Advice, please! .30 Caliber vs 30-06 vs 30-30...

Biff Tannen · January 20, 2013, 10:15 PM

Ok, I've recently inherited an M-1 30 Caliber...
Being a handgun guy, and never had a rifle before, I've done hours of research to find out how the .30 Caliber round relates to 30-30 and 30-06.
The more I read about it, the more confused I am.
Are they the same bullet fired out of different casings?
Are they similar?
Or are they different rounds all together?
Sorry to ask such an elementary question, but I'm not a rifle guy, have done fruitless research, and would appreciate the explanation!
Thank you much, and God Bless The US!

1stmar · January 20, 2013, 10:24 PM

Hi biff they have vastly different ballistics but some similarities:
Both are bottleneck cartridges
They are both 308 diameter bullets
They both fire bullet weights ranging from 110gr-170gr (30-06 up to 220gr)

That's about where the similarities end

The velocities are drastically different
160 gr 30-30 runs about 1600fps
165gr 3006 runs about 2700fps

30-30 usually is a lever action cartridge so bullets used are usually fp or rn
3006 is usually a bolt, spire points, hollow points etc

Is there something specific you are looking for? 308 is much closer ballistically to 3006. 35 rem much closer ballistically to 30-30

Biff Tannen · January 20, 2013, 10:29 PM

1stmar:
Thanks you much!!
But how does the .30 Caliber M-1 Carbine fit into the equation?
Or doesn't it???

mxsailor803 · January 20, 2013, 10:29 PM

If its a Carbine, it would be .30 carbine. Not a bad round at all. Just don't expect much over 150ish yds.

PetahW · January 20, 2013, 10:38 PM

The M-1 (.30 caliber) is chambered for the .30-06 Springfield cartridge - a bottle-necked, rimless cartridge that fires 6 different weights of 0.308" diameter pointed & RN jacketed bullets from 110gr through 220 grs, at around 2500fps (in factory guises).
The .30-06 is a 1906 revision of the previous, short-lived, 1903 Springfield cartridge (the .30-03).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The .30-30 Winchester, aka .30WCF, dates from 1895, and is also bottle-necked case, but shorter than the .30-06, and has a rimmed case (with a rim like a shotshell), that historically fires 2 different weights of flat or RN jacketed bullets of 150gr or 170gr, at around 1900fps (in factory guise).
There are modern .30-30 offerings that feature different (lighter) bullet weights with a pointed soft plastic tip, especially made for better ballistics in leverguns with tubular magazines.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The WWII .30 M1 Carbine cartridge is a short, almost pistol-length, straight rimless case that also fires .308" bullets, but in the 110gr range.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

In the below pic, the 7.62 = the .308 Winchester, which is similar to the .30-06, but is 1/2" shorter.

.

Biff Tannen · January 20, 2013, 10:47 PM

Quote:

PetahW wrote:
The M-1 (.30 caliber) is chambered for the .30-06 Springfield cartridge - a bottle-necked, rimless cartridge that fires 6 different weights of 0.308" diameter pointed & RN jacketed bullets from 110gr through 220 grs, at around 2500fps (in factory guises).
The .30-06 is a 1906 revision of the previous, short-lived, 1903 Springfield cartridge (the .30-03).

Ok, this is where I get confused...
Does this mean that .30 Caliber, 30-30, and 30-06 are all .308" rounds fired out of different casings for different purposes?
Sorry for the 101 questions, but can you please please please dumb this down a bit for us city slickers who only know handguns?
Thanks for your patience!

Alabama Shooter · January 20, 2013, 10:48 PM

Here is picture to get things to scale:

All three use 7.62 mm diameter bullets but case sizes and shapes are dramatically different.
The .30-30 was a sporting hunting cartridge for lever action rifles.
The .30-06 was an early rimless military design that was used in 1903 Springfield v2 and the M1 Garand.
The .30 Carbine was originally used in the M1 Carbine.

Here is an M1 Carbine and an M1 Garand:

And a 94 carbine reproduction:

Biff Tannen · January 20, 2013, 10:53 PM

Alabama Shooter:
Thank you so much for that!
It's starting to sink in and make sense!

PetahW · January 20, 2013, 10:58 PM

It'll never make sense - there's easily a few dozen different .30 cal (.308" diameter / bulleted) cartridges with differing lengths & widths, and rimless, rimmed, belted or rebated rim cases - of American & foreign origins, both factory-made & "wildcat" (amateur experimental).

That's only part of what makes guns so interesting........

.

TheDoubleDeuce · January 20, 2013, 11:10 PM

I have an M1 carbine, a 30-30 marlin lever, and a 7.62x54r mosin nagant (roughly 30-06).

My M1 has a thirty round magazine, and since it's not firing very energetic rounds, it's very manageable. I would use it for short to medium range small game.

My Marlin lever has a little more recoil and power at the expense of capacity because of its larger rounds (and tubular design). It has roughly twice the energy of the M1. I would use it as a brush gun for deer.

My mosin holds five rounds. It is roughly twice as powerful as the 30-30, and it is long and unwieldy. I would use it for longer range shots on deer-size game and above.

Obviously, capacity, fire rate and effective range vary based on the platform. But hopefully that gives you an idea of the variation in size and energy between some of the 30 caliber rounds.

PS - Now Biff, don't con me!

jmr40 · January 20, 2013, 11:13 PM

A 30 carbine shoots a 110 gr bullet @ roughly 2100 fps
A 30-30 shoots a 150 gr bullet @ roughly 2100 fps
A 308 shoots a 150 gr bullet @ roughly 2900 fps
A 30-06 shoots a 150 gr bullet @ roughly 3000 fps
A 300 magnum shoots a 150 gr bullet @ roughly 3400 fps

There will be individual differences with varying loads and rifles, but you can see that not all .30 caliber rifles are equal.

chris in va · January 21, 2013, 04:08 AM

JMR pretty well sums it up.

"30 caliber" is the diameter of the BULLET, not the CARTRIDGE. It's what comes out of the barrel.

These BULLETS come in different weights and shapes, depending on what is shooting it.

For example 50 caliber could mean a huge 50BMG used in a large machine gun, or it could be a bullet fired from a Desert Eagle handgun.

Very simplified explanation but you get the idea.

Pilot · January 21, 2013, 06:53 AM

To the OP. These are three VERY DIFFERENT rifle cartridges that have nothing in common other than a .30 diameter projectile. The shell casings are all very different, and the projectiles (bullets) are all very different. They share nothing in common, again other than the DIAMETER of the bullet.

They are distinct and seperate rifle rounds with much different performance characterisitcs, shapes, and sizes. Just want to be very clear.

hodaka · January 21, 2013, 09:09 AM

Biff, which M-1 did you inherit, the carbine or the Garand? If you said, I missed it.

Biff Tannen · January 21, 2013, 10:06 PM

ALL:
Wow, thank you, this gives me a lot to think about and a better grip on the research ahead of me...
Again, any other further insight is very welcomed indeed!

hodaka:
I inherited the 30 caliber M1 Carbine. Thank you for asking!

Magnum Wheel Man · January 22, 2013, 11:15 AM

the 30 carbine, probably most closely equals a 357 magnum ( to put it into perspective ) however the rifling twist rate, & the rifles designed pressure limits, keep it from being loaded with heavier bullets that are typically found in other 30 caliber rifles ( or 357 magnum for that matter )

the cartridge is in fact so "pistol like" that Ruger makes a single action revolver chambered for "30 Carbine"

I think the design was to actually work similarly to the 1911 45 auto for military use...

... the 30 Carbine has not proven to be a "reliable stopper" for deer size game, ( with the lighter weight bullets, & the FMJ bullet design as is most often found ) even though it is legal to use in many states... the 30 WCF / 30-30 has much more energy, & taken alot of deer over the years... .308 Winchester / 30-06 are similar cartridges, by design, but the .308 is a shorter cartridge, which have found favor in both military & sporting use, over the older & longer 30-06 cartridge...

Alabama Shooter · January 22, 2013, 11:49 AM

The .30 Carbine rifle while anemic is really fun to shoot and has a bit of collector value. That is fine carbine you have inherited.

TheDoubleDeuce · January 22, 2013, 11:55 AM

I will second the fun factor. This weekend I loaded up some 30 round magazines and pinged the 200 yard gong all day long with iron sights. Easy on the shoulder and not to expensive to shoot, and a great piece of history to boot.

hodaka · January 22, 2013, 12:19 PM

And they will really open up an armadillo.

chris in va · January 23, 2013, 07:46 PM

Biff, please wear good eye protection while shooting the M1carbine. The design allows it to fire when the ammo case isn't quite chambered, causing a blowout of the case head that showers your face with burning propellant.

Not trying to scare you, just something you might want to know.

Grump · January 24, 2013, 12:26 AM

Both M1 designs are *supposed to* mechanically retract the firing pin the last 1/8-inch or so of bolt movement forward, making a slam-fire impossible. The FP cannot extend to the firing position until the bolt is rotated at least 1/2 way into the locked position.

UNLESS parts are either worn or out of spec. Wear has happened with both USGI and commercial production units, out of spec AFAIK has only been with commercial production.

The parts to watch are the interface of the firing pin tang and the rear of the receiver bridge. A hint of a mark from the firing pin on a chambered round is normal, from the rattling back and forth the firing pin can do during the feed cycle.

Both designs CAN slam-fire with a combination of a high primer AND spherical powder in the load, which gets into the bottom of the primer pocket...that can be a fully open bolt ignition, most ugly.

Let's be careful out there, okay? Me, I've NEVER had a problem with five specimens of the various designs, and almost all rounds fired being reloads.

M4BGRINGO · January 24, 2013, 12:46 AM

The .30 carbine round is fun, but I use a Ruger single action revolver to send them down-range, not a carbine.

Biff Tannen · January 24, 2013, 05:46 AM

chris in va said:

Quote:

Biff, please wear good eye protection while shooting the M1carbine. The design allows it to fire when the ammo case isn't quite chambered, causing a blowout of the case head that showers your face with burning propellant.

Holy Cow! Is this a misfire situation, or is there consistent powder projection?

hodaka · January 24, 2013, 12:57 PM

Biff,

I would estimate the odds of an out of battery detonation with a carbine in good shape are somewhere between being hit by a meteor and being hit by a truck when crossing the street. It can happen, but probably not. I have 2 and shoot only reloads and have never had a problem. Still wearing shooting glasses is always a good idea, even when shooting a BB gun.

Art Eatman · January 24, 2013, 12:59 PM

Biff, I'd have to call it a very rare occurrence, given that I've never seen or heard of it over the years. I don't doubt that it CAN happen, but I wouldn't worry about it.

When "high primers" and "spherical powder" are mentioned, that's nowhere near a common situation. Not with any factory ammo I've seen, anyway.

I've only shot GI and Federal ammo in my Carbine.

January 20, 2013, 10:15 PM	#1
Biff Tannen Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2010 Location: Hill Valley Posts: 265	Advice, please! .30 Caliber vs 30-06 vs 30-30... Ok, I've recently inherited an M-1 30 Caliber... Being a handgun guy, and never had a rifle before, I've done hours of research to find out how the .30 Caliber round relates to 30-30 and 30-06. The more I read about it, the more confused I am. Are they the same bullet fired out of different casings? Are they similar? Or are they different rounds all together? Sorry to ask such an elementary question, but I'm not a rifle guy, have done fruitless research, and would appreciate the explanation! Thank you much, and God Bless The US! __________________ - BIFF TANNEN - The great-grandson of Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen.

January 20, 2013, 10:24 PM	#2
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	Hi biff they have vastly different ballistics but some similarities: Both are bottleneck cartridges They are both 308 diameter bullets They both fire bullet weights ranging from 110gr-170gr (30-06 up to 220gr) That's about where the similarities end The velocities are drastically different 160 gr 30-30 runs about 1600fps 165gr 3006 runs about 2700fps 30-30 usually is a lever action cartridge so bullets used are usually fp or rn 3006 is usually a bolt, spire points, hollow points etc Is there something specific you are looking for? 308 is much closer ballistically to 3006. 35 rem much closer ballistically to 30-30 Last edited by 1stmar; January 21, 2013 at 09:13 AM.

January 20, 2013, 10:29 PM	#3
Biff Tannen Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2010 Location: Hill Valley Posts: 265	1stmar: Thanks you much!! But how does the .30 Caliber M-1 Carbine fit into the equation? Or doesn't it??? __________________ - BIFF TANNEN - The great-grandson of Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen.

January 20, 2013, 10:29 PM	#4
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	M-1 Carbine? If its a Carbine, it would be .30 carbine. Not a bad round at all. Just don't expect much over 150ish yds.

January 20, 2013, 10:38 PM	#5
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	The M-1 (.30 caliber) is chambered for the .30-06 Springfield cartridge - a bottle-necked, rimless cartridge that fires 6 different weights of 0.308" diameter pointed & RN jacketed bullets from 110gr through 220 grs, at around 2500fps (in factory guises). The .30-06 is a 1906 revision of the previous, short-lived, 1903 Springfield cartridge (the .30-03). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The .30-30 Winchester, aka .30WCF, dates from 1895, and is also bottle-necked case, but shorter than the .30-06, and has a rimmed case (with a rim like a shotshell), that historically fires 2 different weights of flat or RN jacketed bullets of 150gr or 170gr, at around 1900fps (in factory guise). There are modern .30-30 offerings that feature different (lighter) bullet weights with a pointed soft plastic tip, especially made for better ballistics in leverguns with tubular magazines. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The WWII .30 M1 Carbine cartridge is a short, almost pistol-length, straight rimless case that also fires .308" bullets, but in the 110gr range. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In the below pic, the 7.62 = the .308 Winchester, which is similar to the .30-06, but is 1/2" shorter. . Last edited by PetahW; January 20, 2013 at 10:54 PM.

January 20, 2013, 10:48 PM	#7
Alabama Shooter Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: Sweet Home Posts: 886	Here is picture to get things to scale: All three use 7.62 mm diameter bullets but case sizes and shapes are dramatically different. The .30-30 was a sporting hunting cartridge for lever action rifles. The .30-06 was an early rimless military design that was used in 1903 Springfield v2 and the M1 Garand. The .30 Carbine was originally used in the M1 Carbine. Here is an M1 Carbine and an M1 Garand: And a 94 carbine reproduction: __________________ Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.

January 20, 2013, 10:53 PM	#8
Biff Tannen Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2010 Location: Hill Valley Posts: 265	Alabama Shooter: Thank you so much for that! It's starting to sink in and make sense! __________________ - BIFF TANNEN - The great-grandson of Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen.

January 20, 2013, 10:58 PM	#9
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	It'll never make sense - there's easily a few dozen different .30 cal (.308" diameter / bulleted) cartridges with differing lengths & widths, and rimless, rimmed, belted or rebated rim cases - of American & foreign origins, both factory-made & "wildcat" (amateur experimental). That's only part of what makes guns so interesting........ .

January 20, 2013, 11:10 PM	#10
TheDoubleDeuce Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2013 Posts: 115	I have an M1 carbine, a 30-30 marlin lever, and a 7.62x54r mosin nagant (roughly 30-06). My M1 has a thirty round magazine, and since it's not firing very energetic rounds, it's very manageable. I would use it for short to medium range small game. My Marlin lever has a little more recoil and power at the expense of capacity because of its larger rounds (and tubular design). It has roughly twice the energy of the M1. I would use it as a brush gun for deer. My mosin holds five rounds. It is roughly twice as powerful as the 30-30, and it is long and unwieldy. I would use it for longer range shots on deer-size game and above. Obviously, capacity, fire rate and effective range vary based on the platform. But hopefully that gives you an idea of the variation in size and energy between some of the 30 caliber rounds. PS - Now Biff, don't con me! Last edited by TheDoubleDeuce; January 20, 2013 at 11:22 PM.

January 20, 2013, 11:13 PM	#11
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,803	A 30 carbine shoots a 110 gr bullet @ roughly 2100 fps A 30-30 shoots a 150 gr bullet @ roughly 2100 fps A 308 shoots a 150 gr bullet @ roughly 2900 fps A 30-06 shoots a 150 gr bullet @ roughly 3000 fps A 300 magnum shoots a 150 gr bullet @ roughly 3400 fps There will be individual differences with varying loads and rifles, but you can see that not all .30 caliber rifles are equal.

January 21, 2013, 04:08 AM	#12
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	JMR pretty well sums it up. "30 caliber" is the diameter of the BULLET, not the CARTRIDGE. It's what comes out of the barrel. These BULLETS come in different weights and shapes, depending on what is shooting it. For example 50 caliber could mean a huge 50BMG used in a large machine gun, or it could be a bullet fired from a Desert Eagle handgun. Very simplified explanation but you get the idea.

January 21, 2013, 06:53 AM	#13
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	To the OP. These are three VERY DIFFERENT rifle cartridges that have nothing in common other than a .30 diameter projectile. The shell casings are all very different, and the projectiles (bullets) are all very different. They share nothing in common, again other than the DIAMETER of the bullet. They are distinct and seperate rifle rounds with much different performance characterisitcs, shapes, and sizes. Just want to be very clear. __________________ Pilot

January 21, 2013, 09:09 AM	#14
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Biff, which M-1 did you inherit, the carbine or the Garand? If you said, I missed it.

January 21, 2013, 10:06 PM	#15
Biff Tannen Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2010 Location: Hill Valley Posts: 265	ALL: Wow, thank you, this gives me a lot to think about and a better grip on the research ahead of me... Again, any other further insight is very welcomed indeed! hodaka: I inherited the 30 caliber M1 Carbine. Thank you for asking! __________________ - BIFF TANNEN - The great-grandson of Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen.

January 22, 2013, 11:15 AM	#16
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	the 30 carbine, probably most closely equals a 357 magnum ( to put it into perspective ) however the rifling twist rate, & the rifles designed pressure limits, keep it from being loaded with heavier bullets that are typically found in other 30 caliber rifles ( or 357 magnum for that matter ) the cartridge is in fact so "pistol like" that Ruger makes a single action revolver chambered for "30 Carbine" I think the design was to actually work similarly to the 1911 45 auto for military use... ... the 30 Carbine has not proven to be a "reliable stopper" for deer size game, ( with the lighter weight bullets, & the FMJ bullet design as is most often found ) even though it is legal to use in many states... the 30 WCF / 30-30 has much more energy, & taken alot of deer over the years... .308 Winchester / 30-06 are similar cartridges, by design, but the .308 is a shorter cartridge, which have found favor in both military & sporting use, over the older & longer 30-06 cartridge... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 22, 2013, 11:49 AM	#17
Alabama Shooter Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: Sweet Home Posts: 886	The .30 Carbine rifle while anemic is really fun to shoot and has a bit of collector value. That is fine carbine you have inherited. __________________ Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.

January 22, 2013, 11:55 AM	#18
TheDoubleDeuce Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2013 Posts: 115	I will second the fun factor. This weekend I loaded up some 30 round magazines and pinged the 200 yard gong all day long with iron sights. Easy on the shoulder and not to expensive to shoot, and a great piece of history to boot.

January 22, 2013, 12:19 PM	#19
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	And they will really open up an armadillo.

January 23, 2013, 07:46 PM	#20
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Biff, please wear good eye protection while shooting the M1carbine. The design allows it to fire when the ammo case isn't quite chambered, causing a blowout of the case head that showers your face with burning propellant. Not trying to scare you, just something you might want to know.

January 24, 2013, 12:26 AM	#21
Grump Member Join Date: October 22, 2008 Posts: 73	Both M1 designs are supposed to mechanically retract the firing pin the last 1/8-inch or so of bolt movement forward, making a slam-fire impossible. The FP cannot extend to the firing position until the bolt is rotated at least 1/2 way into the locked position. UNLESS parts are either worn or out of spec. Wear has happened with both USGI and commercial production units, out of spec AFAIK has only been with commercial production. The parts to watch are the interface of the firing pin tang and the rear of the receiver bridge. A hint of a mark from the firing pin on a chambered round is normal, from the rattling back and forth the firing pin can do during the feed cycle. Both designs CAN slam-fire with a combination of a high primer AND spherical powder in the load, which gets into the bottom of the primer pocket...that can be a fully open bolt ignition, most ugly. Let's be careful out there, okay? Me, I've NEVER had a problem with five specimens of the various designs, and almost all rounds fired being reloads.

January 24, 2013, 12:46 AM	#22
M4BGRINGO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2011 Posts: 256	The .30 carbine round is fun, but I use a Ruger single action revolver to send them down-range, not a carbine.

January 24, 2013, 12:57 PM	#24
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Biff, I would estimate the odds of an out of battery detonation with a carbine in good shape are somewhere between being hit by a meteor and being hit by a truck when crossing the street. It can happen, but probably not. I have 2 and shoot only reloads and have never had a problem. Still wearing shooting glasses is always a good idea, even when shooting a BB gun.

January 24, 2013, 12:59 PM	#25
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Biff, I'd have to call it a very rare occurrence, given that I've never seen or heard of it over the years. I don't doubt that it CAN happen, but I wouldn't worry about it. When "high primers" and "spherical powder" are mentioned, that's nowhere near a common situation. Not with any factory ammo I've seen, anyway. I've only shot GI and Federal ammo in my Carbine.

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