 (420gr at 1,300 fps) I shot was a couple of years ago. During that same time period, I shot at least 20,000 rounds thru the little FA97 .45 Colt and another 8,000 or so thru the S&W 329.

More recently, I have added a 5” .500 JRH and.480 Ruger 2 ½” snubby. Early on, I cranked these up to satisfy my curiosity regarding recoil. The .500 JRH is too much of a good thing with heavy bullets at top velocities, so it is now loaded more moderately. Nothing to sneeze at with 380 to 440gr bullets at 1,000 fps. The Ruger .480 isn’t bad recoil wise with factory level ammo.

I turned 70 last year, and the “big bores” with full house loads are no longer manageable for me – don’t have the hand strength to control the single actions. Still shoot/enjoy the guns but with more sedate loads.

Always wanted a 4” .500 S&W X Frame. Never got around to it and most likely won’t at this point.

Everyone should satisfy that “big bore urge” – I look back on my journey with fond memories.

My go to gun these days is the New S&W M69 L-Frame .44 Mag.

Not very good pictures -- I tried to enhance with Photobucket to no avail.

Top gun .475 Linebaugh -- weighs 48.5 oz. Bottom gun FA97 5 1/2" .44 Special weighs 37 oz



Top gun 500 JRH (1.4" 500 S&W IIRC) Weighs 47.5 Oz. Bottom gun 4 1/4" FA97 .45 Colt weighs 35.7 oz.




FWIW,

Paul

[Loosedhorse]

What beautiful revolvers. You can't fake craftsmanship; nor can you hide it.

Always wanted a 4” .500 S&W X Frame. Never got around to it and most likely won’t at this point.

I hope you'll understand, given the pictures you've shared, if I don't get out my hanky and weep for you.


PS: Love the .475 Linebaugh. I've got a Bowen-converted 5" Ruger SRH, so no one need get a hanky out for me, either!