Poor boy countersink slide stop

cuba · March 31, 2010, 02:11 AM

Poor boys countersink slide stop

Hi guys for all of you that would like the countersink slide stop treatment I can explain to you how I did mine myself.

I started by looking around the web to see some and there were some that were very narrow and the pins were not rounded of until I saw Bill Wilson Carry pistol I thought it was perfect because it was wide enough to actually slip your finger in the hole and push the pin, I don't have a shop so I did mine on my work bench, I was told that it was going to be difficult to radius the tip of the pin so that’s were I started.

I knew that what ever I did I shouldn't change the diameter of the pin shaft or the original hole in the frame. The first thing I did was slip the pin through the frame and darken the protrusion with a marker after that, I took it to the grinding wheel and removed the extra marked pin carefully avoiding the pin from over heating.

I didn't want to weaken the steel; I removed just enough to leave it just a little long I figured that while trying to radius the tip of the pin I might need extra material to get it right, I started turning the pin around the grinding wheel until

I got a rough radius.
Now to finish it of and make a perfect polished radius I cut a piece of plumbers emery cloth about 3/4"x 3/4" and laid it on top of a 7/32 hex head screw tip driver you don't want to use a larger one that can grind any portion of the remaining shaft you'll notice that your rough tip probably will be pointier than what you want that’s why you want to leave the pin just a little longer initially.

Well hear come the fun part radius the tip of the pin, install your 7/32" driver to a drill set the emery on top hold it down with the tip of the pin and let it rip at a high rpm the 7/32" will not allow the pin to go to deep which is good but it will polish the tip of the pin to a perfect radius and it will remove the extra pointed tip length with out affecting the remaining shaft.

Now for cutting the countersink on the frame I installed 3/8" new drill bit and placed it on top of the frame hole and drilled at a slow rpm keep your drill straight and only go as deep as the wight of the bit just remove enough material to create a dimple which will be about 1/8" deep excluding the tip of the bit that will fall into the original frame hole about 1/16".

Now I thought about a ball cutter but I knew that if I used it there would be no way to keep it dead center using a hand drill and I thought about a counter sinker but was afraid that the pointed guide could ruin the original frame shaft, so for me a new 3/8" bit would keep it dead center with out even touching the frame shaft.

After I needed to smooth and polish the counter sink and what I used was the same piece of emery which I put across the hole I than installed 422 dremel polishing tip on my drill and pushed it in wish contoured the dremel polisher and at a high rpm polished the inside of the hole until it was perfect about 1 1/2minutes.

Make sure you use a small piece of emery so that it doesn't leave swirl marks on the frame mine left a bit of marks that I removed with emery cloth lightly polished along the frame and it looked like new, I've attached some comparative pictures of my 1911 along side of Bill Wilson Carry pistol.

Cuba

James K · March 31, 2010, 08:19 PM

And this is to do what? Prevent the slide stop from being pushed out by a very tight holster?

As I said on another post, the slide stop in a 1911 type pistol is supposed to be made so it cannot move to the left except at the takedown notch. If it can, that shows that the gun maker had no idea what he was doing or how the system is supposed to work.

Yes, in rare cases, an extra tight holster can cause problems. When the gun is inserted into the holster, the holster pushes back the slide and if tight in the area above the trigger guard can also push in on the slide stop and disable the gun.

But hundreds of thousands of Model 1911's were carried in holsters for what must be a total of centuries without that happening and it would be a very bad holster that would cause it. Sounds a bit like a solution to a non-problem but they are, after all, your guns.

Jim

cuba · March 31, 2010, 10:31 PM

Jim

The slide stop pin is shortened as an enhancement being used as an option for high dollar 1911, it changes the look of the 1911, also it moves the pin back if your using a laser grips, and it also allows a person to practice point shooting techniques with out the probabilities of accidentally pushing the slide stop pin and pistol disassembling while firing the pistol.http://www.pointshooting.com/1aversus.htm

Cuba

Hunter Customs · March 31, 2010, 10:36 PM

I agree with everything Jim just told you.
Also keep in mind that you just weakened your frame in a very critical area.
This is one modification that I always advise against and flat refuse to do on a hard use gun.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

cuba · April 1, 2010, 10:32 AM

Bob

This thread was meant as a tutorial for people that would like this enhancement done but can't find any one to do it for them.

The countersink on my frame didn't really remove that mush metal just enough to create a dimple, I was left with 3/16 at the top and 5/16 at the bottom.

What actually puts excessive wear on the slide stop pin is when people are advise to increase the recoil spring to 18 1/2#, now that will truly put a battering on your barrel lugs and slide stop pin.

I chose to slow my frame by a combination of 14# recoil spring, 25#main spring and changing my firing pin stop with the EGW small radius 5/64. I have shot about 2500 rounds of 230 gr with 5gr bulls eye powder and my frame does not show any wear at the slid stop shaft. Thanks for your input.

Cuba

Hunter Customs · April 2, 2010, 08:32 AM

Cuba, I understand full well about heavier recoil springs and forward battering, I agree with what you are saying about them. I've advised shooters for years against heavier recoil springs.

Still the modification that you are making to the frame weakens it in a critical support area.

Granted using a 14 pound recoil spring, shooting milder loads, using a heavier main spring and a small radius firing pin stop will slow down the slide speed, however with enough rounds fired you will see some forward battering.

Keep in mind the hardness of the parts involved that contribute to forward battering. Most slides will test at 40 RC, most barrels will test at 42 RC, most slide stops will test at 52 RC, and the frames test at 24 to 28 RC.
The softest part being the frame is what will show signs of battering first.

I read some of the article you refered to about point shooting. I'm a big believer in point or instinct shooting for defensive purposes, however there's a much better method of doing it without laying your finger along side the 1911 frame.

Through all my years of shooting and competing with 1911 guns, I've shot well over 200,000 rounds and have never walked a slide stop out of the frame to cause a malfunction in the gun.

Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

guncrank · April 14, 2010, 08:26 AM

I am more of a lurker that poster but instead of a drill bit a hand turned countersunk will make a countersink with more control than anew drill bit which can grab, IMO

CEW

hockeysew · April 14, 2010, 10:17 PM

There is only one way to safely flush a slide stop. You need to be very aware of the way the pistol functions and how loads are transferred to the frame.

I side with Bob on this one. When it is done it needs to be done correctly. I would not care to imagine the repercussions if done poorly on a 10mm.

That being said when I do it it is done with a carbide 3/8" ball end mill. I only go .060 deep into the frame.
That way you have:
1-An evenly radiused depression.
2-Controlled removal of frame material.
3-Minimal impact on frame strength.

March 31, 2010, 02:11 AM	#1
cuba Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Lake Placid Florida Posts: 90	Poor boy countersink slide stop Poor boys countersink slide stop Hi guys for all of you that would like the countersink slide stop treatment I can explain to you how I did mine myself. I started by looking around the web to see some and there were some that were very narrow and the pins were not rounded of until I saw Bill Wilson Carry pistol I thought it was perfect because it was wide enough to actually slip your finger in the hole and push the pin, I don't have a shop so I did mine on my work bench, I was told that it was going to be difficult to radius the tip of the pin so that’s were I started. I knew that what ever I did I shouldn't change the diameter of the pin shaft or the original hole in the frame. The first thing I did was slip the pin through the frame and darken the protrusion with a marker after that, I took it to the grinding wheel and removed the extra marked pin carefully avoiding the pin from over heating. I didn't want to weaken the steel; I removed just enough to leave it just a little long I figured that while trying to radius the tip of the pin I might need extra material to get it right, I started turning the pin around the grinding wheel until I got a rough radius. Now to finish it of and make a perfect polished radius I cut a piece of plumbers emery cloth about 3/4"x 3/4" and laid it on top of a 7/32 hex head screw tip driver you don't want to use a larger one that can grind any portion of the remaining shaft you'll notice that your rough tip probably will be pointier than what you want that’s why you want to leave the pin just a little longer initially. Well hear come the fun part radius the tip of the pin, install your 7/32" driver to a drill set the emery on top hold it down with the tip of the pin and let it rip at a high rpm the 7/32" will not allow the pin to go to deep which is good but it will polish the tip of the pin to a perfect radius and it will remove the extra pointed tip length with out affecting the remaining shaft. Now for cutting the countersink on the frame I installed 3/8" new drill bit and placed it on top of the frame hole and drilled at a slow rpm keep your drill straight and only go as deep as the wight of the bit just remove enough material to create a dimple which will be about 1/8" deep excluding the tip of the bit that will fall into the original frame hole about 1/16". Now I thought about a ball cutter but I knew that if I used it there would be no way to keep it dead center using a hand drill and I thought about a counter sinker but was afraid that the pointed guide could ruin the original frame shaft, so for me a new 3/8" bit would keep it dead center with out even touching the frame shaft. After I needed to smooth and polish the counter sink and what I used was the same piece of emery which I put across the hole I than installed 422 dremel polishing tip on my drill and pushed it in wish contoured the dremel polisher and at a high rpm polished the inside of the hole until it was perfect about 1 1/2minutes. Make sure you use a small piece of emery so that it doesn't leave swirl marks on the frame mine left a bit of marks that I removed with emery cloth lightly polished along the frame and it looked like new, I've attached some comparative pictures of my 1911 along side of Bill Wilson Carry pistol. Cuba Last edited by cuba; March 31, 2010 at 02:17 AM.

March 31, 2010, 10:31 PM	#3
cuba Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Lake Placid Florida Posts: 90	poor boys countersink slide stop Jim The slide stop pin is shortened as an enhancement being used as an option for high dollar 1911, it changes the look of the 1911, also it moves the pin back if your using a laser grips, and it also allows a person to practice point shooting techniques with out the probabilities of accidentally pushing the slide stop pin and pistol disassembling while firing the pistol.http://www.pointshooting.com/1aversus.htm Cuba

April 1, 2010, 10:32 AM	#5
cuba Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Lake Placid Florida Posts: 90	Poor boys countersink slide stop Bob This thread was meant as a tutorial for people that would like this enhancement done but can't find any one to do it for them. The countersink on my frame didn't really remove that mush metal just enough to create a dimple, I was left with 3/16 at the top and 5/16 at the bottom. What actually puts excessive wear on the slide stop pin is when people are advise to increase the recoil spring to 18 1/2#, now that will truly put a battering on your barrel lugs and slide stop pin. I chose to slow my frame by a combination of 14# recoil spring, 25#main spring and changing my firing pin stop with the EGW small radius 5/64. I have shot about 2500 rounds of 230 gr with 5gr bulls eye powder and my frame does not show any wear at the slid stop shaft. Thanks for your input. Cuba

April 14, 2010, 08:26 AM	#7
guncrank Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2006 Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large Posts: 430	I am more of a lurker that poster but instead of a drill bit a hand turned countersunk will make a countersink with more control than anew drill bit which can grab, IMO CEW __________________ Republic Arms and Armaments 07 1-502-231-1118 Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public

March 31, 2010, 08:19 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	And this is to do what? Prevent the slide stop from being pushed out by a very tight holster? As I said on another post, the slide stop in a 1911 type pistol is supposed to be made so it cannot move to the left except at the takedown notch. If it can, that shows that the gun maker had no idea what he was doing or how the system is supposed to work. Yes, in rare cases, an extra tight holster can cause problems. When the gun is inserted into the holster, the holster pushes back the slide and if tight in the area above the trigger guard can also push in on the slide stop and disable the gun. But hundreds of thousands of Model 1911's were carried in holsters for what must be a total of centuries without that happening and it would be a very bad holster that would cause it. Sounds a bit like a solution to a non-problem but they are, after all, your guns. Jim

March 31, 2010, 10:36 PM	#4
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	I agree with everything Jim just told you. Also keep in mind that you just weakened your frame in a very critical area. This is one modification that I always advise against and flat refuse to do on a hard use gun. Regards Bob Hunter www.huntercustoms.com

April 2, 2010, 08:32 AM	#6
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	Cuba, I understand full well about heavier recoil springs and forward battering, I agree with what you are saying about them. I've advised shooters for years against heavier recoil springs. Still the modification that you are making to the frame weakens it in a critical support area. Granted using a 14 pound recoil spring, shooting milder loads, using a heavier main spring and a small radius firing pin stop will slow down the slide speed, however with enough rounds fired you will see some forward battering. Keep in mind the hardness of the parts involved that contribute to forward battering. Most slides will test at 40 RC, most barrels will test at 42 RC, most slide stops will test at 52 RC, and the frames test at 24 to 28 RC. The softest part being the frame is what will show signs of battering first. I read some of the article you refered to about point shooting. I'm a big believer in point or instinct shooting for defensive purposes, however there's a much better method of doing it without laying your finger along side the 1911 frame. Through all my years of shooting and competing with 1911 guns, I've shot well over 200,000 rounds and have never walked a slide stop out of the frame to cause a malfunction in the gun. Regards Bob Hunter www.huntercustoms.com

April 14, 2010, 10:17 PM	#8
hockeysew Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Posts: 91	There is only one way to safely flush a slide stop. You need to be very aware of the way the pistol functions and how loads are transferred to the frame. I side with Bob on this one. When it is done it needs to be done correctly. I would not care to imagine the repercussions if done poorly on a 10mm. That being said when I do it it is done with a carbide 3/8" ball end mill. I only go .060 deep into the frame. That way you have: 1-An evenly radiused depression. 2-Controlled removal of frame material. 3-Minimal impact on frame strength.