Commercial Cast 250 Grain 44 Keith Bullet

newrugersafan · April 15, 2010, 12:02 PM

I'm just about out of Laser Cast 240 grain semi wadcutter bullets. I have been having good success with these in my 44 mag with IMR 4227 but I'm getting some leading in my 44 special with the "Skeeter" load. These are a bevel base sized at .431 which works well in my Rugers but they may be to hard for the lower pressure of the 44 special.

Do you folks have a commercial cast bullet that has worked well for you? I can get HSM locally but have no experiance with them, they are also a bevel base.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mike

shooter1911 · April 15, 2010, 12:14 PM

I personally have never heard of a HC bullet being so hard that it would cause leading. If you are calling Skeeter's 44 Special load 7.5gr of Unique with a 240-250gr lead bullet, that is what I have used for many years with no issue in my 5 1/2 in Ruger SBH or my 4 in S&W 629 Mountain Gun. I have always bought any hard cast 240 gr bullet, but I have never used premium HC bullets loaded in 44 Special as I have never found the need. For years I used Rucker 240gr HC until they got so hard to find.

Is the load I mentioned above what you are loading in the 44 Special?

Travis Two · April 15, 2010, 04:42 PM

Check out www.pennbullets.com They offer a wide selection of .44 bullets and different alloys for different loads and they offer custom sizing. My no.1 go to choice in cast bullets.

GeauxTide · April 15, 2010, 08:34 PM

Missouri bullets.

newrugersafan · April 15, 2010, 11:18 PM

shooter1911

Yes that is the load. I have read that some lower pressure rounds will not cause the lead to expand and seal the gasses at the barrel causeing leading in the forcing cone and barrel. I know my magnum load is very clean but I'm using 23 grains of IMR 4227 a little under max but still a potent load.

Mike

BruceM · April 16, 2010, 05:17 PM

Leading is NOT caused by bullets being too hard for a certain velocity although that notion is currently in vogue. The problem is either that the bullet is incorrectly sized for your gun or incorrectly lubed. If the bullet is sized correctly to seal the bore in the first place, there is no need for the base to expand (obturate) in order to do so. In fact, even the fact that you expect the bullet to expand says that it is too small in the first place. In revolvers, the cylinder's chamber throat dia. must be a fairly close match to the bore diameter or leading will occur and no amount of fiddling with the alloy will make up for bore/cylinder mismatch. Bullets cast of pure virgin linotype or heat treated wheelweights can be fired at velocities between 700 fps and 1400 fps without leading and without gaschecks IF they are properly sized and lubricated.

If you're having leading issues, have the bore slugged and the diameter checked. Have the cylinder throats checked with pin gauges. If the cylinder throats are too small, have a competent gunsmith correct that problem, resign yourself to shooting jacketed bullets in that gun or sell it and buy another suitable for shooting cast bullets. Generally, oversized throats are most common in .45 LC Smith & Wesson revolvers but no chambering or brand is totally immune. Leave the bullet "obturating" to swagged lead hollow base .38 Special wadcutters and not hard cast bullets.

Bruce

RidgwayCO · April 16, 2010, 09:58 PM

Leadheads, Mt. Baldy Bullets, and Tennessee Valley Bullets all sell a proper .44 caliber "Keith" bullet:

https://secure25.securewebsession.co....com/order.htm
http://www.mtbaldybullets.com/asp/products.asp
http://www.tennesseevalleybullets.co...s/bullets.html

Lots of casters say they sell "Keith-style" bullets, but they're mostly just generic LSWCs.

jmortimer · April 17, 2010, 12:03 AM

Beartooth Bullets sells a really hard cast - heat treated to 21 to 22 BHN 260 grain Keith bullet. Plus it is gas checked so that alone will reduce/eliminate leading. Not a plinking bullet - but useful if you want the best. As stated above, if you know your cylinder throat dimension you can order a bullet that "fits" your gun. Check out the FAQs and scroll down to "How do I measure cylinder throat dimensions for my revolver?"
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/faq/index.htm

Brandy · April 17, 2010, 12:36 AM

better bullets than the Keith design. More metplat is always better when you want to punch large straight holes in animals.

newrugersafan · April 17, 2010, 01:46 AM

Thanks for the responses.

I do not have pin guages but I have checked the throats with some .430 XTP bullets and they slide right through with little effort. The .431 Laser Cast bullets are a tight fit and have to be tapped through. I think the bullets are correctly sized for the throats. I have not checked the barrel. I did shoot some .429 bullets through this gun it is possible that I did not get the bore completely clean after useing those. I will clean it and try the .431 bullets again.

Mike

BruceM · April 17, 2010, 04:56 PM

.431" cylinder throats with a .429" bore diameter is not a good combo for shooting cast bullets. The numbers ideally should match but within .001" is OK too. When you start to get two or three thousandths out (or more), the problems start.

"Beartooth Bullets sells a really hard cast - heat treated to 21 to 22 BHN 260 grain Keith bullet. Plus it is gas checked"

That's an oxymoron. Keith style bullets are plain base bullets by definition.

Bruce

April 15, 2010, 12:02 PM	#1
newrugersafan Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 47	Commercial Cast 250 Grain 44 Keith Bullet I'm just about out of Laser Cast 240 grain semi wadcutter bullets. I have been having good success with these in my 44 mag with IMR 4227 but I'm getting some leading in my 44 special with the "Skeeter" load. These are a bevel base sized at .431 which works well in my Rugers but they may be to hard for the lower pressure of the 44 special. Do you folks have a commercial cast bullet that has worked well for you? I can get HSM locally but have no experiance with them, they are also a bevel base. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks Mike Last edited by newrugersafan; April 15, 2010 at 12:03 PM. Reason: spelling

April 16, 2010, 09:58 PM	#7
RidgwayCO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Location: Western Colorado Posts: 244	Leadheads, Mt. Baldy Bullets, and Tennessee Valley Bullets all sell a proper .44 caliber "Keith" bullet: https://secure25.securewebsession.co....com/order.htm http://www.mtbaldybullets.com/asp/products.asp http://www.tennesseevalleybullets.co...s/bullets.html Lots of casters say they sell "Keith-style" bullets, but they're mostly just generic LSWCs. __________________ "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Nope, not a single word about hunting...

April 17, 2010, 12:36 AM	#9
Brandy Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2010 Posts: 151	There are better bullets than the Keith design. More metplat is always better when you want to punch large straight holes in animals.

April 15, 2010, 12:14 PM	#2
shooter1911 Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: DFW Area Posts: 265	I personally have never heard of a HC bullet being so hard that it would cause leading. If you are calling Skeeter's 44 Special load 7.5gr of Unique with a 240-250gr lead bullet, that is what I have used for many years with no issue in my 5 1/2 in Ruger SBH or my 4 in S&W 629 Mountain Gun. I have always bought any hard cast 240 gr bullet, but I have never used premium HC bullets loaded in 44 Special as I have never found the need. For years I used Rucker 240gr HC until they got so hard to find. Is the load I mentioned above what you are loading in the 44 Special?

April 15, 2010, 04:42 PM	#3
Travis Two Member Join Date: September 27, 2006 Posts: 63	Check out www.pennbullets.com They offer a wide selection of .44 bullets and different alloys for different loads and they offer custom sizing. My no.1 go to choice in cast bullets.

April 15, 2010, 08:34 PM	#4
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	Missouri bullets.

April 15, 2010, 11:18 PM	#5
newrugersafan Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 47	shooter1911 Yes that is the load. I have read that some lower pressure rounds will not cause the lead to expand and seal the gasses at the barrel causeing leading in the forcing cone and barrel. I know my magnum load is very clean but I'm using 23 grains of IMR 4227 a little under max but still a potent load. Mike

April 16, 2010, 05:17 PM	#6
BruceM Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 285	Leading is NOT caused by bullets being too hard for a certain velocity although that notion is currently in vogue. The problem is either that the bullet is incorrectly sized for your gun or incorrectly lubed. If the bullet is sized correctly to seal the bore in the first place, there is no need for the base to expand (obturate) in order to do so. In fact, even the fact that you expect the bullet to expand says that it is too small in the first place. In revolvers, the cylinder's chamber throat dia. must be a fairly close match to the bore diameter or leading will occur and no amount of fiddling with the alloy will make up for bore/cylinder mismatch. Bullets cast of pure virgin linotype or heat treated wheelweights can be fired at velocities between 700 fps and 1400 fps without leading and without gaschecks IF they are properly sized and lubricated. If you're having leading issues, have the bore slugged and the diameter checked. Have the cylinder throats checked with pin gauges. If the cylinder throats are too small, have a competent gunsmith correct that problem, resign yourself to shooting jacketed bullets in that gun or sell it and buy another suitable for shooting cast bullets. Generally, oversized throats are most common in .45 LC Smith & Wesson revolvers but no chambering or brand is totally immune. Leave the bullet "obturating" to swagged lead hollow base .38 Special wadcutters and not hard cast bullets. Bruce

April 17, 2010, 12:03 AM	#8
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Beartooth Bullets sells a really hard cast - heat treated to 21 to 22 BHN 260 grain Keith bullet. Plus it is gas checked so that alone will reduce/eliminate leading. Not a plinking bullet - but useful if you want the best. As stated above, if you know your cylinder throat dimension you can order a bullet that "fits" your gun. Check out the FAQs and scroll down to "How do I measure cylinder throat dimensions for my revolver?" http://www.beartoothbullets.com/faq/index.htm

April 17, 2010, 01:46 AM	#10
newrugersafan Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 47	Thanks for the responses. I do not have pin guages but I have checked the throats with some .430 XTP bullets and they slide right through with little effort. The .431 Laser Cast bullets are a tight fit and have to be tapped through. I think the bullets are correctly sized for the throats. I have not checked the barrel. I did shoot some .429 bullets through this gun it is possible that I did not get the bore completely clean after useing those. I will clean it and try the .431 bullets again. Mike

April 17, 2010, 04:56 PM	#11
BruceM Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 285	.431" cylinder throats with a .429" bore diameter is not a good combo for shooting cast bullets. The numbers ideally should match but within .001" is OK too. When you start to get two or three thousandths out (or more), the problems start. "Beartooth Bullets sells a really hard cast - heat treated to 21 to 22 BHN 260 grain Keith bullet. Plus it is gas checked" That's an oxymoron. Keith style bullets are plain base bullets by definition. Bruce