1892 Winchester liner

Deltadart · April 1, 2023, 09:00 AM

I have an 1892 Winchester in .25-20 WCF which I think is a candidate for a liner. There is still rifling visible, although it is eroded after 107 years. Jacketed bullets still make round holes in a target at 100, but a few rounds of cast, preferred bullet, and the barrel is very difficult to clean. Since the rifle has been refinished, which is a very good job, a liner does not hurt the value, and I am shooter not collector. Can a liner be installed so that the muzzle does not show the ring joint of the liner, such as a silver solder filler being used? Does anyone have a recommendation for a gunsmith that does this type of work?

HiBC · April 1, 2023, 12:56 PM

Critical to cast bullet performance is bullet to bore fit. General rule, .001 over groove dia will work. What you don't want is gas leakage. Gas jetting past your bullet will create lead fouling.
If the bore is worn a bit,the nominal .257 (or whatever) bullets may allow some blowby.
It might be a bullet .001 or .002 larger would work.

A friend used to reline a few rifles. (No,he's not an option) He'd drill from the breech end and pay close attention as the drill emerged from the muzzle.
He'd leave a short ring of tight steel at the muzzle .Just a little taper of snug fit on the liner. There was no visible gap when he was done.
I have not soldered one in. I'm not the guy to tell you how. I know for 22 LR liners and BP .32's he used Accra glass.

PAdutchman · April 7, 2023, 09:39 AM

I have a 1906 manufactured Winchester 1892 that is in 32-20. When I purchased it about 7-8 years ago the bore was pretty bad. Anything I fired through it keyholed with groups about 8-10" at 25 yards. I sent the barrel & action out to Redman's Riflings & Reboring in WA to have a liner installed. When I got it back it shot like a new rifle with around 2-3" groups at 50 yards with iron sights, which is good for me. You can't see any liner ring around the muzzle either. I wouldn't have any hesitation to have another rifle relined by them. Good luck!

Jim Watson · April 7, 2023, 10:34 AM

Redman is good, if he catches up enough to take your order.
My '92 started out as a .38-40, poorly rebored to .44-40. I had him reline it to .44 instead of the original .38 because I already had dies, brass, and a .44 Colt for CAS.

I bet John Taylor could do it.

The way to avoid a ring at the muzzle is to ream the barrel and bevel the liner so the seam is buried in the crown cut.

Deltadart · April 7, 2023, 07:27 PM

Thanks for the information. I spoke with folks at Redmans and they will not be doing any work other than suppling the liners for smiths.

**Mike Irwin** · April 8, 2023, 10:41 AM

Have you thought about having it rebored to .32-20?

Deltadart · April 8, 2023, 11:11 AM

Not a bad idea Mike, however I have .25-20 dies,M-Pmolds, brass, by and gas checks for the .25-20. .32-20 supplies are as bad or as difficult to find as the .25. The gas checks have helped with reducing the leading some. However, I think just putting a liner in by a quality shop will be the way to go. That way I will have an excuse to buy a 1892 in .32-20 a little later.

**Mike Irwin** · April 8, 2023, 07:21 PM

" .32-20 supplies are as bad as dfficult to find as the .25. "

I'm fortunately set up to load for .32-20. I have two revolvers -- a Smith & a Colt -- in that cartridge.

I never bothered to get set up to load for .25-20 even though I have a Savage 23B. I did load some for it when I was able to use the dies at American Rifleman's offices when I was on staff there.

I've been trying to find a 23C in .32-20 for some years, but I've always been either a day late or a bunch of dollars short.

Deltadart · April 8, 2023, 08:21 PM

Mike, I am have some success converting the 7.62 Nagant cartridge brass to .25-20 WCF. Not an easy process, but it does work, sorta. I first have to go to the .32-20 then down to the .25-20. I do hope one day to have a 92 in .32-20. I hope that the US will return to normal one day and make this much easier.

April 1, 2023, 09:00 AM	#1
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 256	1892 Winchester liner I have an 1892 Winchester in .25-20 WCF which I think is a candidate for a liner. There is still rifling visible, although it is eroded after 107 years. Jacketed bullets still make round holes in a target at 100, but a few rounds of cast, preferred bullet, and the barrel is very difficult to clean. Since the rifle has been refinished, which is a very good job, a liner does not hurt the value, and I am shooter not collector. Can a liner be installed so that the muzzle does not show the ring joint of the liner, such as a silver solder filler being used? Does anyone have a recommendation for a gunsmith that does this type of work?

April 8, 2023, 10:41 AM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,269	Have you thought about having it rebored to .32-20? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 8, 2023, 11:11 AM	#7
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 256	Not a bad idea Mike, however I have .25-20 dies,M-Pmolds, brass, by and gas checks for the .25-20. .32-20 supplies are as bad or as difficult to find as the .25. The gas checks have helped with reducing the leading some. However, I think just putting a liner in by a quality shop will be the way to go. That way I will have an excuse to buy a 1892 in .32-20 a little later. Last edited by Deltadart; April 8, 2023 at 08:15 PM.

April 8, 2023, 07:21 PM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,269	" .32-20 supplies are as bad as dfficult to find as the .25. " I'm fortunately set up to load for .32-20. I have two revolvers -- a Smith & a Colt -- in that cartridge. I never bothered to get set up to load for .25-20 even though I have a Savage 23B. I did load some for it when I was able to use the dies at American Rifleman's offices when I was on staff there. I've been trying to find a 23C in .32-20 for some years, but I've always been either a day late or a bunch of dollars short. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

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April 1, 2023, 12:56 PM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,184	Critical to cast bullet performance is bullet to bore fit. General rule, .001 over groove dia will work. What you don't want is gas leakage. Gas jetting past your bullet will create lead fouling. If the bore is worn a bit,the nominal .257 (or whatever) bullets may allow some blowby. It might be a bullet .001 or .002 larger would work. A friend used to reline a few rifles. (No,he's not an option) He'd drill from the breech end and pay close attention as the drill emerged from the muzzle. He'd leave a short ring of tight steel at the muzzle .Just a little taper of snug fit on the liner. There was no visible gap when he was done. I have not soldered one in. I'm not the guy to tell you how. I know for 22 LR liners and BP .32's he used Accra glass.

April 7, 2023, 09:39 AM	#3
PAdutchman Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Posts: 42	I have a 1906 manufactured Winchester 1892 that is in 32-20. When I purchased it about 7-8 years ago the bore was pretty bad. Anything I fired through it keyholed with groups about 8-10" at 25 yards. I sent the barrel & action out to Redman's Riflings & Reboring in WA to have a liner installed. When I got it back it shot like a new rifle with around 2-3" groups at 50 yards with iron sights, which is good for me. You can't see any liner ring around the muzzle either. I wouldn't have any hesitation to have another rifle relined by them. Good luck!

April 7, 2023, 10:34 AM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,300	Redman is good, if he catches up enough to take your order. My '92 started out as a .38-40, poorly rebored to .44-40. I had him reline it to .44 instead of the original .38 because I already had dies, brass, and a .44 Colt for CAS. I bet John Taylor could do it. The way to avoid a ring at the muzzle is to ream the barrel and bevel the liner so the seam is buried in the crown cut.

April 7, 2023, 07:27 PM	#5
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 256	Thanks for the information. I spoke with folks at Redmans and they will not be doing any work other than suppling the liners for smiths.

April 8, 2023, 08:21 PM	#9
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 256	Mike, I am have some success converting the 7.62 Nagant cartridge brass to .25-20 WCF. Not an easy process, but it does work, sorta. I first have to go to the .32-20 then down to the .25-20. I do hope one day to have a 92 in .32-20. I hope that the US will return to normal one day and make this much easier.