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Old May 10, 2018, 08:05 PM   #1
porklard
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10mm Magnum Revolver

In November I bought the new Ruger SRH Revolver in 10mm Auto. In April I got a 10mm finish reamer from Dave Manson and converted the cylinder to 10mm Magnum. It's a great shooting piece of steel.

I have been working up loads in H110 and AA#9 and just finished a workup in AA#7 and Longshot. I was disappointed in the H110 - it doesn't increase velocity through the workup from 20 to 21 gr. The AA#9 went up nicely though, finishing at 18gr and 1485 fps. There were no signs of overpressure so I will push that a bit more.

Does anyone have any pointers?
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Old May 11, 2018, 06:33 AM   #2
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I assume you've seen Taffin's 10mm Mag load data (?) here:

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt10mag.htm

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/ta...Powder&Source=

Propellants that work well in the 10mm AUTO should work equally well in the 10mm Magnum, the latter cartridge being simply an "extended" or longer-cased 10mm.

Possibly try magnum pistol primers if you haven't already.

Probably more than you want to know, ... but the 10mm Magnum is a distant derivative of the ancient Herter's .401 'Power Mag', which once briefly competed with Elmer Keith's then-hot-new 'police cartridge,' the .41 Magnum. Think very early 1960s. Then it faded.

Dimensionally and ballistically, Herter's .401 is similar to the 10mm Magnum, except the .401 cartridge was designed for use in a single-action revolver, whereas the 10mm Mag was designed for use in IAI's old AutoMag IV, a 1911-ish semi-auto pistol.

Here's a link to a good review of the details and history of Herter's .401 cartridge, with load data that bears some interesting proximity to 10mm Mag load data. You'll note the similarity of bullet-weights and propellants used, and the velocities obtained, in relation to Taffin's 10mm Mag data. Might be helpful in extrapolating loads.

The .401 load data follows the review. Again, just FYI:

http://www.gunblast.com/Fryxell_Herters401.htm


Last edited by agtman; May 11, 2018 at 07:20 AM.
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Old May 11, 2018, 07:26 AM   #3
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Moving this to the reloading forum.
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Old May 12, 2018, 07:29 PM   #4
GarrettJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porklard View Post
The AA#9 went up nicely though, finishing at 18gr and 1485 fps.
What bullet weight are you using?
And what barrel length?

Last edited by GarrettJ; May 13, 2018 at 10:16 AM.
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Old May 12, 2018, 07:50 PM   #5
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The 10mm SRH has a 6.5" barrel.
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Old May 16, 2018, 04:31 PM   #6
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I use 180gr HAP and XTP since all my 10mm was for my Glock 29. I tried some AA#7 from 14 to 15gr in .2 increments - 1343 fps. I tried Longshot from 8.2 to 9 in .2 increments but it is slow at 1068 fps plus it left the cartridge cases blackened - I think that means the pressure is not high enough to expand the case and seal the chamber. It also doesn't fill the case much.

I did look at the .41 Mag - I have a Blackhawk and load 210gr bullets for it. I think I could get some 200gr HAP and XTP and extrapolate the 41 loads - that seems to be what agtman was thinking (and thanks for the tip about the Power Mag.). I had some Blue Dot but it meters so poorly I used it up and wasn't going to buy anymore but I think now I should.

Thanks for all the really good info so far!
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Old May 16, 2018, 04:36 PM   #7
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agtman, I just took another look at Taffin and he used magnum primers - that is likely why I don't get the chrono numbers he posts. Here comes another hazmat fee...
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Old May 16, 2018, 09:29 PM   #8
GarrettJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porklard View Post
I use 180gr HAP and XTP...I tried Longshot from 8.2 to 9 in .2 increments but it is slow at 1068 fps plus it left the cartridge cases blackened - I think that means the pressure is not high enough to expand the case and seal the chamber. It also doesn't fill the case much.
I think you're right. Especially since Hodgdon's website lists 8.5 to 9.5 gr. of Longshot for a "regular" 10mm. So loading 9.0 gr. in a longer case with more internal volume would reduce pressure and velocity noticeably.

So along the lines of what you're doing, and since the cylinder on my Blackhawk will accommodate it, I started working up some 10mm loads at standard length, and then went to a longer OAL.

I worked a Hornady FMJ-TC up to 9.0 gr. Longshot at 1.270" (1326 fps.), and then I started at 9.0 gr. and moved the OAL out to 1.395". This is roughly half way between regular 10mm and 10mm Magnum.

At this length I have so far worked up to 10.6 gr. Longshot (1377 fps) with no signs of excess pressure. I expect I can go up a fair bit more on the charge weight without issue. I just need to load some and go try them out. With your longer case and OAL, you should be able to safely work your way up quite a bit from where I've gotten to.

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Old May 18, 2018, 05:48 AM   #9
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GarrettJ, Thanks. I was using the Hornady 10th and it shows 8.2 gr Longshot max for 10mm Auto, but I must have used the Hodgdon data in the past because I have recorded 9.2gr Longshot at 1211fps in the Glock 29. That works to help confirm much of what agtman wrote. I bought some LP Magnum primers and loaded 21.0gr H110. Where I recorded 1239fps with CCI LP Primers, I got 1320fps with the CCI LP Magnum primers.

As long as you are using Longshot I will go back to it for some more workup. I wasn't aware Ruger had a 10mm chambering for the BH. Nice.

Also, I loaded 18.5gr of AA#9 but it went backward to 1395fps. I will load that with Mag primers and see what it does. I haven't been concerned about accuracy yet, nor have I begun to compare any of my 41 Mag load work to see where the 10mm Mag fits.
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Old May 20, 2018, 04:27 PM   #10
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Good to hear ...

I figured you'd get better 10mm Mag velocities with the magnum primers. I use the CCI mag primers in my heavy 10mm AUTO handloads.

Quote:
I did look at the .41 Mag - I have a Blackhawk and load 210gr bullets for it. I think I could get some 200gr HAP and XTP and extrapolate the 41 loads - that seems to be what agtman was thinking (and thanks for the tip about the Power Mag.). I had some Blue Dot but it meters so poorly I used it up and wasn't going to buy anymore but I think now I should.
Actually, for extrapolation purposes, I'd be studying the load data posted at that link to the Herter's .401 Power Mag, rather than the .41 Mag. Dimensionally, the 10mm Magnum cartridge is closer to the .401 P-Mag than it is to the .41 Mag - especially if you intend to shoot hardcast bullets of the same or similar weight as were cited in the .401 data.

Good luck!
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Old May 20, 2018, 04:56 PM   #11
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Here's a link to a YouTube vid of Jeff at 'Gun Blast' reviewing Ruger's new GP-100 Match in 10mm. It uses moon clips like the S&W 610s.

However, Jeff then sent the revolver to Tyler Gun Works in Texas to have the chambers of the cylinder reamed to 10mm Mag specs, along with a couple of other goodies.

He talks about that work and some of his 10mm Mag handloads in the vid. Jeff mentions that factory 10mm Mag ammo is available from Double Tap. (The DT load he fired in the vid used the light, 135gn bullets).

Moon clips shown are loaded with .40S&W, 10mm AUTO, and 10mm Magnum cartridges.

Just FYI:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CsrbCI...e_continue=278


Last edited by agtman; May 21, 2018 at 06:21 AM.
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Old May 22, 2018, 09:47 AM   #12
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Thanks agtman! Excellent video. I am having a lot of fun with this project.

I watched a friend shoot my Redhawk 44Mag and the SRH 10mm Mag - the 44 is still a bigger blast, but the 10mm Mag is as much fun. I will continue loading up and get some 200gr XTP and post my results as I go.
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Old May 22, 2018, 05:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Thanks agtman! Excellent video. I am having a lot of fun with this project. I watched a friend shoot my Redhawk 44Mag and the SRH 10mm Mag - the 44 is still a bigger blast, but the 10mm Mag is as much fun. I will continue loading up and get some 200gr XTP and post my results as I go.
Have fun and good luck. Don't forget to try the heavy hardcast boolits - 200, 220 & 230gns.

My current favorite is SNS Casting's 220gn 10mm poly-coated HC slugs. The poly-coating prevents the barrel from leading up.

In the Glock 10mms, the poly also makes the round 'slick' for easy-feeding going up the ramp. That's not a concern in a wheelgun, but keeping the barrel from leading up is an obvious cross-over benefit as between the two platforms.

Still am impressed with Taffin's honesty in comparing the 10mm & .41 Magnums:

Quote:
The 10mm Magnum has definite applications as a hunting pistol and a long range silhouette pistol. Shooting informally at long ranges of 100 to 200 meters and using rocks as targets convinced me of this. Anything the .41 Magnum can do, the 10mm Magnum can also do and perhaps do it even a little faster and a little better. That is a tough confession for an old sixgun man to make.
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Old May 25, 2018, 12:35 PM   #14
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Taffin is entitled to an opinion or two, but in no way will a 10mm Mag equal or out-do a .41 Mag.
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Old May 25, 2018, 04:45 PM   #15
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Porklard,

I know you are done with Blue Dot anyway, but for others considering it, I would avoid any load of Blue Dot in your 10 mm Magnum. In late July of 2008, Alliant issued a warning they say was based on their ongoing product review testing to stop using Blue Dot behind 125-grain bullets in .357 Magnum and to stop using it altogether in the .41 Magnum, even though they had previously published loads for it.

Alliant has never explained the nature of the problem they found. Modern transducers display the full pressure curve, where the old ones only registered the peak, so they may have seen something funny with that. Or they may simply have found the pressure standard deviation in those loads was outside of SAAMI standards and could predict some percentage of their customers were going to be on the high tail of the bell curve and could experience a kaboom. Any SD outside the SAAMI standard is probably a liability red flag for them, anyway.

Of course, people used Blue Dot for a lot of years in the warned-against combinations and most never experienced an issue during that time. So those who used it a lot will probably harumph and declare it's all nonsense because they don't understand the statistical nature of it. Their odds, as individuals, of seeing a problem may be low, but Alliant has large numbers of customers firing a much larger number of rounds, so the odds of it happening to one or more customer at some time may not be so small. You just don't want to be the unlucky one.

Anyway, I don't know if your 10 mm Magnum is close enough in powder space shape and size to the .41 Magnum that it should be considered affected. I would just assume the warning should be applied to it by extension unless you contact Alliant and they specifically tell you it is OK.
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Old Yesterday, 07:38 AM   #16
agtman
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Quote:
Taffin is entitled to an opinion or two, but in no way will a 10mm Mag equal or out-do a .41 Mag.
How do you know? Did you perhaps test a 10mm Mag IAI AutoMag IV head-to-head against a Desert Eagle .41 Mag?

Dude, did you even read Taffin's article and his load analysis? The guy's shot more magnum cartridges, including the .41, in more types of handguns, than any other gunwriter alive today.

But regardless, ... even if the 10mm Mag merely equaled the .41 Mag's ballistic output (fps/fpe), it still has the advantage of being able to use a much wider range of bullet-weights and styles, including hardcast boolits, than the .41, the selection for which is quite limited.

And that advantage exists before you even consider the versatility of the platforms: Ruger's 6" 10mm SRH and, now, the 4" 10mm GP-100. Post-conversion, both wheelguns can load and fire three different cartridges using the same moon clips, which by design facilitate quicker loading and extraction than the default finger-fumble method.

Last edited by agtman; Yesterday at 05:50 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 07:51 AM   #17
agtman
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Quote:
I know you are done with Blue Dot anyway, but for others considering it, I would avoid any load of Blue Dot in your 10 mm Magnum. In late July of 2008, Alliant issued a warning they say was based on their ongoing product review testing to stop using Blue Dot behind 125-grain bullets in .357 Magnum and to stop using it altogether in the .41 Magnum, even though they had previously published loads for it.

Alliant has never explained the nature of the problem they found. Modern transducers display the full pressure curve, where the old ones only registered the peak, so they may have seen something funny with that. Or they may simply have found the pressure standard deviation in those loads was outside of SAAMI standards and could predict some percentage of their customers were going to be on the high tail of the bell curve and could experience a kaboom. Any SD outside the SAAMI standard is probably a liability red flag for them, anyway.
Wasn't aware of that info, so thanks for the heads-up.

I checked the load data (@ the GunBlast link) for the Herter's .401 PowerMag, which is closer to the 10mm Mag than the .41, and didn't see any reference to loading with BlueDot.


http://www.gunblast.com/Fryxell_Herters401.htm
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Old Yesterday, 12:31 PM   #18
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This is the text of the original warning, which we can post as it asks to be distributed. They want the warning to get out.
ATK Commercial Products
900 Ehlen Drive Anoka, MN 55303
www.atk.com

July 25, 2008

Dear Functional Wholesaler:

Please distribute this letter to all of your customers immediately with instructions for them to do the following:

• Post this letter in a highly visible area of their establishment
• Distribute to their customers as soon as possible

Alliant Powder Blue Dot® Product Safety Notice

Alliant Powder® periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that recommended recipes have not changed over time.
During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder’s Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

• Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
• Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).

Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter.
Thank you for your cooperation and if you have any questions or concerns please contact me at [email protected] or call me at 540-639-8503.

Dick Quesenberry
Alliant Powder
Product Line Manager
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