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Old May 11, 2018, 06:38 PM   #26
FrankenMauser
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My assortment has been narrowed down to Bore-Tech Eliminator (carbon and copper), Slip-2000 Carbon Killer (hardened/baked carbon), and Hoppe's #9 for general purpose use.
I do keep some Montana Extreme copper remover on hand, but it has been eight years since I used any.


No one asked, but...
Once done, I use FP-10 for standard oiling, Slip-2000 EWL for things where I want a thicker oil, and a moly axle grease for greased parts. (...Rem-Oil or Slip-2000 wipes, if in the field.)
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Old May 13, 2018, 09:10 PM   #27
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Don't forget Sweet's 7.62 for bore cleaning. Smelly but works.
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Old May 14, 2018, 10:43 AM   #28
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Yep, my wife needs another chemical smell to try out.

I think I will stick with what has proven to work and work fast. But that is just me, better to ignore proven performance over an opinion any day of the week.

Back in the day when I was traveling the US in my Alaska Plated truck (we could not pump our own gas back then) the attendant would come out, ahh, Polar Bears, live on a glacier in an Igloo, no sun, cold all the time.

ME: No, Polar bears are about 700 miles North, glaciers are in the mountains, we have farm land, great potatoes, cabbage as big as the truck, we live in houses on solid ground, nice in the summer, good 6-7 month of the year very nice.

Attendant: You have no idea what you are talking about, how dare you tell me what its like up there, I know perfectly well what goes on up there, I have it by very good 4th hand sources.

ME: (after almost getting into 3 fights over what I didn't really know):
Yea, you are right, some nights we invite the Polar bears in so we all can get warm and go our own way in the morning. ahh you think you can put that gas in the truck for me, I have a hot date with a lady Polar bear up North I don't want to miss.
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Old May 14, 2018, 01:52 PM   #29
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Hoppe's No. 9, Ballistol or WD-40, followed by a little oil and grease. Guns have always worked fine afterwards.

Last edited by AL45; May 15, 2018 at 08:31 PM.
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Old May 15, 2018, 08:13 AM   #30
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The best I've used was AccuBore, a custom rifle builder/gunsmith told me about it 30 plus years ago. Brownell's used to carry it but discontinued it a few years back, as with anything Brownell's carries I should of bought a lifetime supply. It's made in Canada maybe that has something to do with Brownell's not carrying it anymore. I have four bottles left and wished I had a hundred!
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Old May 15, 2018, 02:11 PM   #31
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I have always used Hoppeā€™s #9 cleaning solvent to clean my hunting rifles. I am starting to do a lot more shooting now due to my addiction to reloading. What are the best solvents some of you all have found to get rid of powder and best ones to get rid of copper? Thanks.
It had nothing to do with not being happy with what was available; the problem was what was available for cleaning the bore, I made a bore cleaning system that had not disappointed.

Hoppies #9 has always reminded me of John Wayne toilet paper, but if that is all you got that is it.

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Old May 15, 2018, 03:48 PM   #32
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I have used Hoppe's #9 all of my life. I still use it. In the 60's and 70's and even 80's, a lot of new cleaners/solvents were coming out. Once in a while, I would buy them to see if they did the job. None of them did the job as well as Hoppes.
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Old May 15, 2018, 04:37 PM   #33
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Chloroform for the old oil, nitrobenzene for the carbon deposites, mercury for copper.
And yes, I'm a chemist.
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Old May 15, 2018, 08:19 PM   #34
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Hoppe's used to have nitrobenzene in it when I was a kid. It originally had 9 ingredients, which is where the 9 in the name came from. Regulators have seen to it that only 5 remain now, and the efficacy has, alas, been reduced.

The modern chemistries really are better. If you want to just remove copper, KG-12 is about the fastest I've seen. Way faster than Sweet's or any of the other ammonia-based bore cleaners. The only problem is it doesn't turn green or blue, so you have to depend on inspection to be sure it's done working. Like Bore Tech Cu++, it is a chelating copper remover. Cu++ was not as fast in my test (dissolving 2 mils of copper plating off a steel jacketed ball bullet), but it does turn very blue and is also way faster than ammonia. Bore Tech Eliminator has some of the same stuff as Cu++ in it along with some of the same stuff that is in their C4 carbon remover. It just isn't as strong as either one is alone.

All those products are water-based and low odor. They have corrosion inhibitors that are very effective. I've let them dry out in a barrel in humid conditions with no sign of rust.

Slip2000 Carbon Killer is the fastest acting on old carbon cake. I have made the mistake of letting it sit on some Parkerizing for a number of hours, and it thinned it out, so I don't put it there.

This article on two of the above products is an interesting read, though it's a dozen years old, now.

Gunzilla is interesting stuff. I left some in a tired old '03's bore for six weeks one time and it dissolved not only all the old carbon that was glazing some hidden ancient pitting, but also the rust in those pits came completely out leaving shiny bare steel. The carbon and rust was a sludge at the bottom side of the barrel that wiped out with one dry patch. It takes longer than Slip2000 Carbon Killer, but can do an impressive job. The original formula does not attack copper very aggressively, but I haven't tried their copper removing formula.

For lead, Sharpshoot'R, makers of Wipe-Out foaming cleaner, make a product called No Lead. You put it in the gun for about an hour and the lead converts to a sort crumbly gray-black material that just patches out. No brushing required.
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Old May 16, 2018, 01:45 PM   #35
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Yep, both product listed have proven to work.

I use the Eliminator as I don't have much copper and there is alwyas some carbon in the layers (old guns)

While my approach is a bit different, what helps a bit more is a warm barrel so I do it at the range when I am done shooting that gun.

Regardless the old stuff was toxic and brute force approach.

You don't have to worry about poisoning yourself or making family sick or gloves with the new stuff.

And with a bore scope its proven to work not an look through the barrel opinion.

Frankly it would be like someone made a reasonable cost shaft drive bicycle with full suspension. It would not be any better.
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Old May 16, 2018, 03:31 PM   #36
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You're doing what I do. Carbon deposits harden as they sit, so the sooner you get a solvent on them, the easier they come out. I bought a travel-size pump sprayer at Wallyworld for less than a buck and put Eliminator in it. I also got some silicone stoppers from Amazon. At the end of a range session I spray about three pumps into the chamber with the muzzle pointing down and then plug both ends. By the time I get home, pretty much everything comes out with one patch.

Gunzilla is also good for that and will knock out the carbon really well (and it is sold in a pump sprayer at the low end of the purchase quantity range). It just doesn't clear all the copper out the way Eliminator does.
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Old May 16, 2018, 04:47 PM   #37
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This endless fascination with the "best" cleaning/lubrication or what-not when it comes to cleaning and lubricating firearms borders on the psychotic as far as I'm concerned.

1) Clean your guns.
2) Lubricate them properly.
3) Keep them oiled and lubricated.

Pick whatever commercial product you want to use.

Use it.

End of story.
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Old May 16, 2018, 09:32 PM   #38
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Can't agree with that simplistic and borderline insulting assessment. Using the best cleaners and giving them time to work can get you down to just three or four patches to a completely clean bore and avoids brushes entirely. That may not seem important to someone whose never had a problem barrel, but I've had a couple that shot poorly when fouled and that took hour after hour with Sweet's to get clean. Not intollerable at home, but in the middle of a class or when there are successive match days and you have to skip beers with friends after dinner to get the thing ready for the next day, it takes its toll.

The other factor, as mentioned in the test article I linked to, is that a borescope reveals a lot of the old cleaners never actually do get a barrel clean unless it's a smooth, toolmark-free hand-lapped bore.
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Old May 17, 2018, 12:55 PM   #39
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Centuriatior:

Sorry guy, you are plain wrong.

The family Sako 270 was cleaned as consistently over the years as monks pray. Hoppe 9 , back when it was the real thing.

When I went on my mission to see if it really could shoot the way we remembered it shooting, the first thing I did was clean it with the Combo of Bore Tech Eliminator and CK2k. That's basics 101. Like working on an engine. Are the valves right (back in adjustable valve days). If they are not nothing is going to make it run right.

It took me a while as I tackled it over a few days with cleaning, letting it soak in with a wet bore, cleaning again, repeat. Then shot it and cleaned it.

Why?

I could see a LOT of carbon with the bore scope. I could see when it was getting de-carboned. I did not stop until it was clean. It looked nice and shiny down the barrel, the bore scope said NO - all you are seeing is the lands, deep carbon and a bit of copper in the groves.

And yes I had loaded for that gun before and I got it BETTER, but not great. 1.5 inches with hand loads and 3 shots. More than good enough for hunting.

After? Try 5 shot groups at a tad under 1 MOA.

This is a gun with a trigger I am not used to (very nice one but its not a Savage Varmint Acu Trigger) and a heavy hunting cross hair scope.

My guess is I shoot it enough and a bit more load tweaking (not going to do that, its still a hunting gun and its a family keeper) I think I could get under 3/4 MOA.
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Old May 17, 2018, 01:03 PM   #40
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Not intolerable at home, but in the middle of a class or when there are successive match days and you have to skip beers with friends after dinner to get the thing ready for the next day, it takes its toll.
My Mom and two brother would agree on the beer (I am more inclined to ice cream unless is Mexican of Pizza!)

I do have one pretty well lapped barrel (two actually). Still would not fully clean up with Hoppes and or the Hoppes Kroil mix.

Bore scope, yep, carbon still stuck in there and no matter what would not come out.

Post Bore Tech and CK2k? 3 cleaning cycles and its gone.

Many people want to believe their Urban Legends, they are not interested in Science or fact.

Best put: "The beauty about science is its still fact, whether you want to believe it or not.
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Old May 17, 2018, 08:38 PM   #41
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I mostly use MPro7 now. My wife likes it because there is no odor and I like it because it does a good job. But, I still keep Hoppes #9 around and use if on occasion. Best smelling stuff in the world...
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Old May 17, 2018, 08:47 PM   #42
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G96 complete gun covers it all
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Old May 18, 2018, 02:09 AM   #43
RC20
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I love Hoppes smell, to me it is being a kid all over again and guns and cleaning, like coffee and bacon in the morning, memories.

But its bad stuff, until I gave it up I wore Laetrile gloves.

My wife was getting seriously sick on the odor.

And the new stuff works vastly better and no odor and no haz.

Sometimes we have to adjust and in this case while its a loss of good memories, its also much better.

I can always take what I have left and sniff it a bit.
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Old May 18, 2018, 10:38 AM   #44
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RC, I think I saw the same article on Boretech and Slip2000. I was already using BT when cleaning my .50 and switched to S2K after reading the article.

Combining the two when cleaning firearms is one of those matches that were made to go together. I tried every copper remover short of aqueous ammonia mixed with dish soap. None of them did the job that BT could do when it came to removing copper. Getting rid of the smells that get you banished to the outdoors was another plus! My wife is another that can't and didn't want the smell of gun cleaners in the house! Remember, happy wife, happy life!

I won't use JB compound, it's a micro polishing compound and that means that it removes metal. There's absolutely no way to control it by placing it on a patch and running it back and forth in your barrel. If others wish to use it, fine with me but I don't want it my guns.

A lot of the guys that I shoot with have switched to BT after borrowing it from me at the range. Guys have told me that their guns were clean, I handed them my bottle and said to run some down their barrel. When they came back over they always asked me where they could buy it. Barrett has been using it in their firearms and selling it under their name. To me that speaks volumes about a product if a company uses it and sells it under their name!

Try both products together and I know that you'll be using them until something better hits the market.
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Old May 18, 2018, 11:03 AM   #45
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I have been using Bore Tech products for a while. I have a very old rifle that was abused for over 100 years and the carbon fouling was a world record. I contacted Bore Tech to get some of their thoughts on removal, and the guy I talked to gave me some instructions that were not printed. It worked and the old gun still shoots well with 7 shots into 1 3/4". That's about the best I can do with it. It won't shoot factory loads as the bore is too wide.
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Old May 18, 2018, 01:32 PM   #46
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I have cleaned up 100 year of 1917s with BT and CK2k combo.

Gleaming like they came out of the factory. It won't bring back one like the 1903 that has been shot a lot (TE confirms that) but it cleans up anything that is capable of being cleaned.

Not fast as the case of the 270, but that was 58 years of carbon (mostly) accumulation in a fairly hot velocity round.

Proof is in the bore scope.
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Old May 18, 2018, 01:33 PM   #47
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G96 complete gun covers it all
That is very useless as information goes.

What is it, what does it do, what is it characteristics, have you used a boro scope to confirm the results?

Details matter
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Old May 20, 2018, 08:41 PM   #48
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Ed's Red Bore Cleaner is hard to beat , it's effective and a quart each of the 4 ingredients that make it up can all be purchased at the local wally mart , giving you a gallon of good bore solvent for under $20.00 .

I poked around in my garage and found a odd quart of ATF and a leftover 1/2 gallon of mineral spirits (from house painting ) at Walmart I got the K-1 Kerosene ($5.27) and acetone ($3.62) and made a gallon for $8.89...it don't get much better than that !
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Old May 21, 2018, 10:52 AM   #49
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Alas, not so hard to beat anymore. I still have a gallon of it in a paint can somewhere, but the newer chemistries are much faster and more thorough in most instances. The one thing I can do with Ed's Red that I can't afford to do with the others is to submerge a gun in it and let it sit. I left a very carbon-fouled 1911 (about 3,000 rounds of lubricated cast lead bullets through it since the previous cleaning) receiver and slide in it for almost a month once, and that got most of the carbon to turn to a sort of tar that was possible to wipe out without resorting to metal bristle brushes. But if it were, say, Gunzilla, all that carbon would already have been at the bottom of the container when I pulled it out and only the parts in contact with the bottom would need to be wiped off at all.

I don't know if Ed has ever considered updating the recipe himself. I'll ask him.
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Old May 23, 2018, 05:35 PM   #50
F. Guffey
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You're doing what I do. Carbon deposits harden as they sit, so the sooner you get a solvent on them, the easier they come out.
Again, I was in Victoria, Texas at a gun store. They had an 03 Rock Island that had no visible evidence of having rifling. So I made them a deal; I told them to convince me the rifle had rifling and I would purchases it. The owner worked, sweated, swore opened a new bottle and can and then started with new brushes. And then finally the hint of rifling, once I saw the rifling I purchased the rifle.

I had friends that I knew did not want to bel left out when it came to cleaning the rifle, It was not long before they informed me the barrel was impossible and the barrel was shot out and it will be nothing but a black hold forever.

Anyhow when I finished cleaning the barrel it looked brand new with excellent rifling. And then there were all of those scary stories about blowing up 03s.

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