Help dating old UMC cartridge box

Wobble · February 8, 2010, 09:23 PM

I recently acquired an old UMC .44-40 cartridge box (see attached photos). Can anyone help date it?

I know UMC started offering this cartridge shortly after Winchester came out with the Model 1873. But I suspect this one is newer because of the references to Marlin, Savage, Remington, and Stevens on the bottom.

30-30remchester · February 8, 2010, 09:30 PM

If you will post these photos and question to the International Ammunition Assoc. forum they are quite knowledgable.

Wobble · February 9, 2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

If you will post these photos and question to the International Ammunition Assoc. forum they are quite knowledgable.

Thanks. That's just what I have done. If I get an answer, I'll post it back here just to complete the thread for future readers.

Savvy_Jack · October 13, 2021, 07:55 AM

Any chance you still have this box? On the bottom, left side and upside down, it looks like there is an ink stamp code.

**Mike Irwin** · October 14, 2021, 08:58 AM

This was posted over a decade ago, and the OP hasn't been on in a decade, so no real sense in reviving it, but it is interesting, so there we are.

The box is definitely pre-1912, which is when Remington Arms purchased UMC.

The mention of Savage rifles is somewhat odd... I THINK that the Model 1892 was designed in .44-40, but it was never marketed and only a few examples were manufactured by Colt, but that would date the box to post 1892, with Savage as a manufacturer being established in 1894-95.

My guess, given that central-fire is hypenated, is that this box was first decade of the 20th century.

Savvy_Jack · November 5, 2021, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Irwin

The box is definitely pre-1912, which is when Remington Arms purchased UMC.

The mention of Savage rifles is somewhat odd... I THINK that the Model 1892 was designed in .44-40, but it was never marketed and only a few examples were manufactured by Colt, but that would date the box to post 1892, with Savage as a manufacturer being established in 1894-95.

My guess, given that central-fire is hypenated, is that this box was first decade of the 20th century.

Since you mentioned it.......

Yes, I am gathering date information for here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1860800684

**Mike Irwin** · November 5, 2021, 07:09 PM

Nice work pulling that information together!

Your spreadsheet matches up pretty good with my estimate. That color box label matches with what you have listed as being 1895 or later.

Is there any way that a viewer can expand the pictures?

The work you've done with .44-40 helps me nail down the dates for some boxes I have for other cartridges, including several red boxes of Winchester .44 Special

February 8, 2010, 09:23 PM	#1
Wobble Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Georgia USA Posts: 163	Help dating old UMC cartridge box I recently acquired an old UMC .44-40 cartridge box (see attached photos). Can anyone help date it? I know UMC started offering this cartridge shortly after Winchester came out with the Model 1873. But I suspect this one is newer because of the references to Marlin, Savage, Remington, and Stevens on the bottom.

October 13, 2021, 07:55 AM	#4
Savvy_Jack Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2018 Posts: 217	Any chance you still have this box? On the bottom, left side and upside down, it looks like there is an ink stamp code. __________________ https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester

October 14, 2021, 08:58 AM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,269	This was posted over a decade ago, and the OP hasn't been on in a decade, so no real sense in reviving it, but it is interesting, so there we are. The box is definitely pre-1912, which is when Remington Arms purchased UMC. The mention of Savage rifles is somewhat odd... I THINK that the Model 1892 was designed in .44-40, but it was never marketed and only a few examples were manufactured by Colt, but that would date the box to post 1892, with Savage as a manufacturer being established in 1894-95. My guess, given that central-fire is hypenated, is that this box was first decade of the 20th century. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 5, 2021, 07:09 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,269	Nice work pulling that information together! Your spreadsheet matches up pretty good with my estimate. That color box label matches with what you have listed as being 1895 or later. Is there any way that a viewer can expand the pictures? The work you've done with .44-40 helps me nail down the dates for some boxes I have for other cartridges, including several red boxes of Winchester .44 Special __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

February 8, 2010, 09:30 PM	#2
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	If you will post these photos and question to the International Ammunition Assoc. forum they are quite knowledgable.