38 super to 9mm?

IMTHDUKE · January 23, 2017, 07:31 PM

I know it is possible to shoot 9mm out of a 38 super barrel, however, what can be done and what should be done is different. So, my question is this, if I get a 38 super DW what would I need to convert it to 9mm? 9mm barrel I am sure but what about the mags and will a 9mm barrel fit a 38 super slide or what other consideration should I be aware. Thanks

Bill DeShivs · January 23, 2017, 07:35 PM

You should only need the barrel.
Your mags MIGHT work, but dedicated 9mm mags would be better.

rock185 · January 23, 2017, 07:47 PM

What Bill said. You'll just need a drop-in or fitted 9MM barrel. I prefer to use dedicated 9MM magazines, but others report just using the 38 Super magazines. Sometimes a small adjustment to increase extractor tension will be needed, sometimes not. The factory 38 Super recoil spring and ejector usually work fine with 9MM, unless you intend to use very lightly loaded 9MM ammo. Yes, some people do shoot 9MM in unmodified 38 Super pistols. Headspace is grossly excessive, with the extractor holding the case close enough to the breech for the firing pin to impact the primer and fire the round. Many 1911 shooters actually think the case headspaces on the extractor anyway. Wrong, but as long as their gun doesn't blow up, they have the luxury of remaining blissfully unaware.

HiBC · January 23, 2017, 07:56 PM

By DW I assume its a 1911.
It can be done. Maybe a drop in barrel will fit up properly.Sometimes they do.
A good 1911 Smith can fitup a semi-fit barrel.Just only remove metal from the barrel.
Maybe the bushing will fit.Worst case,fit another bushing.
Ejector should be good.Bolt face,close enough.
Extractor likely an issue.
38 Super is semi-rimmed,9mm is rimless. Different rim dim.Extractor tension is critical to function.Best to have dedicated extractor.
Magazines? 9mm is pretty much a 38 Super with a spacer in the rear and a different follower.They are different I'd get 9mm mags.
You might need a 2 lb step down in recoil spring.See if the slide stop holds open last round.

Sights will likely be reasonably close,but some change may be expected.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 23, 2017, 08:57 PM

Quote:

I know it is possible to shoot 9mm out of a 38 super barrel, however, what can be done and what should be done is different. So, my question is this, if I get a 38 super DW what would I need to convert it to 9mm? 9mm barrel I am sure but what about the mags and will a 9mm barrel fit a 38 super slide or what other consideration should I be aware. Thanks

By "DW" are you referring to a Dan Wesson 1911? The .38 Super rim is slightly larger than the 9mm Luger rim, but for most 1911s the breechface is cut to the .38 Super dimension so 9mm will work with perhaps some minor tuning of the extractor. A 9mm barrel should fit in a .38 Super slide -- I've done two such conversions (not Dan Wessons) and had no problems.

You can use .38 Super magazines for 9mm but the shorter round tends to get knocked back and forth a lot and feeding may be unreliable. It would be best to buy a couple of actual 9mm magazines.

BigJimP · January 23, 2017, 11:50 PM

Why do you want to ???

If you want a DW in .38 super - buy one..../ and if you want one in 9mm -- then buy one.

Then you'll have a gun in each caliber - that will hopefully run reliably in each....

**Aguila Blanca** · January 24, 2017, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMTHDUKE

I know it is possible to shoot 9mm out of a 38 super barrel

I believe you have been misinformed. Per SAAMI standards, the 9mm case has a diameter of .3910" just forward of the extractor groove, and tapers to .3811" just back from the case mouth. The .38 Super chamber has a diameter of .3887" at the mouth, tapering (very slightly) to .3872" just before the forward end of the chamber. A 9mm Luger round should not fully chamber in an in-spec .38 Super barrel.

Bill DeShivs · January 24, 2017, 01:09 AM

I can't recall ever seeing a Super .38 that wouldn't accept 9mm in the chamber.

rock185 · January 24, 2017, 01:15 AM

Aguila, I've owned several Supers over the years. Some will chamber 9X19mm, and 9X23 Winchester, some won't. Typically, Colt 38 Supers won't chamber 9mm, but my STI and Kimbers will. Similar to the fact that some .357 and 38 Spcl. revolvers will chamber 38 Super, some won't. You are correct that the SAAMI specs. indicate this should not be possible. Just in the interest of science of course, I have shot a few rounds of 38 Super in a .357 revolver and 9X23 Winchester in guns chambered in 38 Super. I could, but choose not to, shoot 9mm in Supers in which it will chamber due to the grossly excessive headspace situation I mentioned.

BTW and along the same lines, years ago, I spoke to an, older to me at the time, gentleman at the range who was shooting 38 Super in his S&W model 52 .38 Spcl. Wadcutter pistol. I watched as he shot the Super in the 52 and saw no malfunctions or other issues. The Super shouldn't fit the model 52's chamber, but it did.

All just manufacturing tolerances I guess.

rodfac · January 24, 2017, 09:45 AM

Shooting 9mm in a .38 super barrel would rely on the extractor to hold the shorter 9mm rim/case head against the bolt face, in effect, producing an over-headspace problem. While it might work out, ignition may be spotty at best, and I'd suspect that accuracy would suffer.

The two Rugers are .45's, but I have series 70 Colt slides/barrels in 9mm and .38 Super that fit them just fine. Accuracy with the .38 Super is actually better with the .38 than with the original .45 barrel. For your conversion, I'd guess that you'd need only the barrel in 9mm. The .38 magazines should feed the 9mm rounds. Sights potentially will be a problem as the two different rounds may shoot to different POA/POI. In my guns, they're within an inch at 15 yds, and thats with 115 gr or 124 gr bullets.

In my two Ruger and two Colt 1911's, 9mm rounds feed just fine from the .38 super magazines, but not visa versa. I've never had a malfunction using 9mm in a .38 Super magazine.

HTH's Rod

Bill DeShivs · January 24, 2017, 02:59 PM

In a Colt .38 Super auto, 9mm does not have to be held by the extractor. While 9mm will drop down into the chamber, the Colt's firing pin has enough reach to set the 9mm off. This is a very dangerous situation, as the headspace is more than excessive!
I did this when I was young and stupid.

James K · January 24, 2017, 03:14 PM

Just FWIW, most of those "cartridge x will fit chamber y" stories are due to tolerance slop from oversize chambers cut with new reamers. The trouble is that while one (let's say) .38 Super barrel will fire 9mm P just fine, the next won't. So, while there is no doubt about one person's experiences, others may find that theirs will differ. It is always best to use the proper ammo except in an emergency.

As for firing .38 Super in an S&W Model 52, that is definitely a bad idea. The Model 52 is set up for very light .38 Special loads, and wadcutters at that. A common loading is something like 2.8 grains of Bullseye behind a 148 grain wadcutter bullet. I would be very concerned about firing factory (or hotter) .38 Super in those guns because with their light springs they would soon be battered to death.

Jim

January 23, 2017, 07:31 PM	#1
IMTHDUKE Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2004 Location: Sweet Home Alabama Posts: 1,475	38 super to 9mm? I know it is possible to shoot 9mm out of a 38 super barrel, however, what can be done and what should be done is different. So, my question is this, if I get a 38 super DW what would I need to convert it to 9mm? 9mm barrel I am sure but what about the mags and will a 9mm barrel fit a 38 super slide or what other consideration should I be aware. Thanks __________________ http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com Ed Brown Alpha Carry\| Sig P238, P938, P232, 1911 C3 \| Colt Defender, Mustang Pocketlite, 1911 \| Rohrbaugh R9 \| Browning, Buckmark 22LR(suppressed) \| Kahr PM9 Black Rose \| S&W\|M&P C.O.R.E RMR Trijicon \| Dan Wesson ECO

January 23, 2017, 07:35 PM	#2
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,982	You should only need the barrel. Your mags MIGHT work, but dedicated 9mm mags would be better. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

January 23, 2017, 07:47 PM	#3
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,091	What Bill said. You'll just need a drop-in or fitted 9MM barrel. I prefer to use dedicated 9MM magazines, but others report just using the 38 Super magazines. Sometimes a small adjustment to increase extractor tension will be needed, sometimes not. The factory 38 Super recoil spring and ejector usually work fine with 9MM, unless you intend to use very lightly loaded 9MM ammo. Yes, some people do shoot 9MM in unmodified 38 Super pistols. Headspace is grossly excessive, with the extractor holding the case close enough to the breech for the firing pin to impact the primer and fire the round. Many 1911 shooters actually think the case headspaces on the extractor anyway. Wrong, but as long as their gun doesn't blow up, they have the luxury of remaining blissfully unaware. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

January 24, 2017, 01:09 AM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,982	I can't recall ever seeing a Super .38 that wouldn't accept 9mm in the chamber. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

January 24, 2017, 01:15 AM	#9
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,091	Aguila, I've owned several Supers over the years. Some will chamber 9X19mm, and 9X23 Winchester, some won't. Typically, Colt 38 Supers won't chamber 9mm, but my STI and Kimbers will. Similar to the fact that some .357 and 38 Spcl. revolvers will chamber 38 Super, some won't. You are correct that the SAAMI specs. indicate this should not be possible. Just in the interest of science of course, I have shot a few rounds of 38 Super in a .357 revolver and 9X23 Winchester in guns chambered in 38 Super. I could, but choose not to, shoot 9mm in Supers in which it will chamber due to the grossly excessive headspace situation I mentioned. BTW and along the same lines, years ago, I spoke to an, older to me at the time, gentleman at the range who was shooting 38 Super in his S&W model 52 .38 Spcl. Wadcutter pistol. I watched as he shot the Super in the 52 and saw no malfunctions or other issues. The Super shouldn't fit the model 52's chamber, but it did. All just manufacturing tolerances I guess. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

January 23, 2017, 07:56 PM	#4
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	By DW I assume its a 1911. It can be done. Maybe a drop in barrel will fit up properly.Sometimes they do. A good 1911 Smith can fitup a semi-fit barrel.Just only remove metal from the barrel. Maybe the bushing will fit.Worst case,fit another bushing. Ejector should be good.Bolt face,close enough. Extractor likely an issue. 38 Super is semi-rimmed,9mm is rimless. Different rim dim.Extractor tension is critical to function.Best to have dedicated extractor. Magazines? 9mm is pretty much a 38 Super with a spacer in the rear and a different follower.They are different I'd get 9mm mags. You might need a 2 lb step down in recoil spring.See if the slide stop holds open last round. Sights will likely be reasonably close,but some change may be expected.

January 23, 2017, 11:50 PM	#6
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Why do you want to ??? If you want a DW in .38 super - buy one..../ and if you want one in 9mm -- then buy one. Then you'll have a gun in each caliber - that will hopefully run reliably in each....

January 24, 2017, 09:45 AM	#10
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Shooting 9mm in a .38 super barrel would rely on the extractor to hold the shorter 9mm rim/case head against the bolt face, in effect, producing an over-headspace problem. While it might work out, ignition may be spotty at best, and I'd suspect that accuracy would suffer. The two Rugers are .45's, but I have series 70 Colt slides/barrels in 9mm and .38 Super that fit them just fine. Accuracy with the .38 Super is actually better with the .38 than with the original .45 barrel. For your conversion, I'd guess that you'd need only the barrel in 9mm. The .38 magazines should feed the 9mm rounds. Sights potentially will be a problem as the two different rounds may shoot to different POA/POI. In my guns, they're within an inch at 15 yds, and thats with 115 gr or 124 gr bullets. In my two Ruger and two Colt 1911's, 9mm rounds feed just fine from the .38 super magazines, but not visa versa. I've never had a malfunction using 9mm in a .38 Super magazine. HTH's Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73. Last edited by rodfac; January 24, 2017 at 09:51 AM.

January 24, 2017, 02:59 PM	#11
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,982	In a Colt .38 Super auto, 9mm does not have to be held by the extractor. While 9mm will drop down into the chamber, the Colt's firing pin has enough reach to set the 9mm off. This is a very dangerous situation, as the headspace is more than excessive! I did this when I was young and stupid. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

January 24, 2017, 03:14 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Just FWIW, most of those "cartridge x will fit chamber y" stories are due to tolerance slop from oversize chambers cut with new reamers. The trouble is that while one (let's say) .38 Super barrel will fire 9mm P just fine, the next won't. So, while there is no doubt about one person's experiences, others may find that theirs will differ. It is always best to use the proper ammo except in an emergency. As for firing .38 Super in an S&W Model 52, that is definitely a bad idea. The Model 52 is set up for very light .38 Special loads, and wadcutters at that. A common loading is something like 2.8 grains of Bullseye behind a 148 grain wadcutter bullet. I would be very concerned about firing factory (or hotter) .38 Super in those guns because with their light springs they would soon be battered to death. Jim