Should I be concerned?

fsfty · November 21, 2012, 11:11 PM

I bought a s&w 686 and LOVE it. I'm a newb, and only have 100 rounds thru it but now know im a revolver guy. I want to get a M36, but I'm now reading about problems with the internal lock. Should this dissuade me from getting another s&w? Sorry if this a question answered before.

Edward429451 · November 21, 2012, 11:15 PM

Look around for a good pre-lock version is what I'd do.

fsfty · November 21, 2012, 11:30 PM

Is this an issue I should be concerned about?

Flint Ridge · November 21, 2012, 11:40 PM

Some say it is an issue. Low probability, but if it does inadvertantly lock on you, that will be bad. You can delete the lock with "the plug" over on the smith forum.

But, I'd look for a good used one without the lock, most times you get a better revolver cheaper that way.

jackpine · November 21, 2012, 11:52 PM

I have only seen problems in light wieght models shot with heavy recoil rounds and lots of them so unless your dirty harry Jr. you should be O.K.

James K · November 21, 2012, 11:54 PM

FWIW, S&W changed the lock mechanism so that the newer guns cannot go into the lock mode from recoil, if they ever really could. I say that because some people who claimed the guns would inadventently lock up had a personal hatred and agenda against S&W over its "surrender" to the Clinton administration, and told what can, with great charity, be described as untruths about the company and all its products. (I never had one lock up and never personally knew of one that did.)

I wouldn't worry, but as the others note, there are plenty of pre-lock Model 36's around and I have seen shops with several for sale.

Jim

Kreyzhorse · November 22, 2012, 06:56 AM

Problems with the lock are greatly exaggerated. Most do find them distasteful, but if you don't mind them, you will likely never never have a problem with them.

For the record, I own a S&W 637 and have never had an issue with the lock. Buy your gun and don't worry about it.

CajunBass · November 22, 2012, 07:31 AM

I would worry almost as much about being hit by a steamship while crossing the road, than I would a Smith & Wesson, "locking itself."

I don't even find the "hole" any less attractive than any other pin or screw in the side of the gun. I doubt I would have even noticed it except for having heard about it here and on other gun forums.

fsfty · November 22, 2012, 08:55 AM

Thanks for the replies and putting my concerns to rest. M36 will be on the way.

DFrame · November 22, 2012, 05:18 PM

I can't say I'm thrilled with the Lawyer locks. But after several thousand rounds of 44 special through my model 21, it doesn't concern me anymore. Some of the crying is just sour grapes "They don't make them like they used to". No they don't. Modern manufacturing and price point just don't allow them to.
It's a competetive maket and they HAVE to find new ways of doing things. If you want a model 36 My first choice would be to find a used early one, but if I couldn't find it I'd buy a later one and not worry about it.

skidder · November 22, 2012, 06:13 PM

I would always choose a pre-lock over a lock. Common sense tells me not to drill a hole in the side of a perfectly fine revolver. Especially in such a critical area. Maybe I'm wrong? Well.... if I am? Thanks to S&W I know exactly where to place the bit of my Black and Decker.

Hook686 · November 22, 2012, 09:07 PM

I have never seen personally, nor had it happen to one of my three S&W revolvers. I think the lockup due to the internal lock is more an illusion than a reality, though there are those that maintain they have either experienced it, or observed it happen. I certainly do not worry about it.

orionengnr · November 22, 2012, 10:05 PM

You can either buy one without the lock, or you can disable it easily.

The only ILS S&W I currently own (M25-13 Mountain Gun in .45LC) had the lock removed before I bought it. That was one of the reasons I bought it...okay, the price was right, too.

Those itty bitty pieces are in a small zip-lock bag in my safe...and that is where they will stay.

S&W has begun to offer some of it's previous ILS-only models without the ILS (642 and perhaps 638?). As soon as they bring back the no-lock 342, I will jump on that. If they don't, perhaps one day I will buy a no-lock 642.

Quote:

S&W changed the lock mechanism so that the newer guns cannot go into the lock mode from recoil, if they ever really could.

And yes, they could...and did. Not all that frequently, but even once is way too many times. It's a bone-headed idea.

dahermit · November 23, 2012, 10:58 AM

[QUOTE]...some people who claimed the guns would inadventently lock up had a personal hatred and agenda against S&W over its "surrender" to the Clinton administration, and told what can, with great charity, be described as untruths about the company and all its products.[QUOTE]A wild statement like that begs for a request that you provide a link to evidence/data that proves that is true. How could you actually claim that people did that, without subjecting them to polygraph tests?

Mystro · November 23, 2012, 01:08 PM

This "lock" issue is typical keyboard commando hysteria. I own new and old S&W and I can tell you the new ones are stronger and built just as good. Steel is better and manufacturing tolerances are light years ahead of what they were just 15 years ago. The newer guns bring more advantages than disadvantages compared to older models. Nostalgia is what really drives the topic.

Obambulate · November 23, 2012, 04:36 PM

I would consider an older M36 to be a good choice, too. Plenty of them around so clean examples are out there for $400 or less.

bronicadave · November 23, 2012, 04:43 PM

Everyone talks about the problems with the internal lock, but I have never actually heard from someone who had the problem himself. Every post I have read on forums or person I talked to in person always knew someone who had a friend at his gun club who had the problem or some such connection. I think it was all hysteria. I have three 357 magnums and a 44 magnum with the lock and have not had any problems despite the size of the gun or the loads.

pete2 · November 23, 2012, 08:57 PM

I own 3 revolvers with locks, I prefer guns without the locks but I've never had one to lock up. One is a 642 and I've shot it enough that I trust it. One is a 625 that has had about 8000 rounds thru it with out a hick up. The fit and finish on the older guns is why I like them better.

Webleymkv · November 23, 2012, 09:16 PM

No, you need not be concerned. Documented, verifiable cases of "auto lock" are rare enough that they are nearly statistically insignificant. Of the few verified cases, it almost always seems to happen when the revolver is new (I believe that it's a QC rather than design issue) and, once fixed by S&W it almost never reoccurs (S&W has excellent CS). So long a you thoroughly test your revolver for reliability by putting at least a couple hundred rounds through it before relying on it (something you should be doing anyway), you've got little to worry about.

James K · November 23, 2012, 11:14 PM

Dahermit, if you haven't seen any of what I can only describe as insane ranting about the locks and the "sell out", you have not been looking very hard. Some were genuine concern, but some people made threats against S&W that went beyond boycotts and technical discussion.

On a personal note, I once pointed out that a claimed lock condition was physically impossible and was told that the poster knew where I lived and was coming to kill me. I did think that was a bit extreme, but not atypical of the anti-S&W folks.

Jim

jhenry · November 23, 2012, 11:27 PM

There are so many nice Smith and Wessons out there without that silly dingus that I can hardly think it will ever be an issue for me.

November 21, 2012, 11:11 PM	#1
fsfty Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 201	Should I be concerned? I bought a s&w 686 and LOVE it. I'm a newb, and only have 100 rounds thru it but now know im a revolver guy. I want to get a M36, but I'm now reading about problems with the internal lock. Should this dissuade me from getting another s&w? Sorry if this a question answered before.

November 22, 2012, 06:56 AM	#7
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	Problems with the lock are greatly exaggerated. Most do find them distasteful, but if you don't mind them, you will likely never never have a problem with them. For the record, I own a S&W 637 and have never had an issue with the lock. Buy your gun and don't worry about it. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

November 22, 2012, 07:31 AM	#8
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	I would worry almost as much about being hit by a steamship while crossing the road, than I would a Smith & Wesson, "locking itself." I don't even find the "hole" any less attractive than any other pin or screw in the side of the gun. I doubt I would have even noticed it except for having heard about it here and on other gun forums. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

November 22, 2012, 05:18 PM	#10
DFrame Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Location: central Illinois Posts: 451	I can't say I'm thrilled with the Lawyer locks. But after several thousand rounds of 44 special through my model 21, it doesn't concern me anymore. Some of the crying is just sour grapes "They don't make them like they used to". No they don't. Modern manufacturing and price point just don't allow them to. It's a competetive maket and they HAVE to find new ways of doing things. If you want a model 36 My first choice would be to find a used early one, but if I couldn't find it I'd buy a later one and not worry about it. __________________ Mark Lane to William Buckley: "Have you ever referred to Jessee Jackson as an ignoramus?" Buckley: "If I didn't, I should have"

November 22, 2012, 06:13 PM	#11
skidder Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Location: Montana Posts: 640	I would always choose a pre-lock over a lock. Common sense tells me not to drill a hole in the side of a perfectly fine revolver. Especially in such a critical area. Maybe I'm wrong? Well.... if I am? Thanks to S&W I know exactly where to place the bit of my Black and Decker. __________________ Gun permit?? A bread crumb tossed to a sleeping society awoken by the sound of complacency. "They are for your own good", and "you will understand when you see all the lives they save". Yes master, what else will you toss me from your bag of infringements?? Do you want me to roll over and play dead? I do that very well. --skidder

November 21, 2012, 11:15 PM	#2
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Look around for a good pre-lock version is what I'd do.

November 21, 2012, 11:30 PM	#3
fsfty Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 201	Is this an issue I should be concerned about?

November 21, 2012, 11:40 PM	#4
Flint Ridge Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2009 Location: Flint Ridge, Missouri Posts: 225	Some say it is an issue. Low probability, but if it does inadvertantly lock on you, that will be bad. You can delete the lock with "the plug" over on the smith forum. But, I'd look for a good used one without the lock, most times you get a better revolver cheaper that way.

November 21, 2012, 11:52 PM	#5
jackpine Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Posts: 351	I have only seen problems in light wieght models shot with heavy recoil rounds and lots of them so unless your dirty harry Jr. you should be O.K.

November 21, 2012, 11:54 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, S&W changed the lock mechanism so that the newer guns cannot go into the lock mode from recoil, if they ever really could. I say that because some people who claimed the guns would inadventently lock up had a personal hatred and agenda against S&W over its "surrender" to the Clinton administration, and told what can, with great charity, be described as untruths about the company and all its products. (I never had one lock up and never personally knew of one that did.) I wouldn't worry, but as the others note, there are plenty of pre-lock Model 36's around and I have seen shops with several for sale. Jim

November 22, 2012, 08:55 AM	#9
fsfty Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 201	Thanks for the replies and putting my concerns to rest. M36 will be on the way.

November 22, 2012, 09:07 PM	#12
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	I have never seen personally, nor had it happen to one of my three S&W revolvers. I think the lockup due to the internal lock is more an illusion than a reality, though there are those that maintain they have either experienced it, or observed it happen. I certainly do not worry about it. __________________ Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.

November 23, 2012, 10:58 AM	#14
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	[QUOTE]...some people who claimed the guns would inadventently lock up had a personal hatred and agenda against S&W over its "surrender" to the Clinton administration, and told what can, with great charity, be described as untruths about the company and all its products.[QUOTE]A wild statement like that begs for a request that you provide a link to evidence/data that proves that is true. How could you actually claim that people did that, without subjecting them to polygraph tests?

November 23, 2012, 01:08 PM	#15
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	This "lock" issue is typical keyboard commando hysteria. I own new and old S&W and I can tell you the new ones are stronger and built just as good. Steel is better and manufacturing tolerances are light years ahead of what they were just 15 years ago. The newer guns bring more advantages than disadvantages compared to older models. Nostalgia is what really drives the topic.

November 23, 2012, 04:36 PM	#16
Obambulate Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2011 Posts: 582	I would consider an older M36 to be a good choice, too. Plenty of them around so clean examples are out there for $400 or less.

November 23, 2012, 04:43 PM	#17
bronicadave Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2005 Location: Minneapolis MN Posts: 133	Everyone talks about the problems with the internal lock, but I have never actually heard from someone who had the problem himself. Every post I have read on forums or person I talked to in person always knew someone who had a friend at his gun club who had the problem or some such connection. I think it was all hysteria. I have three 357 magnums and a 44 magnum with the lock and have not had any problems despite the size of the gun or the loads.

November 23, 2012, 08:57 PM	#18
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I own 3 revolvers with locks, I prefer guns without the locks but I've never had one to lock up. One is a 642 and I've shot it enough that I trust it. One is a 625 that has had about 8000 rounds thru it with out a hick up. The fit and finish on the older guns is why I like them better.

November 23, 2012, 09:16 PM	#19
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	No, you need not be concerned. Documented, verifiable cases of "auto lock" are rare enough that they are nearly statistically insignificant. Of the few verified cases, it almost always seems to happen when the revolver is new (I believe that it's a QC rather than design issue) and, once fixed by S&W it almost never reoccurs (S&W has excellent CS). So long a you thoroughly test your revolver for reliability by putting at least a couple hundred rounds through it before relying on it (something you should be doing anyway), you've got little to worry about.

November 23, 2012, 11:14 PM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Dahermit, if you haven't seen any of what I can only describe as insane ranting about the locks and the "sell out", you have not been looking very hard. Some were genuine concern, but some people made threats against S&W that went beyond boycotts and technical discussion. On a personal note, I once pointed out that a claimed lock condition was physically impossible and was told that the poster knew where I lived and was coming to kill me. I did think that was a bit extreme, but not atypical of the anti-S&W folks. Jim

November 23, 2012, 11:27 PM	#21
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	There are so many nice Smith and Wessons out there without that silly dingus that I can hardly think it will ever be an issue for me. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer