Tactical House Shopping (2)

newworldCurmudgeon · February 5, 2006, 07:49 AM

CPT Charlie, I will try to keep this topic on target and gun related. Basically what is the best floor plan for bedrooms in a house ("tactically speaking" from a defensive point of view)

In the next year or so I plan on purchasing a house, one thing I intend to take into account on my purchase is the bedroom setup in the house.

while not setting up a poll, I am wondering what is, in the learned opinion of TFL members, the best set up. I have looked at floor plans that include:

Ranch house, Master Bedroom (MBR) on one side, other bedrooms (OBR) on the other side of the house

ranch house all bedrooms on one side of the house

multi level house, MBR first floor, OBR second floor

Multi level house MBR, OBR on the same floor

Right now I am leaning towards the MBR/OBR on the same floor/ side of the house... Home defense will include and alarm system (not necessarily monitored) myself and wife, both armed, dog (friendly as heck until you threaten me or the kids...not as protective of my wife for some reason)

Also I will most likely be living in a more rural area with an unknown response time for LEO (I will be looking at fire/leo response time as a factor when we actually buy)

thanks in advance

STEVE M · February 5, 2006, 08:14 AM

My opinion is a 2 story house with all bedrooms upstairs. If the bedrooms

are seperated and you have kids, you don't want an intruder between you

and them. Same would go for a fire, with master and all others at opposite

ends of a house a simple kitchen fire would block you from them.

With bedrooms upstairs you force an intruder into a narrow channel that is

harder to negotiate, while you / your wife have the high ground with great

fields of fire.

If you get an alarm system I would get it monitered for a couple of

reasons. If there is a fire, for when you are not at home, to save a few

minutes time, it can call 911 while I'm getting my shotty.

Just my opinions ymmv

Eghad · February 5, 2006, 12:34 PM

I dont think I would worry to much about the design of the house. I would concentrate on making it more secure after I purchased it. The kind of house where a burglar walks up and says time to find easier prey.

If I wanted the most secure house I would probably purchase one of these.

rapier144 · February 5, 2006, 12:48 PM

What about a helicopter assault i didn't see any antiaircraft defense or was it hidden until the radar picks up incoming aircraft?

Capt. Charlie · February 5, 2006, 12:53 PM

If I recall correctly, The History Channel did a segment on Bill Jordan and his home. Apparently, his home was designed with defensive tactics in mind. For example, all of the entrances funneled people into a kill zone with no cover. The program was aired some time ago, and I don't remember most of the specifics. Anybody else here see it?

Mikeyboy · February 6, 2006, 12:02 AM

Capt C..I think I seen it on an American Shooter episode, Doesn't he have an Iron gate in the hallway leading to his bedroom.

I'm glad this subject was brought up (again). Personally one major thing I think is a tactical advantage in defending a home, at least from a burglar, is to have a two story home and having the all the bedrooms upstairs. As long as you can get up, get armed and get to the top of the stairs before the BG, your at a tactical advantage, defending the high ground, shooting down and away from your family. I think with a single level ranch style home you have less time to defend yourself. I also have friends that have bedrooms downstairs and upstairs, and I don't know why but they always put the kids downstairs and the parent's bedroom is upstairs. I have real young kids, I could not sleep at night if I did that.

Other tactical advantages would be Brick, stone and plaster walls vs. new construction. My home and all the others in my suburb are newer construction. Exterior walls are basically Strandboard, House wrap and vinyl siding, with sheetrock interior walls. A rifle round and even some pistol rounds, will go completely thru my house. I fear even if I miss shooting a BG, that round will exit my house and enter my neighbor's. If I lived in a brick house that would not be an issue.

Derius_T · February 6, 2006, 12:19 AM

For me, when our house gets built, I plan on making all the bedrooms upstairs, on the same side, with the MBR closest to the enclosed stairway.

If it wouldn't make me the 'weird neighbor', I'd go with 12 foot exterior "jail fence" and a moat.....

Eghad · February 6, 2006, 12:57 AM

What about a helicopter assault i didn't see any antiaircraft defense or was it hidden until the radar picks up incoming aircraft?

your not supposed to see em...they are camoflauged

warwagon · February 6, 2006, 02:01 AM

You cannot secure any house. If the bgs want in they will do so.
Good dogs, alarms, and a well trained household can do much to make this much harder,making them give up, and go somewhere else.

I wish you luck in finding your "little piece of heaven!"

best wishes,

Blair

newworldCurmudgeon · February 6, 2006, 09:06 AM

I used to think the separate bedroom plans were a good idea.....until I thought more about the "what ifs". Most of my what ifs dealt with BGs. Steve, I really hadn't thought about the fire issue especially in regards to a ranch home. Good point on the monitoring also, since I'll probably be a bit more rural.

Mikey, my kids are also at an age, where location is most important, and protecting them is number one. Of course when they are older we can just use them as a fire team to clear the house

also I am starting to see the advantage of a 2 story.

Capt Charlie, and Erik, thanks for you input. I couldn't find anything about the show, but the book may be "To Ride, Shoot Straight, And Speak The Truth" I read through the reviews on amazon.

Darious would you put sharks with lasers in your moat?

Egahd well if I had the money......

but a house like that would really cut in to the gun budget, and I'd have to hire my mother-in-law on as the maid

Warwagon I probably need more dogs, and of course the kids are at a young enough age we can make training a play time event (maybe I am crazy but I think families need to practice fire drills and such)

thanks again everyone.

Mikeyboy · February 6, 2006, 09:35 AM

One other good thing with alarm systems and montoring is panic buttons. I have an ADT system and they even have a "hostage code." If you walk into your house and go to turn off the alarm and suddenly you have a guy pointing a gun to your head saying, "turn off the alarm, or I'll blow your brains out" you can push the Hostage code, which will act the same as punching in your regular code (everything will stop beeping and it will seem everything is deactivated) but it will send a signal to the alarm monitors that unlike a regular alarm trip, that could be a false alarm, this is a customer that pushed multiple buttons to signal that he has a BG in his house, taking hostages. The guy who installed my alarm system said DO NOT have your kids play around and push this code. He knew of a family that had a teenage girl who was starving for attention push the code, and moment later tons of police and a SWAT team was on her doorstep.

rev · February 6, 2006, 11:36 AM

My mom has a circular house. Enter the house, hallway sraight ahead to livingroom, beadrooms to the right.From the front door left to the dining room. The dining room, kitchen and living room are all an open plan. MBR is off the livingroom opposite the other beadrooms. I can not clear the house with 1 person.

Derius_T · February 6, 2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Darious would you put sharks with lasers in your moat?

Sharks? Naww, I prefer the giant, mutant octopuss. Really makes even the most hardened BG's scream like little girls when those big tentacles grab 'em!

But seriously, I have thought about a very defensive home for quite some time. There are alot of options, including advanced monitoring systems, safe-rooms, ect. but all are extremely expensive.

For the poorer folk like myself, a good floor plan, a well informed family, and a couple of really cranky, nosey chows are gonna hafta do....

Archie · February 6, 2006, 03:42 PM

Instead of razor wire, which offends the gentler sensibilities, consider planting raspberry or blackberry vines in strategic locations.

A 'moat' doesn't have to be filled with water. Some sort of ornamental ditch which restricts access to the house can be effective in channeling traffic to where you can see them.

Exterior doors should be full weight and dead bolted. Door hinges should be fixed so the pins cannot be removed. Windows can be protected with ornamental bars with interior panic releases.

For your fire exit plan, set up a place of retreat that does not put you in the open. You may want to consider a fenced or otherwise secured back yard.

I'm working on a plan for a rural retirement home myself. All my kids are grown, but I may have to factor grandchildren in a few years.

Mikeyboy · February 6, 2006, 04:04 PM

I know from experience, I rather deal with getting thru razor wire than a blackberry bush. It seems to have a mind of its own, and wraps around you like a snake.

My House has rose bushes in front of every 1st floor window, and we have Hawthorn Hedges around the entire back yard. The kids can play out back in relative safety. Hawthorns are thorny and its hard to put your hand in it without getting pricked. People, Stray dogs, and Deer cannot get thru it but for some reason we have 50 or so birds living in them without a problem.

STEVE M · February 6, 2006, 06:51 PM

Yes the Cooper book with the chapter on residential architecture is: To

Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth.

Dave R · February 6, 2006, 11:29 PM

Bedrooms together. Use rose bushes or other prickly plants as "PC barbed wire" on likely window entrances. Get a dang dog. End of story.

Capt. Charlie · February 7, 2006, 12:29 AM

Early last summer, I found poison ivy growing in among my firethorn bushes. I left it there. Pain now, & misery later

.

chrisandclauida2 · February 7, 2006, 01:45 AM

stay away from split floor plans. all bed room on same floor and same side. i saw a house that had all bed rooms connected to each other with access doors in the closets. this allowed all family members freedom of movement without exposing them selves. if i were to build a house i would have this set up. i would have all bedroom doors to be of the exterior solid doors fire doors or hotel doors. with reinforced jams. this would allow security for family. i would also have the interconnected bedroom access to a panic room. you don't need anything like the movies just grouted solid block walls with provisions for a short stay. exit to out side would be preferred. this would be a door that only opened out words And only from the inside. you can take this concept to extremes with air and water service and filtration separate. it all depends on how prepared you want to be. simple hotel doors on all bed rooms and inter connected seems basic this would suffice in almost all situation's separate phone service of some sort is a must be it cell or second line access from a separate point all together.. making sure phone interfaces are secure is a priority also for obvious reasons.i would say a dry sprinkler system is a must.i say dry as the lines arent constantly charged with water. wet means they are and if a pipe breaks it is a mess.

Blackwater OPS · February 7, 2006, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Some sort of ornamental ditch which restricts access to the house can be effective in channeling traffic to where you can see them.

Seems like that would give cover to the badguys. But maybe thats not the situation you guys are worried about.

Sir William · February 7, 2006, 02:51 AM

If the frame/structure will stand it, add interior brick walls. NOT Z-bricks, actual bricks can often be installed inside as wall treatments and texture. You can wax them or paiint or stucco texture them. I have 8" blocks in my living room and I will be putting Coronado stone over that for the final texture. Glass block windows are good for privacy, security and insulation. I prefer old-fashioned French doors with heavy duty brass hardware and 8-way locking. Bedrooms? One on each floor and a summer bedroom in the backyard. I am looking into residential sprinklers, fire extinguishers in the wall wells and GFCIs in the breaker box for expanded fire safety. I have a 4 legged alarm. Most alarm systems are rip-offs. The use of heavy duty materials in new vinyls, fire resistent/treated woods and metal roofing/siding as well as concrete siding/trim will beef up security, reduce maintenance, be durable and give a good appearance. Be careful though, if it looks good, your taxes WILL go up. A friend does something unusual at night. He has motion detector strobe lighting. If you break the perimeter, powerful strobe lights go off. He says it is cheap to operate and he has heard curses as BGs went somewhere else. I still like floodlights.

Mikeyboy · February 7, 2006, 11:50 AM

Sir William..Strobe lights would drive me and the neighbors nuts we have too many deer wandering around at night, but Motion sensor floods are the way to go. At night you should have no excessively dark spots close to your home.

I agree with the thick doors. New construction stinks..every interior door in my house is either hollow or foam filled. I'm slowly encouraging my wife we need solid wood doors in the house.

C&C2 I like the interconnecting bedroom concept too. My brother has two boys and they have a door betwen their rooms. Just seems easier then running in and out of each bedroom.

NewWorld another issue is the Basement. If you can you should get a house with a basement, because in a SHTF event, it makes a good shelter. The only thing is you need some sort door or escape to the outside. You don't want it to be a deathtrap with no escape.

February 5, 2006, 07:49 AM	#1
newworldCurmudgeon Member Join Date: September 19, 2005 Location: CENLA Posts: 89	Tactical House Shopping (2) CPT Charlie, I will try to keep this topic on target and gun related. Basically what is the best floor plan for bedrooms in a house ("tactically speaking" from a defensive point of view) In the next year or so I plan on purchasing a house, one thing I intend to take into account on my purchase is the bedroom setup in the house. while not setting up a poll, I am wondering what is, in the learned opinion of TFL members, the best set up. I have looked at floor plans that include: Ranch house, Master Bedroom (MBR) on one side, other bedrooms (OBR) on the other side of the house ranch house all bedrooms on one side of the house multi level house, MBR first floor, OBR second floor Multi level house MBR, OBR on the same floor Right now I am leaning towards the MBR/OBR on the same floor/ side of the house... Home defense will include and alarm system (not necessarily monitored) myself and wife, both armed, dog (friendly as heck until you threaten me or the kids...not as protective of my wife for some reason) Also I will most likely be living in a more rural area with an unknown response time for LEO (I will be looking at fire/leo response time as a factor when we actually buy) thanks in advance

February 5, 2006, 08:14 AM	#2
STEVE M Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: TN. USA Posts: 607	My opinion is a 2 story house with all bedrooms upstairs. If the bedrooms are seperated and you have kids, you don't want an intruder between you and them. Same would go for a fire, with master and all others at opposite ends of a house a simple kitchen fire would block you from them. With bedrooms upstairs you force an intruder into a narrow channel that is harder to negotiate, while you / your wife have the high ground with great fields of fire. If you get an alarm system I would get it monitered for a couple of reasons. If there is a fire, for when you are not at home, to save a few minutes time, it can call 911 while I'm getting my shotty. Just my opinions ymmv __________________ MOLON LABE! I've joined the 300.

February 5, 2006, 12:48 PM	#4
rapier144 Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Location: tennessee Posts: 686	Eghad What about a helicopter assault i didn't see any antiaircraft defense or was it hidden until the radar picks up incoming aircraft? __________________ Scan and Breathe Scan and Breathe Stupidity should hurt

February 5, 2006, 12:53 PM	#5
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	If I recall correctly, The History Channel did a segment on Bill Jordan and his home. Apparently, his home was designed with defensive tactics in mind. For example, all of the entrances funneled people into a kill zone with no cover. The program was aired some time ago, and I don't remember most of the specifics. Anybody else here see it? __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

February 6, 2006, 12:57 AM	#8
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	What about a helicopter assault i didn't see any antiaircraft defense or was it hidden until the radar picks up incoming aircraft? your not supposed to see em...they are camoflauged __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

February 6, 2006, 12:02 AM	#6
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	Capt C..I think I seen it on an American Shooter episode, Doesn't he have an Iron gate in the hallway leading to his bedroom. I'm glad this subject was brought up (again). Personally one major thing I think is a tactical advantage in defending a home, at least from a burglar, is to have a two story home and having the all the bedrooms upstairs. As long as you can get up, get armed and get to the top of the stairs before the BG, your at a tactical advantage, defending the high ground, shooting down and away from your family. I think with a single level ranch style home you have less time to defend yourself. I also have friends that have bedrooms downstairs and upstairs, and I don't know why but they always put the kids downstairs and the parent's bedroom is upstairs. I have real young kids, I could not sleep at night if I did that. Other tactical advantages would be Brick, stone and plaster walls vs. new construction. My home and all the others in my suburb are newer construction. Exterior walls are basically Strandboard, House wrap and vinyl siding, with sheetrock interior walls. A rifle round and even some pistol rounds, will go completely thru my house. I fear even if I miss shooting a BG, that round will exit my house and enter my neighbor's. If I lived in a brick house that would not be an issue.

February 6, 2006, 12:19 AM	#7
Derius_T Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: South West OHIO (boondocks) Posts: 1,337	For me, when our house gets built, I plan on making all the bedrooms upstairs, on the same side, with the MBR closest to the enclosed stairway. If it wouldn't make me the 'weird neighbor', I'd go with 12 foot exterior "jail fence" and a moat.....

February 6, 2006, 02:01 AM	#9
warwagon Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2005 Location: Dayton Oh Posts: 341	You cannot secure any house. If the bgs want in they will do so. Good dogs, alarms, and a well trained household can do much to make this much harder,making them give up, and go somewhere else. I wish you luck in finding your "little piece of heaven!" best wishes, Blair __________________ SWAT certified Ret LEO certified weaponscraft instructor OPOTA Ret NRA Endowment member

February 6, 2006, 09:06 AM	#10
newworldCurmudgeon Member Join Date: September 19, 2005 Location: CENLA Posts: 89	Thanks for the input I used to think the separate bedroom plans were a good idea.....until I thought more about the "what ifs". Most of my what ifs dealt with BGs. Steve, I really hadn't thought about the fire issue especially in regards to a ranch home. Good point on the monitoring also, since I'll probably be a bit more rural. Mikey, my kids are also at an age, where location is most important, and protecting them is number one. Of course when they are older we can just use them as a fire team to clear the house also I am starting to see the advantage of a 2 story. Capt Charlie, and Erik, thanks for you input. I couldn't find anything about the show, but the book may be "To Ride, Shoot Straight, And Speak The Truth" I read through the reviews on amazon. Darious would you put sharks with lasers in your moat? Egahd well if I had the money...... but a house like that would really cut in to the gun budget, and I'd have to hire my mother-in-law on as the maid Warwagon I probably need more dogs, and of course the kids are at a young enough age we can make training a play time event (maybe I am crazy but I think families need to practice fire drills and such) thanks again everyone.

February 6, 2006, 09:35 AM	#11
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	One other good thing with alarm systems and montoring is panic buttons. I have an ADT system and they even have a "hostage code." If you walk into your house and go to turn off the alarm and suddenly you have a guy pointing a gun to your head saying, "turn off the alarm, or I'll blow your brains out" you can push the Hostage code, which will act the same as punching in your regular code (everything will stop beeping and it will seem everything is deactivated) but it will send a signal to the alarm monitors that unlike a regular alarm trip, that could be a false alarm, this is a customer that pushed multiple buttons to signal that he has a BG in his house, taking hostages. The guy who installed my alarm system said DO NOT have your kids play around and push this code. He knew of a family that had a teenage girl who was starving for attention push the code, and moment later tons of police and a SWAT team was on her doorstep.

February 6, 2006, 11:36 AM	#12
rev Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2006 Posts: 2	My mom has a circular house. Enter the house, hallway sraight ahead to livingroom, beadrooms to the right.From the front door left to the dining room. The dining room, kitchen and living room are all an open plan. MBR is off the livingroom opposite the other beadrooms. I can not clear the house with 1 person.

February 6, 2006, 03:42 PM	#14
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Defensive homes Instead of razor wire, which offends the gentler sensibilities, consider planting raspberry or blackberry vines in strategic locations. A 'moat' doesn't have to be filled with water. Some sort of ornamental ditch which restricts access to the house can be effective in channeling traffic to where you can see them. Exterior doors should be full weight and dead bolted. Door hinges should be fixed so the pins cannot be removed. Windows can be protected with ornamental bars with interior panic releases. For your fire exit plan, set up a place of retreat that does not put you in the open. You may want to consider a fenced or otherwise secured back yard. I'm working on a plan for a rural retirement home myself. All my kids are grown, but I may have to factor grandchildren in a few years. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

February 6, 2006, 04:04 PM	#15
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	I know from experience, I rather deal with getting thru razor wire than a blackberry bush. It seems to have a mind of its own, and wraps around you like a snake. My House has rose bushes in front of every 1st floor window, and we have Hawthorn Hedges around the entire back yard. The kids can play out back in relative safety. Hawthorns are thorny and its hard to put your hand in it without getting pricked. People, Stray dogs, and Deer cannot get thru it but for some reason we have 50 or so birds living in them without a problem.

February 6, 2006, 06:51 PM	#16
STEVE M Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: TN. USA Posts: 607	Yes the Cooper book with the chapter on residential architecture is: To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth. __________________ MOLON LABE! I've joined the 300.

February 6, 2006, 11:29 PM	#17
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Bedrooms together. Use rose bushes or other prickly plants as "PC barbed wire" on likely window entrances. Get a dang dog. End of story. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

February 7, 2006, 12:29 AM	#18
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	Early last summer, I found poison ivy growing in among my firethorn bushes. I left it there. Pain now, & misery later . __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

February 7, 2006, 01:45 AM	#19
chrisandclauida2 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2005 Posts: 312	stay away from split floor plans. all bed room on same floor and same side. i saw a house that had all bed rooms connected to each other with access doors in the closets. this allowed all family members freedom of movement without exposing them selves. if i were to build a house i would have this set up. i would have all bedroom doors to be of the exterior solid doors fire doors or hotel doors. with reinforced jams. this would allow security for family. i would also have the interconnected bedroom access to a panic room. you don't need anything like the movies just grouted solid block walls with provisions for a short stay. exit to out side would be preferred. this would be a door that only opened out words And only from the inside. you can take this concept to extremes with air and water service and filtration separate. it all depends on how prepared you want to be. simple hotel doors on all bed rooms and inter connected seems basic this would suffice in almost all situation's separate phone service of some sort is a must be it cell or second line access from a separate point all together.. making sure phone interfaces are secure is a priority also for obvious reasons.i would say a dry sprinkler system is a must.i say dry as the lines arent constantly charged with water. wet means they are and if a pipe breaks it is a mess.

February 7, 2006, 02:51 AM	#21
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	If the frame/structure will stand it, add interior brick walls. NOT Z-bricks, actual bricks can often be installed inside as wall treatments and texture. You can wax them or paiint or stucco texture them. I have 8" blocks in my living room and I will be putting Coronado stone over that for the final texture. Glass block windows are good for privacy, security and insulation. I prefer old-fashioned French doors with heavy duty brass hardware and 8-way locking. Bedrooms? One on each floor and a summer bedroom in the backyard. I am looking into residential sprinklers, fire extinguishers in the wall wells and GFCIs in the breaker box for expanded fire safety. I have a 4 legged alarm. Most alarm systems are rip-offs. The use of heavy duty materials in new vinyls, fire resistent/treated woods and metal roofing/siding as well as concrete siding/trim will beef up security, reduce maintenance, be durable and give a good appearance. Be careful though, if it looks good, your taxes WILL go up. A friend does something unusual at night. He has motion detector strobe lighting. If you break the perimeter, powerful strobe lights go off. He says it is cheap to operate and he has heard curses as BGs went somewhere else. I still like floodlights.

February 7, 2006, 11:50 AM	#22
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	Sir William..Strobe lights would drive me and the neighbors nuts we have too many deer wandering around at night, but Motion sensor floods are the way to go. At night you should have no excessively dark spots close to your home. I agree with the thick doors. New construction stinks..every interior door in my house is either hollow or foam filled. I'm slowly encouraging my wife we need solid wood doors in the house. C&C2 I like the interconnecting bedroom concept too. My brother has two boys and they have a door betwen their rooms. Just seems easier then running in and out of each bedroom. NewWorld another issue is the Basement. If you can you should get a house with a basement, because in a SHTF event, it makes a good shelter. The only thing is you need some sort door or escape to the outside. You don't want it to be a deathtrap with no escape.