A Discussion on PCC's.

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Ruger pc carbine. With the magpul backpacker stock, and a replacement hardened steel ejector.

Ruger PC Carbine. Alright I'll jot that down in my notes. Thank you.

[Shadow9mm]

Friend has one, shot it a couple times. Its his around the farm rifle. He can easily hit a possum at 75-100yds. Its a a fair bit quieter than a 223 rifle, but its just as heavy.

Was not a fan of the factory stock. The magpul backpacker stock is much better.

He said the only real issue with the gun is the ejector. If you over insert your mags it will get bent due to being softer steel. Thus the replacement hardened steel ejector.

[jetinteriorguy]

I love PCC’s and right now I’d only consider three, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, or Henry. I’m really liking the Smith, lots of nice features but it’s limited to only M&P style mags, price wise very attractive. The Ruger has a more traditional look and can adapt to a couple of the more common mags and has a solid reputation at a very nice price point. Last is the Henry, it has a very traditional look, pretty new to the market but seems to be working well, notable accuracy, can accommodate a couple different mags, but a little more on the expensive side. I’ve been shooting a Just Right Carbine for quite a few years and it’s been 100% reliable, very versatile in how you set it up, uses AR15 style controls and triggers, and can adapt to a few different mags, but has a couple drawbacks, it’s heavy and doesn’t lock back on an empty mag.

[Houndog]

New to PCC's but have been shooting AR's for years.

Unlike MarkCO I wasn't involved in the design of the Wylde chamber, so I'm going to defer to him. However, my understanding is that they are meant to be slightly more accurate than a conventional chamber when shooting .223. And no real downside. I have a couple of AR's with Wylde chambers and have been very happy with them. As to particular brands, PSA is a good budget suggestion. Radical is also pretty budget friendly and I have one that's been without issue. However, I have seen on some of the forums where others have not been so lucky.

With respect to PCC's, as I said I'm just getting into them. Have a Foxtrot Mike PCC that's already destroyed one trigger. Just put a Geissele in it, so we'll see. I like the AR 9's (PCC that mimic the AR15 layout). But that's probably because I've been shooting AR's for so long. Recently tried a Keltec that someone lent me when my Foxtrot Mike broke. I appreciated the gesture, but hated the gun. Crappy trigger and really bizarre and awkward layout. But then I shoot lefty and it would be hard to imagine a less ambidextrous design.

I have been taking a hard look at the Grand Power Striborg. I have a Grand Power pistol and have been very impressed with the design, trigger, accuracy and reliability. The Striborg seems to be getting pretty good reviews on line, is very similar in design and function to a gun made by B&T that's three times as expensive* and looks like a bargain. I think they run $800, but frequently go on sale. And with the Striborg you have a choice of Gen 1, which is direct blowback, or Gen 3 which is a roller delayed blowback, which should be softer shooting.

* Before some B&T owner jumps on me, I said similar, not identical. There are definitely some differences in the internal operation, and I'm sure the fit and finish on the B&T is superior, but they definitely have a lot of similarities.

[MarkCO]

Have a Foxtrot Mike PCC that's already destroyed one trigger. Just put a Geissele in it, so we'll see.

Blowbacks are hard on triggers. Triggers that have the locking strut between the two trigger pins are preferable. I use POF triggers in mine. The rubber bumpers, locked pins, and overall design lets them live long happy lives in PCCs. Foxtrot Mike, QC10 are my preferred PCC lowers, but I have those in Frontier and KE arms lowers too, no issues at all.

[Houndog]

Thanks for the suggestion Mark. I happened to have a blemished Geissele trigger lying around that I bought on sale. Worked great earlier this week when I test fired the gun, but only put about 50 rounds through it.

I've owned a POF 415, which I liked. Probably a Gen 1. My memory is that it had a pretty nice single stage trigger. Will have to go online to see if I can find a cheap one on sale.

Oh, and having just kind of trashed the Keltec (as a lefty and someone who's used to shooting AR's, it just didn't work for me) I opened up my e-mail to find that www.grabagun.com has them on sale for $379. Going to be tough to find a PCC for less.

[MarkCO]

Oh, and having just kind of trashed the Keltec (as a lefty and someone who's used to shooting AR's, it just didn't work for me) I opened up my e-mail to find that www.grabagun.com has them on sale for $379. Going to be tough to find a PCC for less.

They are certainly reliable. But they do take a bit of getting used to for some. I had two, one set up with a RDS, better trigger, etc. I sold it. Too much for a utility gun IMHO. I have a rubber tube pad on mine, and have the stock in the furthest out position. I can still shoot it as fast, and at least twice as accurately as my most accurate pistol. But it lives, folded up, with some mags, in a roadtrip backpack.

[Houndog]

Yes, and not at all friendly if you shoot lefty. I actually like the Foxtrot Mike, and until about a week ago it ran fine (although I've probably only put 400 rounds through it). Unfortunately, it chose to die 50 rounds into my first Steel Challenge match.

I just wrote AimSurplus, since I bought the gun from them and it came with an upgraded AimSurplus drop in trigger. Going to see if they will repair or replace it.

Also, wondering if you have any experience with Striborg Grand Power PCC's. They've gotten pretty good reviews, mags are proprietary but cheap, it's fully ambidextrous, and I'm kind of intrigued by the design. Similar enough to an AR that there shouldn't be much of a learning curve. And pretty reasonably priced.

I actually have two of their pistols - a 9mm and a .22. They are laid out exactly the same, so I can practice with low recoil, cheap .22 ammo and then easily transition to the 9mm. They have an outstanding trigger, good adjustable sights, are very soft shooting, very accurate, and the 9mm has been 100% reliable. The .22, (like many .22's) is pretty ammo sensitive and needs a slightly hotter round to cycle reliably i.e CCI Mini-mags.

Sorry, kind of gotten off track here, but I appreciate your insights and experience.

[MarkCO]

Also, wondering if you have any experience with Striborg Grand Power PCC's.

Sorry, none at all.

[9x19]

For the past 3 or 4 years, I've used the POF triggers in my 9mm carbines as well, in fact I chose them based on MarkCo's recommendation. They have been problem free for me.

[rock185]

Though I've never been the greatest fan of AR type rifles, I've owned and/or operated a few. I've had personally owned Colt and Ruger ARs, and had the use of a S&W AR and M16A1 Colts. Couple years ago I acquired a Ruger AR-556 that is in your price range. I guess the Ruger is considered an entry level rifle to true AR aficionados but thus far, never a malfunction and no complaints.

As to PCCs, I've only owned a lever action .44 Mag., and more than one of the little Marlin Camp 9s over the years. I only shoot them out to a hundred yards or so, but they just work with whatever ammo I can stuff into them. In the 9, that includes 65-158 grain weights, RN Ball, FP Ball, JHPs, standard pressure, NATO, +P, etc. Were I looking at current production 9mm PCCs, I'd sure consider the Ruger, and new Henry PCC..

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by rock185

Though I've never been the greatest fan of AR type rifles, I've owned and/or operated a few. I've had personally owned Colt and Ruger ARs, and had the use of a S&W AR and M16A1 Colts. Couple years ago I acquired a Ruger AR-556 that is in your price range. I guess the Ruger is considered an entry level rifle to true AR aficionados but thus far, never a malfunction and no complaints.

As to PCCs, I've only owned a lever action .44 Mag., and more than one of the little Marlin Camp 9s over the years. I only shoot them out to a hundred yards or so, but they just work with whatever ammo I can stuff into them. In the 9, that includes 65-158 grain weights, RN Ball, FP Ball, JHPs, standard pressure, NATO, +P, etc. Were I looking at current production 9mm PCCs, I'd sure consider the Ruger, and new Henry PCC..

Awesome, thank you for your help. I'll see about a Marlin Camp 9 and if there's any in my area.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by Rojack79

Awesome, thank you for your help. I'll see about a Marlin Camp 9 and if there's any in my area.

Break out your checkbook. They are sporty in the price realm. I had one, and I sold it for a Colt Mag AR pattern, which I also sold. They take a S&W 59 mag, which are not all that reliable. They are plentiful though, and about $30 a pop.

All of mine are now Glock Mag fed, but I will get the New M&P at some point if they prove reliable since I have a bucket of M&P 9mm mags.

My source from Ruger tells me that it is a very good possibility that the Camp 45 could see a comeback from Marlin. I'll hope.

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

Break out your checkbook. They are sporty in the price realm. I had one, and I sold it for a Colt Mag AR pattern, which I also sold. They take a S&W 59 mag, which are not all that reliable. They are plentiful though, and about $30 a pop.

All of mine are now Glock Mag fed, but I will get the New M&P at some point if they prove reliable since I have a bucket of M&P 9mm mags.

My source from Ruger tells me that it is a very good possibility that the Camp 45 could see a comeback from Marlin. I'll hope.

Ahhh, ok. Hmm if that's the case I'll see about waiting a little bit then. Can't be too careful, especially with my hunting for a new job. If I play my cards right I should have one by next month! Here's hoping honestly.

[taylorce1]

A Camp .45 would be awesome!

[ballardw]

FWIW, all my PCC (not considering .22LR) have levers.

Rifle caliber "pistols", that's a different story...

[shootingblanks00]

I have a Hi-Point 995 in 9mm that shoots my reloads quite well.

[44caliberkid]

You could buy a 5.56 AR, then buy a 9mm upper and Colt style magazine adapter, a Colt style 9mm magazine, and shoot both. Swapping from one to the other would just take a few minutes.

[9x19]

If you go ^^that route^^, don't forget a 9mm buffer, the standard AR buffer is much too light.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by 9x19

If you go ^^that route^^, don't forget a 9mm buffer, the standard AR buffer is much too light.

While I prefer the Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffers for blowback PCCs, you can safely use one of the heavier bolts and a JP XP flatwire spring with a standard AR buffer. In fact, some of the "weighted" bolts, the weight can be changed to tune the cycle speed. I find it better to have more weight in the bolt than to put some in the buffer, for long term durability.

[44caliberkid]

Maxim Defense showed a roller delayed buffer for blow back operated ARs at the NRA show. Looks similar to a JP captured spring buffer and is just a drop in. They didn’t say when it would be available.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by 44caliberkid

Maxim Defense showed a roller delayed buffer for blow back operated ARs at the NRA show. Looks similar to a JP captured spring buffer and is just a drop in. They didn’t say when it would be available.

Hmm, that is interesting. Could possibly be used for .40 and 10mm if done correctly. If I was Maxim, I'd rename it and patent it if it really works.

[smee78]

A Marlin Camp 45 reintroduction would be so sweet.....I wonder if it will take 1911 mags like the original or a Glock mag lol?

[YankeeIronSights]

Like others have mentioned, buy an AR in 556/223 caliber first. Every gun collection is incomplete without one.

Then save for a Kalashnikof K9 (9mm). Although it uses proprietary mags, it is a blast at the range. Reliable, accurate, easy to operate and maintain.

The list price is a bit over a $1,000.00 but I am sure that you can shop and buy a used one for under that amount.

Go to the manufacturer's website and check the product line. They also offer many cool accessories for this model.

https://kalashnikov-usa.com/shop/products/firearms/

I have owned a variety of PCCs over the years and the K9 has become my favorite. If you live in a free state, the 30 round mags will make you smile at the range. Fun to shoot with very very little recoil.

Check the YouTube video:

https://youtu.be/PWj1xjzvhrc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by smee78

A Marlin Camp 45 reintroduction would be so sweet.....I wonder if it will take 1911 mags like the original or a Glock mag lol?

It's just a possibility. But my contact at Ruger is pretty high up the food chain. It better take 1911 mags if they make it.