Don't shoot the poor wittle coyotes...

Coinneach · May 16, 2000, 12:43 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/05/15...enn/index.html

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Birth control devices may spare coyotes from the bullets of protective farmers, say the authors of a recent study.

Each year, thousands of coyotes are killed to prevent them from preying on livestock, wildlife and even people. Environmentalists campaigning to end such predator control programs may have a less violent solution to managing the coyote population.
[/quote]

Yeah, put the prairie poodles on The Pill. *That* oughta larn 'em.

dZ · May 16, 2000, 01:26 PM

They are proposing sending people out to shake the eggs of Canadian Geese here in Wash DC area.

I think a lage trap attached to a big wood chipper is more economical

They want to Norplant the Whitetailed deer too

dZ

Coinneach · May 16, 2000, 01:40 PM

Ya know, every time I hear another crackheaded idea to manage wildlife without guns, I think of those fools from Chicago who spent some $250K relocating deer a few years ago. End result was, IIRC, only 17 deer out of a population numbering in the hundreds of thousands actually caught, and they all died at the new location from the stress of being captured, manhandled, and airlifted, then dropped off in unfamiliar territory.

Face it, you PETA freaks, sometimes the simple answer is the best.

Dr.Rob · May 16, 2000, 03:32 PM

ok now i really wanna go zap coyos

Herodotus · May 16, 2000, 07:31 PM

I may be a bit too suspicious, but I suspect something is up. 60 Minutes or some such national show had a prime time feature on coyotes and getting rid of preditor control last week. Now this from CNN. There's propbably more that I have not seen.
So these people are being given a lot of expensive publicity for free in the last few weeks.
Anybody know whats actually going on in Washington D.C. in this regards?

El Rojo · May 17, 2000, 01:08 AM

The best way to control the coyotes is to do what they have been doing forever. 1) let hunters shoot em. 2) if they are a major problem, do what they do now, go up in a chopper or a plane and let he government trapper shoot 60-100 in a day from just flying around. Or how about a combo of both?

That has been happening around here for years, the coyote populations stays as vigilant as ever.

muleshoe · May 17, 2000, 08:09 AM

Bring back a bounty on them. Hides are basically worthless so that cuts out probably 75% of coyote hunters.(not a legal stat, just a WAG) I still shoot every coyote I see but I'm protecting a calf crop.

------------------
bullet placement is gun control

Coinneach · May 17, 2000, 10:06 AM

I asked John-Henry (of Vic and John-Henry, the Coyote Gods) to comment.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Well:

I would tend to agree with the idea that a ranging, loose-foot coyote MIGHT be less prone to livestock predation, as opposed to a denned pair with pups to feed.

Of course, stock predation usually originates with a coyote that is crippled
in some fashion (trap, automobile, bullet) that makes it turn to lambs as opposed to jackrabbits, or calves as opposed to cottontails. From there stock predation is taught by that coyote (usually a bitch, according to Jim Lackey) to her pups, so you end up with an exponential progression as that behavior is spread through the population.

This is no new idea, by the way; it's just a re-packaging by the AR groups. The single most misleading thing in that article is this (unless something has changed, but I don't think so) the thing that they want the coyote to eat is not "birth control" in the classic sense of a substance that interferes with ovulation; it's an abortifacent, which causes them to either spontaneously abort the embryos or to re-absorb them in the womb.

They dumped tens of thousands of drop baits laced with this stuff from airplanes in past years, when ADC first began to seek out alternative population control methods, but several things became apparent; they
wouldn't eat it with any regularity, as the article says; the abortion aspect was unpalatable (what's the difference between killing a pup in a den burrow and killing it in the womb?); and it wasn't coyote-specific,
(although I don't know if it was canine-specific) so it acted on (at least) the foxes and domestic dogs as well as the coyotes.

ADC is under tremendous pressure to advocate alternative methods of predation control, and I sympathize with them; it's their jobs that are on the line if Congress decides to one year reduce their funding to zero, and
the pressure is on to do exactly that each session.

My best guess is that it ultimately won't make much difference; any given coyote can turn stock-killer (or dog killer, or cat killer, or chicken killer, or what have you) and at that point targeted (lethal) removal is the only solution that I'm aware of.

The modern paradigm is heavily weighted against lethal control methods in our contemporary feel-good society; unfortunately no one has successfully
communicated that new paradigm to the coyotes and other livestock predators.

John-Henry
[/quote]

Gee, and I thought hunters in general and varminters in particular were a bunch of illiterate, inbred rednecks...

May 16, 2000, 12:43 PM	#1
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	http://www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/05/15...enn/index.html <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Birth control devices may spare coyotes from the bullets of protective farmers, say the authors of a recent study. Each year, thousands of coyotes are killed to prevent them from preying on livestock, wildlife and even people. Environmentalists campaigning to end such predator control programs may have a less violent solution to managing the coyote population. [/quote] Yeah, put the prairie poodles on The Pill. That oughta larn 'em.

May 16, 2000, 01:26 PM	#2
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	They are proposing sending people out to shake the eggs of Canadian Geese here in Wash DC area. I think a lage trap attached to a big wood chipper is more economical They want to Norplant the Whitetailed deer too dZ

May 16, 2000, 01:40 PM	#3
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Ya know, every time I hear another crackheaded idea to manage wildlife without guns, I think of those fools from Chicago who spent some $250K relocating deer a few years ago. End result was, IIRC, only 17 deer out of a population numbering in the hundreds of thousands actually caught, and they all died at the new location from the stress of being captured, manhandled, and airlifted, then dropped off in unfamiliar territory. Face it, you PETA freaks, sometimes the simple answer is the best.

May 16, 2000, 03:32 PM	#4
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	ok now i really wanna go zap coyos

May 16, 2000, 07:31 PM	#5
Herodotus Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Posts: 743	I may be a bit too suspicious, but I suspect something is up. 60 Minutes or some such national show had a prime time feature on coyotes and getting rid of preditor control last week. Now this from CNN. There's propbably more that I have not seen. So these people are being given a lot of expensive publicity for free in the last few weeks. Anybody know whats actually going on in Washington D.C. in this regards?

May 17, 2000, 01:08 AM	#6
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,057	The best way to control the coyotes is to do what they have been doing forever. 1) let hunters shoot em. 2) if they are a major problem, do what they do now, go up in a chopper or a plane and let he government trapper shoot 60-100 in a day from just flying around. Or how about a combo of both? That has been happening around here for years, the coyote populations stays as vigilant as ever.

May 17, 2000, 08:09 AM	#7
muleshoe Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2000 Location: Mills County, IA Posts: 410	Bring back a bounty on them. Hides are basically worthless so that cuts out probably 75% of coyote hunters.(not a legal stat, just a WAG) I still shoot every coyote I see but I'm protecting a calf crop. ------------------ bullet placement is gun control

May 17, 2000, 10:06 AM	#8
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	I asked John-Henry (of Vic and John-Henry, the Coyote Gods) to comment. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Well: I would tend to agree with the idea that a ranging, loose-foot coyote MIGHT be less prone to livestock predation, as opposed to a denned pair with pups to feed. Of course, stock predation usually originates with a coyote that is crippled in some fashion (trap, automobile, bullet) that makes it turn to lambs as opposed to jackrabbits, or calves as opposed to cottontails. From there stock predation is taught by that coyote (usually a bitch, according to Jim Lackey) to her pups, so you end up with an exponential progression as that behavior is spread through the population. This is no new idea, by the way; it's just a re-packaging by the AR groups. The single most misleading thing in that article is this (unless something has changed, but I don't think so) the thing that they want the coyote to eat is not "birth control" in the classic sense of a substance that interferes with ovulation; it's an abortifacent, which causes them to either spontaneously abort the embryos or to re-absorb them in the womb. They dumped tens of thousands of drop baits laced with this stuff from airplanes in past years, when ADC first began to seek out alternative population control methods, but several things became apparent; they wouldn't eat it with any regularity, as the article says; the abortion aspect was unpalatable (what's the difference between killing a pup in a den burrow and killing it in the womb?); and it wasn't coyote-specific, (although I don't know if it was canine-specific) so it acted on (at least) the foxes and domestic dogs as well as the coyotes. ADC is under tremendous pressure to advocate alternative methods of predation control, and I sympathize with them; it's their jobs that are on the line if Congress decides to one year reduce their funding to zero, and the pressure is on to do exactly that each session. My best guess is that it ultimately won't make much difference; any given coyote can turn stock-killer (or dog killer, or cat killer, or chicken killer, or what have you) and at that point targeted (lethal) removal is the only solution that I'm aware of. The modern paradigm is heavily weighted against lethal control methods in our contemporary feel-good society; unfortunately no one has successfully communicated that new paradigm to the coyotes and other livestock predators. John-Henry [/quote] Gee, and I thought hunters in general and varminters in particular were a bunch of illiterate, inbred rednecks...