Best AR general purpose caliber?

[bamaranger]

If you were going to assemble a standard action AR 15 size carbine as a general purpose rifle, one you could hunt varmints and medium game, compete in a bit of 3 gun or practical rifle to say 300 yds or so, and also serve as a self defense weapon, ...one carbine....set up anyway you wanted........ in what cartridge would you chamber it?

No wrong answer, but explanation as to your choice is desired. I'm thinking 6.5 Grendel myself. Sufficient bullet weight for whitetail and hogs, mild shooting, flat trajectory and commercially available as well (not a requirement but desireable).

[stagpanther]

Still can't beat a general purpose 5.56/.223 Wylde IMO. I know you asked for explanation--it fits all your criteria plus is very reliable and manageable. I'm not going into the game-taking thing other than to say it can be done.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by bamaranger

If you were going to assemble a standard action AR 15 size carbine as a general purpose rifle, one you could hunt varmints and medium game, compete in a bit of 3 gun or practical rifle to say 300 yds or so, and also serve as a self defense weapon, ...one carbine....set up anyway you wanted........ in what cartridge would you chamber it?

No wrong answer, but explanation as to your choice is desired. I'm thinking 6.5 Grendel myself. Sufficient bullet weight for whitetail and hogs, mild shooting, flat trajectory and commercially available as well (not a requirement but desireable).

I think you’ve already nailed it. But, of the calibers that I load for I’d grab my 7.62x39. For me it would work because even though people don’t think of it as a 300yd round with my loads I’ve been able to pop clays at about a 50% rate at 300 yds. When the Mini 30 first came out I bought one and hunted large northern deer with it for twelve years and shot deer out to 200+ yds and never had one run more than 50yds before dropping dead.

[Shadow9mm]

5.56/223 wylde is going to be as general purpose as your going to get. Unless you have some sort of limitations that does ot allow you to use 5.56/223 wylde for hunting. But with good bullet selection its plenty capable for deer/hogs out to 300. Also parts, ammunition, and or reloading components will be cheaper and more readily available for 5.56

[mehavey]

- standard action AR 15
- general purpose rifle
- varmints and medium gam
- say 300 yds or so
- also serve as a self defense weapon

6.5 Grendel

[ocharry]

i too have a 6.5 grendel....and a 223 wyld and one chambered in 556..that being said

here in Missouri the 22's can be used for deer 223/556,22-250 and others i guess...i dont personally think it is a deer round but in the right hands it can get it done

223/556 is very common and coming down in price and in SHTF situations common is good...the grendel not so much..i relaod so that isnt a big deal for me personally....but components can be tricky...especially powder and sometimes brass..

anyway.. most times i pick up the grendel when i go out....i built it because i wanted more hammer at little longer range...and its a no brainer inside 200 for deer.....and coyotes...its lights out where they stand...

i think if i would have built the grendel first i prolly wouldnt have built the 223 wyld since i already had a 556...but hey the twins dont mind sitting next to each other

so i kinda agree with stag and mehavey...leaning heavy towards mehavey..lol

my .02

ocharry

[MarkCO]

Agree with the .223/5.56 in general for Southern South and East states with Whitetails.

If you are in the Western states, you generally need 6mm for Deer. In that case, a 6x45 would be my suggestion. Maybe the .350L or .400L after a few years of seeing how they fare.

The 6.5G and 6.8 don't use standard .223 bolts nor mags. Cost goes up, reliability goes down.

[stagpanther]

The 6.5G and 6.8 don't use standard .223 bolts nor mags. Cost goes up, reliability goes down.

Agreed--of the two I'd take 6.8 spc--tougher brass and bolt head and more reliable in an AR. If longer range target shooting is of primary importance--then I'd consider putting 6.5 grendel at the head of the line. But then a bunch of 6mm BR-like cartridges become an option as well. I live in Maine. Our deer are pretty big.

[Steve in Allentown,]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

Agreed--of the two I'd take 6.8 spc . . .

I agree with my fellow Maine-iac. The 6.8 has more oomph in a standard AR size receiver than a .223 and is optimized for short barrels. Commonly available bulk .223 ammo retains less than 1000 ft lbs of energy at 100 yards while 6.8 factory ammo is knocking on the door of 1000 ft lbs of retained energy at 300 yards and can easily/safely exceed it through hand loading your own ammo.

My 6.8 has an 18" barrel and is scary accurate. It'll put 10 rounds of cheap factory ammo into a half inch group at 100 yards all day long. I've got to get into working up some loads for it one of these days.

Here's a ballistics comparison between the Grendel and the 6.8. I've long since forgotten where it came from.

If I were still wearing the uniform or hunting anything smaller than an elk, the 6.8 would be my go-to rifle.

If I were living in an urban environment and concerned about the possibility of unrest, I'd go with the .223.

If I were looking to shoot small groups at extended ranges using a standard size AR receiver, I'd use one flavor or another of a .223 or 6mm projectile in a case with more capacity than the standard .223 case.

[MarkCO]

Our deer are pretty big.

In my defense, I did say

Southern South and East states with Whitetails

I'd be fine with the 6.8 for bigger Northern Deer.

I chose the 6.5 PCC (Patriot Combat Cartridge) as it lets me be legal for Deer and Pronghorn in the Western States, and I happen to really like the 95 to 107 grain 6.5 bullets. But it is strictly wildcat. While you can get a barrel and dies, you have to make your own brass.

[stagpanther]

I chose the 6.5 PCC (Patriot Combat Cartridge) as it lets me be legal for Deer and Pronghorn in the Western States, and I happen to really like the 95 to 107 grain 6.5 bullets. But it is strictly wildcat. While you can get a barrel and dies, you have to make your own brass.

I had to look that up--never even heard of the 6.5 PCC (almost sounds like PPC). Pretty interesting, but just glancing at the numbers quickly I'd guess you have to be very aware of what you're shooting at and at what distance.

[603Country]

After having problems dropping big hogs with the 223, I went to the 6.5 Grendel. The hogs drop now. It was a tossup between the 6.8 and 6.5, but I had the bullets and powders for the 6.5 G. I might deer hunt with it this next season, but it has just been pig medicine so far.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

I had to look that up--never even heard of the 6.5 PCC (almost sounds like PPC). Pretty interesting, but just glancing at the numbers quickly I'd guess you have to be very aware of what you're shooting at and at what distance.

There might be 50 or so in the wild. I get 2700 fps with the 95g and 2500 with the 107 grain. It lags the 6.5G by about 100 fps or so with the lighter bullets. But 120g is about the limit, and 2400 fps.

[bamaranger]

This would make a good thread with a "pick one" chart. Ho 'bout somebody with more tech savy than me starting same?

[Jim Watson]

The problem with "pick one" threads is the tremendous overlap in guns and ammo.
If it lasts long, you will find everything on the market recommended by somebody.

And with an AR, it is too easy and relatively cheap to just get another upper.
I don't like seeing fancy brass thrown in the weeds, so I would be - am - sure to have a .223/5.56 for home defense and moderate range targets.
Something in the broad range of 6mm to .30 for medium game.

[ballardw]

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

I don't like seeing fancy brass thrown in the weeds, so I would be

- sure to have a good brass-catcher.

[Shadow9mm]

Well, I initially commented on this post with just my pick, but I have been thinking over this for a bit now and I have revised my opinion and have some questions and thoughts that may help the conversation.

What criteria are we using, or how do we qualify a general purpose rifle? At what point are the criteria too broad or too compromised to consider it viable?

To me, the criteria that were laid out are these
platform ar15 carbine
hunting varmints
hunting medium game
defensive
competition 3gun and or practical rifle
distance, 300yds

From what I have seen 6.5 Grendel seems to be the favorite cartridge at this point. While I feel it is a good cartridge and an excellent choice based on most of the criteria, I feel that it, and many of the other niche cartridges, would be a huge drawback in the competition space. Ammo/components are uncommon and expensive, and as far as reloading, there is a high probability you wont get most, or any, of your brass back. And leaving a brass catcher on your gun 24/7 because your too afraid of losing your brass does not make for an enjoyable shooting experience and it bad training for defensive use, and would make shooting a competition laughable.

My recommendation is to build 1 nice lower and 2 uppers. Build a 16in defensive/competition upper in 223, and a hunting upper in 6.5 grendel.

I believe my solution, while a bit of a loophole, in fact is still only 1 rifle.

[stagpanther]

What? No votes for the 350 legend??

[ballardw]

I add in a .22LR dedicated upper as well.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by ballardw

I add in a .22LR dedicated upper as well.

The ar really is the ultimate "quick caliber change" gun every manufacturer keeps trying to make. No tools, push 2 pins, swap. Less than 10 seconds.

[603Country]

Shadow9mm’s suggestion of one lower and two uppers (223 and 6.5G) was what I did for a while, and it worked great. It is easy to swap uppers, and I had no problems with buffer and spring with the two calibers. Finally though, I got another lower.

[jmr40]

Overall I'm still going with a 223/5.56 with a barrel twisted that will shoot 70-77 gr bullets.

A 223 wouldn't be my 1st choice as a deer cartridge, but it will do the job if bullets are chosen carefully. And not just small deer. A 75 gr 223 bullet will do anything an 85 gr 243 bullet will do. You will have to limit your shots to under 200 yards and may have to pass on shots from bad angles where a heavier bullet may work.

Lots of folks can't wrap their heads around a 22 caliber bullet killing anything bigger than a coyote. But the difference between a 223 and a 243 is less than 1/2 the thickness of a dime.

My reasoning is based on how often the rifle will be used for each activity. Yes, a larger caliber cartridge is a better deer cartridge. But that will be activity where it is least used. A guy could go through several thousand rounds a year shooting in the other activities and only fire 1-3 shots at deer.

To me it makes more sense to choose the cartridge that works best for the activities where it is used most. 223 is by far the better option for everything else. Especially if cost and availability are factored in.

Of course, the correct answer is 223/5.56 AND a separate upper in a larger cartridge for hunting. The money saved shooting 223/5.56 the majority of the time would quickly pay for the 2nd upper, or even a 2nd rifle.

[taylorce1]

I agree with the .223/5.56 comment being the best utility cartridge for the AR-15. I've killed deer with the .223 55gr TSX, 6X45 85gr SGK, and the 6X47 (6mm-.222 RM) 70gr NBT. Place a bullet where it needs to go and you're eating venison. I've got a buddy who likes the .277 Yeti and 80 gr Gold Dots for deer.

Hogs, I have very little experience with. I do know if your shoot them in the ear, cartridge matters very little. I doubt a hog will survive a well placed .224 diameter bullet of adequate construction.

I've not shot 3-Gun but my understanding is it's a timed competition. .223/5.56 is going to work better for that. Less recoil means you can transition targets faster and makes the rifle handle faster. Just look at PRS as an indicator, the cartridges used have gone smaller as well as the caliber for the reasons I stated above.

[Pistoler0]

Originally Posted by mehavey

6.5 Grendel

+1 on the 6.5 grendel.

I'd like to add:
- long range precision shooting
- cheap steel cased ammo available.
- In fact, CHEAPEST AR rifle ammo apart from 7.62x39 and .223/556:
Per ammoseek: cheapest 6.5G $0.74. cheapest 6.8SPC $1.10 as of 5/11/2023
- versatile and different factory loadings available for hunting.
- relatively easy to find.
- MOST IMPORTANT: legal for big game hunting in many states that do not allow 5.56/223 for big game (CO for instance).
Good for deer out to 400 yards (20" barrel) and even elk inside 125 yards or so.

Depending on barrel and load, a 6.5G can deliver as much energy at 500 yards as a .308 with a lower cost per round:
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/blo...6-and-223.html

But yes, you need a different bolt (although not a different bolt carrier) and mags. Reliability has not been an issue for me, even with cheap steel cased ammo.

If you are going to get two uppers, and you are sensitive to cost of ammo, my recommendation:
1 upper in 7.62x39. Cost of ammo is again down to $0.30/rd or so.
2nd upper in 6.5 Grendel for hunting and precision. Cost of ammo around $0.70 per rd

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

What? No votes for the 350 legend??

Nah, tried it, sold it. The 400L is intriguing. Must resist another experiment.