At what point do you draw?

[BuckRub]

Seasoned people or LE don't get into fights when weapons are involved. It can go either way very quickly. Sometimes in your favor sometimes not. No I'm not afraid but when you work a place by yourself and your backup is 20-30 minutes away and that's another dept you learn what safety is all about. Letting someone invade your space would not be a good idea. It may sound tough or lawful to wait till something happens exactly like you think the law states or something else but so many times things happen 100% completely how you've planned. Whatever happens you want to be able to go home at the end of the day. I don't plan to be macho just Safe. So many of the laws that you guys quote one way, they can be turned the other way just the same. The best thing to do is know your rights / laws.

[daddyo]

I'm going into the chair arm repair business. I sense a tremendous market here.

I'll put my ad over in the for sale section.


...


Sgt Lumpy

I think its worst than that. Its an ignorance to the reality of how violent and fast a physical attack can occure.

[daddyo]

Seasoned people or LE don't get into fights when weapons are involved. It can go either way very quickly. Sometimes in your favor sometimes not. No I'm not afraid but when you work a place by yourself and your backup is 20-30 minutes away and that's another dept you learn what safety is all about. Letting someone invade your space would not be a good idea. It may sound tough or lawful to wait till something happens exactly like you think the law states or something else but so many times things happen 100% completely how you've planned. Whatever happens you want to be able to go home at the end of the day. I don't plan to be macho just Safe. So many of the laws that you guys quote one way, they can be turned the other way just the same. The best thing to do is know your rights / laws.

I think folks just assume that you are using the gun when other alternatives are available. These guys just assume that you have not exhausted all other available options or that other options are available.

[BuckRub]

To clarify, LE a gun is a last resource unless something happens and it has to be used. OC and a baton is used if it can fix the problem. Civilian - some that's all you have. But let someone invade you space on the interstate at 3 in the morning and sooner or later you'll get bit.

[allaroundhunter]

If you are so easily threatened by someone cussing at you or faking like they are going to hit you, then you really need to rethink this whole gun thing.

If someone is beating me, then I am justified in using deadly force to defend myself. If someone rears back as if that is their intent (even if they are 'faking' it), I am still justified in using deadly force.

If someone pulls their gun and acts like they are going to shoot you will you not feel threatened? After all, they are just faking it


Jeez.... some people

[BuckRub]

What you just said about being justified, there's so many on here that'll say you aren't justified yet. Depending which one of these law professors chime in I guess.

[buckshot00]

Some of you guys must live in some wide open spaces to have such large “personal spaces”.

If I am out in the desert I could take a step back put my hand on my belt and say “that’s far enough” cowboy. And wait for the....
In the cities or urban areas that is not acceptable people are constantly with in 4'-2'.

A guy walks up reaches for( booom..?) a pack of smokes “you got a light”
A guy walks up cocks his hand in the air( booom..?) “Yo got can you help a fool out”
A guy walks up at the crosswalk gets to close to your gun( booom..?)

If you are a cop you get to pad yourself from the public and you can get away with pulling out weapons and threatening people. Not a common citizen. You will go to prison for acting like that.

[BuckRub]

That's what I mean, anything you say you'll have someone criticize you and you shoulda done it like this or you'll go to prison or the law states this now talking about this huge personal space. Lol. I never said what my was or how huge or small. And someone walks up and asks a question and Boom ! Lol
If I tried to criticize so harshly or thought I was so smart and said things so stupid that would just prove to others how ignorant I really was. Some just need to keep quiet and read and not post - it'll make others not see ya as being so stupid !

[colbad]

Its interesting (and scary) to hear some of the comments shared here. As someone who does know the law, I would estimate that about half of the "experts" giving advice here will certainly be arrested and possibly go to prison if they follow their recommended courses of action.

All must remember that even if you truly believe your are about to suffer "death or grievous bodily injury" it is measured against a "reasonable man" standard and not your own paranoid delusions of fear.

Just because someone "in your mind" looks mean, nasty, scary or threatening does not justify pulling a weapon on them or threatening them to restore your comfort level. Just because someone is cussing at you, calling you names or even threatening to kill you (with their words) does not justify pulling you weapon.....walk away. Even if someone gets in your space and touches or even hits you does not mean your life is in danger and now you get to pull your weapon. It has been my experience that people who are anxious to pull a FA are usually more interested in seeing the "oh s**t look" on the other parties face. Pulling a FA as a threat in most cases only escalates the situation to where the opposing party either backs down, takes the gun away or turns an argument into a shooting.
My two cents.

[Tinner666]

Folks, there is no set of rules for any engagment. Things just go from calm to WHOA! in moments in the real world.
I've had to react in less than 2-3 seconds. Drawn and shot.
I've had time to draw hold the weapon at my side.
I've drawn with intent to shoot but held for that split second for the attacker to pause and I let them run. (Several times.)
Once after assistin LEO's in an arrest, nd standing by, a bystander stepped out of the crowd drawing a weapon! I drew and hollered something and did not pull the trigger because of 100+ people behind him and I was 10' from him and the crowd. As that moment stretched into an eternity and I was looking at my target spot and watching his eyes, he spun and ran away. The LEO's only caaught the end of it as fast as they spun around to see what was up. No, I was not arrested for drawing, or brandishing.
There are rules of engagment, and there are exceptions to every rule. Just be SA and ready to respond in kind.
No, the shakes do not come during the incident as time stands still, they come after and you may need to sit.

[TXAZ]

The Scholar Bartholomew Roberts stated:

...being polite is a good strategy. Sometimes the right mix of courtesy and confidence can be very powerful in deterring even those who aren't so nice...

+1!
Wits are often more powerful than a Ranger Company.

We live in Austin, a sanctuary city, where panhandling and sleeping almost anywhere is between encouraged and not enforced. Austin has on numerous occasions attempted to ban guns, and routinely prosecutes self defense shootings as homicide, attempted murder or assault, even when video evidence supporting the shooter is present. So drawing is big deal.

The smarter panhandlers have polished MO's, and I run into one of these guys at least once a week. For the most aggressive, who are good at coming out of nowhere, use physical and verbal intimidation to get $'s, I can't see drawing on them in this town. What I typically do is respond to them in Arabic.

I usually bless their hemorrhoids or wish hemorrhoids upon them, or wish them many wonderful nights with their camel, or the fleas of 100 camels....

I've never had anyone get very far, it's clearly a language virtually no one around here speaks.

The last exchange happened when he surprised me as he stepped from the other side of the gas pump.

Panhandler: About 1 foot away from my face in a loud voice "Hey can you help me buy some food?"

Me: <blessing of his 'rhoids'> in Arabic with a big smile.

Panhandler: "What? Don't you speak English?"

Me: <May 'rhoids' be with you> in Arabic

Him: "Hey what's wrong with you?"

Me: <May the fleas of 1000 camels visit you this month> in Arabic

Him: Are you American? He walks off.


But if it got physical, I still have a backup....

[SgtLumpy]

If I am out in the desert I could take a step back put my hand on my belt and say “that’s far enough” cowboy.

That's actually in the statuatory language in my state.

" ...An actor is guilty of sec 5-71(2.1) [brandishing] if he presents a deadly weapon as described in sec 5-14(a) [firearm] unless the actor first places his hand(s) in an area where, or otherwise gestures toward where, a reasonable and prudent man would expect to see a firearm and refers to the other party(s) as "cowboy"..."


Whoodathunkit.


Sgt Lumpy

[Frank Ettin]

This has gone on too long.