Sturdy Safes

HummerGuyInFL · February 16, 2006, 02:11 PM

Anyone own one of these safes (besides leadcounsel). I'm looking for a new safe within a price range of $2500 and would like something around 35 cubic feet. I've looked at the Sturdy safes but they don't have any official fire rating (omega, UL, etc). They look good on paper but I wish I could compare them to the other safes out there.

I'm also considering the Liberty Lincoln 35 which has a 75min 1200 degree fire rating by Omega...

The wife doesn't like the Sturdy as much since they are indeed less aesthetically pleasing to the eye but luckily it's my decision.

BigV · February 16, 2006, 05:14 PM

I have had a Browning now for about 15 years. It's rated at 1200 degrees for 90 minutes buy UL. It's a great safe.

a1abdj · February 16, 2006, 08:28 PM

For the money, I think the AMSEC BF line is one of the best buys.

1/2" Steel plate door
90 minute fire "rating"
Composite construction
Built by a real safe company

Quote:

I have had a Browning now for about 15 years. It's rated at 1200 degrees for 90 minutes buy UL. It's a great safe.

This is one of the tricks perpetuated by gun safe companies. Browning safes do not have a UL fire rating....they have a UL RSC rating. The fire ratings are by independant labs.

Most gun safes do not come anywhere near meeting the UL requirements for fire.

FirstFreedom · February 16, 2006, 08:37 PM

My opinion at present (and I could be wrong) is that if it ain't fire rated by UL, it ain't fire rated. I mean, who the heck is Omega? Sounds like something Liberty just made up (subsidiary) to approve their own safes. Is this company used by any OTHER safe makers to rate their safes, besides Liberty? I just ain't buyin' it.

HummerGuyInFL · February 16, 2006, 11:41 PM

FF, several other safe manufactures use Omega, including the Browning safe BigV posted. They are an independent testing company, here's their website; http://www.intertek-etlsemko.com/por...ma=CUST_PORTAL

a1abdj · February 17, 2006, 02:38 AM

Omega is a well known independant lab, but as stated, their ratings don't really mean much.

The UL fire tests cover 3 basic tests:

Heat exposure
Impact resistance
Explosion (caused by internal pressure)

UL rates their safes starting at 1,700 degrees. Most gun safes are tested in the 1,200 degree range.

UL safes are heated then dropped to simulate the fall through a floor during a fire. The safe must remain intact. Would a 12 gauge steel box heated to 1200 degrees stay in one piece if it fell through a floor and onto concrete?

Most document safes use moisture to protect their contents. This is why they have the explosion test. The moisture must not build up to such a degree that it blows the safe open from within. Most gun safes use a dry insulation, so this isn't really an issue with most gun safes.

Also, a fire resistant safe is only designed to keep paperwork in "readable" condition. It is entirely possible that a safe's contents will char, melt, bubble, and become disfigured. Many people are under the false impression that the safe will keep their possessions in pristine condition.

DBOUNCE1 · February 17, 2006, 11:53 AM

I used to be a saales rep for liberty safes they really are a good product

a1abdj · February 17, 2006, 11:59 AM

Nothing personal against Liberty, but out of all of the manufacturers, they're one of the worst at marketing their products for uses which they are not designed.

They are also famous for using "safes that somebody tried to break into" on the sales floors of their dealerships. In reality, these safes were beaten up to look bad, but no real attempt was made on them.

625 · February 17, 2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

They are also famous for using "safes that somebody tried to break into" on the sales floors of their dealerships. In reality, these safes were beaten up to look bad, but no real attempt was made on them.

Have any proof, or is this just another unsubstantiated claim? Not saying you are wrong, but I am saying that I'm skeptical of your claim.

I think their testimonials at their website are pretty lame, but they seem to make a decent safe.

rapier144 · February 17, 2006, 04:16 PM

About them using a beat up safe as a demo i've been to a gun shop that has a safe thats been broken into. Well thats what the salesman said. It was pretty convincing to look at the inside of the safe. The door was made out of sheetmetal. It wouldn't take much to get into it. I'm going with the one a1abdj mentioned i haven't been able to find one that has a heavier door than that one. Those safes with the 1.5" thick door are just made of sheetmetal not very convincing to me.

625 · February 17, 2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Those safes with the 1.5" thick door are just made of sheetmetal not very convincing to me.

Wow, I thought Liberty used high carbon steel. Thanks for your erroneous input.

rapier144 · February 17, 2006, 04:45 PM

I didn't mention liberty safe go back and read what i said i was talking about the safe i looked at.

rapier144 · February 17, 2006, 04:53 PM

Liberty safe use an outer shell of 10 gauge high carbon steel which isn't 3/16 thick i call that sheet metal. Unless i'm using the wrong gauge scale. Thats between 1/8th and 9/64ths of an inch or i'm i mistaken?

rapier144 · February 17, 2006, 04:59 PM

Unless you're talking the top of the line safe from liberty

625 · February 17, 2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

I didn't mention liberty safe go back and read what i said i was talking about the safe i looked at.

Quote:

About them using a beat up safe as a demo

The three posts above yours mentioned Liberty. So who is "them" in your statement above? You mentioned no brand, so I assumed you were speaking about Liberty. My bad.

My only point is Liberty safes don't suck, but their nice ones are expensive, yes. Are there better deals out there? I guess it depends on where you live and how much it costs to ship it to your house.

rapier144 · February 17, 2006, 05:27 PM

Not a problem 625 i realize i was vague on which safe i was referring to. I was trying to make a point that even though a door my seem very strudy in fact it's an illusion. Its not really 2" solid. I was just shocked when i saw the inside of the door. Made me realize that all safe aren't equal.

HummerGuyInFL · February 17, 2006, 05:55 PM

a1abdj, out of curiosity, why is the Amsec (say HF 6040) that much better than a Liberty Lincoln? It appears to be in almost the same price range as the Liberty Lincoln 35 I was looking at. I notice the Amsec uses a proprietary fire insulation as opposed to Liberty's Sheet Rock but both safes use 10 gauge steel for the outer shell.

a1abdj · February 17, 2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

a1abdj, out of curiosity, why is the Amsec (say HF 6040) that much better than a Liberty Lincoln? It appears to be in almost the same price range as the Liberty Lincoln 35 I was looking at. I notice the Amsec uses a proprietary fire insulation as opposed to Liberty's Sheet Rock but both safes use 10 gauge steel for the outer shell.

The AMSEC body is 10 gauge (1/8") on the outside, and 16 gauge on the inside. The hollow cavity is filled with a concrete type material which creates a seamless fire barrier, and substantially more burglar resistance than a loose sheet of gypsum board.

Quote:

Have any proof, or is this just another unsubstantiated claim? Not saying you are wrong, but I am saying that I'm skeptical of your claim.

Well no, I didn't wire myself and catch the CEO of Liberty fessing up. I have spoken to many people across the country that have seen these safes, and all have been told similar stories.

As someone who deals with safes all day long, I can make the following observations:

First. There was no damage to the lock or the handle. These are often the first things hit, bent, twisted, or broken in 99% of the attempted burglaries we see. Most people assume that knocking off the lock or handle will open the safe.

Second. Liberty paints their safes after they have been bolted to their shipping skids. As such, the skid is often painted to the safe and has to be knocked loose. The safe I have personally seen is still painted to the shipping skid....again.....90% of the time the safe is removed from the skid.

Third. The damage done to the safe was reported to have been from a sledge and prybar, yet no entry was made to the safe. An average person could start ripping a hole through 12 gauge sheet in about 3 swings. This safe was hit in excess of 50 times. Either the person doing the swinging was a 5 year old girl, or the person swinging didn't want to swing hard enough to really cause any damage. The "prying" simply scratched the safe, and didn't tear the door apart like it really would have. Again...very minimal effort.

I can show you photos of safes that were burglarized, or had attempts made on them. They in no way resemble what these Liberty safes look like.

Ken O · February 17, 2006, 08:52 PM

I'm not going to recommend a brand, do some searches and find out some of the finer points. One big suggestion: When I bought my safe many years ago, I found several that were using drywall for their fire protection and charging hundreds of dollars more, they use their brand recognition and people blindly bought them. If you want fire protection find a manufacture that uses Kaowool or generic type of ceramic wool. This stuff is used in powerhouse boilers, steel mills and refinery furnaces and works very well. I found several that used it, and it wont cost any more then the (shudder) drywall.
That said, I'm not sure anything will save your rifes if your house burns down, just dont pay a couple hundred dollars for a sheet or two of drywall.

February 16, 2006, 02:11 PM	#1
HummerGuyInFL Junior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Posts: 3	Sturdy Safes Anyone own one of these safes (besides leadcounsel). I'm looking for a new safe within a price range of $2500 and would like something around 35 cubic feet. I've looked at the Sturdy safes but they don't have any official fire rating (omega, UL, etc). They look good on paper but I wish I could compare them to the other safes out there. I'm also considering the Liberty Lincoln 35 which has a 75min 1200 degree fire rating by Omega... The wife doesn't like the Sturdy as much since they are indeed less aesthetically pleasing to the eye but luckily it's my decision.

February 17, 2006, 02:38 AM	#6
a1abdj Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 496	Omega is a well known independant lab, but as stated, their ratings don't really mean much. The UL fire tests cover 3 basic tests: Heat exposure Impact resistance Explosion (caused by internal pressure) UL rates their safes starting at 1,700 degrees. Most gun safes are tested in the 1,200 degree range. UL safes are heated then dropped to simulate the fall through a floor during a fire. The safe must remain intact. Would a 12 gauge steel box heated to 1200 degrees stay in one piece if it fell through a floor and onto concrete? Most document safes use moisture to protect their contents. This is why they have the explosion test. The moisture must not build up to such a degree that it blows the safe open from within. Most gun safes use a dry insulation, so this isn't really an issue with most gun safes. Also, a fire resistant safe is only designed to keep paperwork in "readable" condition. It is entirely possible that a safe's contents will char, melt, bubble, and become disfigured. Many people are under the false impression that the safe will keep their possessions in pristine condition. __________________ www.zykansafe.com

February 17, 2006, 11:53 AM	#7
DBOUNCE1 Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: OMAHA Posts: 189	I used to be a saales rep for liberty safes they really are a good product __________________ KICK THE TIRES AND LIGHT THE FIRES

February 17, 2006, 11:59 AM	#8
a1abdj Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 496	Nothing personal against Liberty, but out of all of the manufacturers, they're one of the worst at marketing their products for uses which they are not designed. They are also famous for using "safes that somebody tried to break into" on the sales floors of their dealerships. In reality, these safes were beaten up to look bad, but no real attempt was made on them. __________________ www.zykansafe.com

February 17, 2006, 04:16 PM	#10
rapier144 Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Location: tennessee Posts: 686	About them using a beat up safe as a demo i've been to a gun shop that has a safe thats been broken into. Well thats what the salesman said. It was pretty convincing to look at the inside of the safe. The door was made out of sheetmetal. It wouldn't take much to get into it. I'm going with the one a1abdj mentioned i haven't been able to find one that has a heavier door than that one. Those safes with the 1.5" thick door are just made of sheetmetal not very convincing to me. __________________ Scan and Breathe Scan and Breathe Stupidity should hurt

February 16, 2006, 05:14 PM	#2
BigV Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 328	I have had a Browning now for about 15 years. It's rated at 1200 degrees for 90 minutes buy UL. It's a great safe.

February 16, 2006, 08:37 PM	#4
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	My opinion at present (and I could be wrong) is that if it ain't fire rated by UL, it ain't fire rated. I mean, who the heck is Omega? Sounds like something Liberty just made up (subsidiary) to approve their own safes. Is this company used by any OTHER safe makers to rate their safes, besides Liberty? I just ain't buyin' it.

February 16, 2006, 11:41 PM	#5
HummerGuyInFL Junior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Posts: 3	FF, several other safe manufactures use Omega, including the Browning safe BigV posted. They are an independent testing company, here's their website; http://www.intertek-etlsemko.com/por...ma=CUST_PORTAL

February 17, 2006, 04:45 PM	#12
rapier144 Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Location: tennessee Posts: 686	I didn't mention liberty safe go back and read what i said i was talking about the safe i looked at. __________________ Scan and Breathe Scan and Breathe Stupidity should hurt

February 17, 2006, 04:53 PM	#13
rapier144 Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Location: tennessee Posts: 686	Liberty safe use an outer shell of 10 gauge high carbon steel which isn't 3/16 thick i call that sheet metal. Unless i'm using the wrong gauge scale. Thats between 1/8th and 9/64ths of an inch or i'm i mistaken? __________________ Scan and Breathe Scan and Breathe Stupidity should hurt

February 17, 2006, 04:59 PM	#14
rapier144 Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Location: tennessee Posts: 686	Unless you're talking the top of the line safe from liberty __________________ Scan and Breathe Scan and Breathe Stupidity should hurt

February 17, 2006, 05:27 PM	#16
rapier144 Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Location: tennessee Posts: 686	Not a problem 625 i realize i was vague on which safe i was referring to. I was trying to make a point that even though a door my seem very strudy in fact it's an illusion. Its not really 2" solid. I was just shocked when i saw the inside of the door. Made me realize that all safe aren't equal. __________________ Scan and Breathe Scan and Breathe Stupidity should hurt

February 17, 2006, 05:55 PM	#17
HummerGuyInFL Junior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Posts: 3	a1abdj, out of curiosity, why is the Amsec (say HF 6040) that much better than a Liberty Lincoln? It appears to be in almost the same price range as the Liberty Lincoln 35 I was looking at. I notice the Amsec uses a proprietary fire insulation as opposed to Liberty's Sheet Rock but both safes use 10 gauge steel for the outer shell.

February 17, 2006, 08:52 PM	#19
Ken O Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Half way between Grayling and Cadillac, Michigan Posts: 353	I'm not going to recommend a brand, do some searches and find out some of the finer points. One big suggestion: When I bought my safe many years ago, I found several that were using drywall for their fire protection and charging hundreds of dollars more, they use their brand recognition and people blindly bought them. If you want fire protection find a manufacture that uses Kaowool or generic type of ceramic wool. This stuff is used in powerhouse boilers, steel mills and refinery furnaces and works very well. I found several that used it, and it wont cost any more then the (shudder) drywall. That said, I'm not sure anything will save your rifes if your house burns down, just dont pay a couple hundred dollars for a sheet or two of drywall.

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