.357 for whitetail

[nossaw]

I am searching for a whitetail rifle to learn to hunt with. I currently have a Mossberg 500, but at $3 (plus the recoil) per slug, I want to get a rifle. I live in Indiana, so here are the DNR rifle requirements:

Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger, have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches, and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antlerless seasons. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .500 S&W, .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf. Full metal jacketed bullets are illegal.

So I am looking for economical, and easy to find ammo as I don't have the equipment for, or anyone to teach me how to reload. Due to this, low recoil abd being able to plink with cheaper .38, I'm leaning toward .357 mag.

As far as new rifles in said caliber, I'm split between a Rossi 92 20" blued (the 20 over the 16 due to the feel in MY hands) and a Ruger 77/357 stainless/synthetic. I like both equally but have had the chance to fire neither, but at $150 cheaper, the Rossi is more appealing. Pros and cons?

I know that this may seem that my mind has been made, but until I plunk down my hard earned cash, I'm still open to advice from those who have more knowledge and experience than I. Is my choice of calibers and models on point, or am I overlooking anything?

I apologize if this has been done before, but if it has, I couldn't find it.

[Model12Win]

A hot .357 magnum out of a rifle barrel is one wicked mother. Plenty o' thump for white tails with 158-180 grain soft tips. You'll get WAY more power than shooting the same rounds out of a handgun. And, you can shoot .38s in it on the cheap.

Of the two rifles, I'd save up and get the Ruger bolt gun. HELLA accurate, and hits like a brick out house on fire with Buffalo Bore magnum rounds.

[NoSecondBest]

I've killed over fifty deer with the .357mag in a handgun and seven or eight with a .357mag rifle. The rifle was a Marlin lever gun. A good friend of mine has the Rossi and it shoots very, very well. He actually has two and they both shoot good. One is a round barrel model and the other is an octagon. You'll probably find that the shorter .38Spl won't shoot quite as good because of the difference in OAL and the bullet has a longer jump to engage the rifling. It may shoot well, just not as well as the longer .357mag. Most of the deer I've shot were shot with Hornady 158g XTP JHP and some with the Hornady 180g XTP JHP. Good luck and have fun.

[idek]

NoSecondBest, at what range do you typically shoot the deer with the carbine?

I have a Marlin 1894c that I've considered deer hunting with but have yet to try it.

[buck460XVR]

Of the two rifles, I'd save up and get the Ruger bolt gun. HELLA accurate, and hits like a brick out house on fire with Buffalo Bore magnum rounds.

I have both rifles, with the exception my Rossi is stainless. The little Rossi is a tad more accurate than the Ruger. The Rossi needed a taller front sight installed to be able to adjust the sights correctly, the Ruger needed a trigger job as the factory trigger was horrendous. The Ruger accepts a scope quite readily, the Rossi does not. If you want to use scope....stick with the Ruger. Both are nice shooting firearms that do not need Buffalo Bore ammo to kill a deer.

[Erno86]

The 357 magnum is not legal to hunt deer or bear in the state of Maryland. The 357 magnum is a mediocre rifle round for hunting deer. I would pick a 44 magnum rifle on up to higher calibers.

[T. O'Heir]

Go with the .44 Mag or .45 Colt. The rest are either extremely expensive or hard to find or both. The .38 and .44-40's are reloading cartridges only too. OWS loads 'em though. About $45 per 50. Neither is loaded by any of the regular manufacturers.
The .41 Special is long gone altogether.
The .357 is marginal for deer unless you're close.
A hot .357 Magnum out of a rifle barrel is anemic compared to other cartridges.

[NoSecondBest]

NoSecondBest, at what range do you typically shoot the deer with the carbine?

It's hard to say what's "typical" when shooting deer. I've shot deer at ranges from five yards out to over a hundred yards. I will caution that the biggest problem with a .357mag at longer ranges is that the bullet will not expand very well, if at all, beyond a hundred yards with a handgun. With the rifle it will expand some out to one-hundred sixty-seven yards (my longest shot with this caliber). I'm not going to get into a debate with anyone about .357mag vs. 44mag. If the deer is hit in the vitals with either it's going to die. If it's hit in the gun or leg, etc. it's going to go a very long ways and probably not die where you'll ever find it. There is no substitution for accuracy. More power won't make a difference. If you can shoot you can get a deer with a .357. If you can't, stay home.

[Model12Win]

True, but a miss of the vitals with a Buffalo Bore .44 magnum out of a rifle will anchor them every time, no matter where hit. I do like .357 deer rifles, but if the OP can afford it, a .44 magnum is tremendously more effective when talking long guns.

[buck460XVR]

I'm not going to get into a debate with anyone about .357mag vs. 44mag. If the deer is hit in the vitals with either it's going to die. If it's hit in the gun or leg, etc. it's going to go a very long ways and probably not die where you'll ever find it. There is no substitution for accuracy. More power won't make a difference. If you can shoot you can get a deer with a .357. If you can't, stay home.

Very well said. While I prefer a .44 over .357 for deer in most cases, outta a rifle I would not feel undergunned if .357 was what I had. The OP is not only looking for a deer rifle, but a rifle he can afford to shoot. We could tell him to spend the monies he doesn't have for a reloading set-up too along with all the suggestions for other calibers and exotic $2-$3 a pop ammo. Read his OP, He already has that with his Mossberg. Some folks do not comprehend the fact that some folks have to live within their means. Sometimes living within your means, entails hunting within your limitations. Out to 125 yards, a .357 rifle has the potential to kill any Indiana deer just as dead as any other firearm. Unlike "Model12Win" claims....

but a miss of the vitals with a Buffalo Bore .44 magnum out of a rifle will anchor them every time, no matter where hit.

no firearm or exotic ammo is going to "anchor" a deer hit poorly. One still needs to hit vitals for a quick and humane kill. Here in Wisconsin, the majority of deer I have shot in the last half a century have been well under 100 yards. Probably 95% of the deer I have killed, could have been quickly and ethically killed with a .357. Several have. Only marginal thing about any deer rifle is the person looking down the barrel.

[TimSr]

I think your choice of a .357, based on your needs and criteria is a very wise one. The notion that .357 carbine is marginal is based on revolver performance. When you add another 400fps with the carbine, you equal or surpass 44 Mag revolver performance. Choose ammo with a good suitable hunting bullet, and you'll be happy. I'm partial to XTP's but there are other great choices as well.

It will make a wonderful 100 yard deer gun, and be cheap to become proficient with. Make sure it is sighted in with your hunting ammo as it may not hit the target in the same place with your 38s or any other ammo for that matter. Experimentation will tell.

Ohio just legalized pistol caliber rifles last year, and 357 lever guns are very popular, especially with younger recoil sensitive shooters. Personally, I'd prefer the .44 Mag carbine, but I don't have to buy factory ammo.

[NINEX19]

I have hunted deer with a .357 Magnum. I do not feel under gunned.It is more than adequate for deer. 158g FNSP going @2100 ft/sec matches or close to matches any other rifle round for deer. Like you said, .38 specials (cheap - especially if you reload) for plinking (and out of a rifle you can come close to low power .357 loads) It works great and I also think it fits what you are looking for. I would not and have not used it out past 150 Yard though.

As far as the rifle, I am a bit biased. Though I do not have the Rossi 92, I do have a Ruger M77/357 in stainless steel. I love that gun. (there is a thread on here somewhere about it that I started). Yes, it is a bit pricier than the Rossi, but I think it has advantages over it. Such as: 1) stainless with synthetic stock - all weather, though I think Rossi has the S.S. option as well, 2) less moving parts in the bolt action than the lever action, 3) it is built like a tank. 3) super easy to disassemble and clean. 4) they are about the same weight, but not as long as the Rossi, and 5) the Ruger name and warranty, if needed.

Some advantages that I see that the Rossi has: 1) slightly cheaper 2)holds more rounds 3) wood stock option if you like that.

I vote for the Ruger M77/357 if you have narrowed it down to those two choices.

[nossaw]

Thanks guys. I haven't had the time to properly respond to the posts, but I have popped in a few times to read them. I really appreciate the input. Most other forums I've seen with questions similar to mine get answers like, get a 30-06, 308, 300 win mag, not real answers like this. It sounds like I may be slightly better served with the Ruger. I hadn't stopped and thought about fewer moving parts means fewer chances of breakage, and easier to strip and reassemble in the field. If you think of anything else, please let me know.

[samsmix]

...a miss to the vitals with a Buffalo Bore .44magnum out of a rifle will anchor a deer every time

Respectfully, Model12Win, I must strongly disagree. The .44 Magnum is a sissy slap when compared to a big game rifle in the .243 to .338 Win mag class, and even they won't "anchor a deer every time" when the vitals are missed. In my experience of having killed and/or seen killed several hundred Whitetail, Mulie, and Antelope, this is just not the case.

That said, I would still prefer a .44 to a .357...but wouldn't shy away from the .357 at all for the OP's purpose. It really is a different creature in a rifle length barrel.

[idek]

...158g FNSP going @2100 ft/sec...

I know Buffalo Bore claims 2153 fps with 158-grain bullets, but those aren't FNSP. So I take it these are handloads? What recipe gives you that velocity? The fastest 158-grain max loads I see in manuals are around 1800 fps or less (based on a 18.5" barrel).

[NINEX19]

Oops, you are correct, I was giving my hand load velocities for 125 grain. However, 1800 ft/sec in 158g is still plenty for deer within 150 yards.

[j102]

Based on your two choices, my vote is for the Ruger 77/357. It is an excellent rifle.
Shooting 38 specials out of it will save you a lot of money at the range.
Like someone else said, make sure you test your 357 "hunting" ammo as the point of impact would be different.
Btw, do you know Ruger makes the 77/44 (44 Magnum) also?

[Boogershooter]

My eldest son and myself have killed a couple dozen deer with the 357 with a old marlin. 50 yards or less you can shoot any sjhp semi jacketed hollow point. Out to 100 I would use a more solid bullet. There are several good choices and unlike long range rifles most all choices shoot plenty accurate Enought at 100 yards to get the job done.

[bamaranger]

We kick this around a good bit, and some searches should yield other discussion.

I have not killed a fair chase deer with a .357 rifle, though I own a Marlin and have shot it a bunch at a other small game and stuff. In fact, that old carbine was my favorite for a long time, and I shot all manner of ammo through it till my eyes slipped and I don't see front sight as well on its stubby barrel.

I have absolutely no doubt that any deer hit properly with a suitable bullet, by that I mean a 158 expanding, or up, will be plenty dead, plenty fast. It is not the equal of "real" rifle cartridges, or even the venerable .30-30, but it is enough I have no doubt. Certainly if the range is kept at 100 yards or so.

BUT...the OP is inquiring about pistol caliber ctgs et al, and for that, and common ammo, as it seems he has not yet purchased a rifle, I'd have to suggest the .44 mag over the .357 as a deer rifle. The .44 is superior to the .357 on all counts as a hunting round, and has a good track record with no dispute about its effectiveness. I have used the .44, and watched it used, and can vouch for it w/o reservation.

As GP, shoot for cheap rifle that one can sometimes hunt with, the .357, with its ability to shoot .38's and mild blast and recall is great. As a hunter, its a compromise that will work, but there are other, better pistol cal choices.

[Old Stony]

Well stated bamaranger.....I have to agree with you on all counts here.

[NoSecondBest]

bamaranger,
Well stated. I've shot a lot of deer with the .357mag, but there is no way I could argue the point about which might be better for a deer hunting choice. The 44mag just does everything the 357mag does, and does it a bit better. Taking into account that the gun might turn into a plinker, target, and small game gun might change the choice a bit. In that case if I could only have one gun due to financial constraints, etc, I'd go with the .357mag and practice a bit more. That being said, the .357mag just might get shot a bit more due to the fun factor and lower recoil and therefore the shooter might just become a bit more proficient in using it. I think the best choice if it can be afforded is to get one of each and use the .44mag for the deer hunting

[44 AMP]

, but a miss of the vitals with a Buffalo Bore .44 magnum out of a rifle will anchor them every time, no matter where hit.

Since this was said without any smiley faces or other indication it was meant to be a joke, or sarcasm, I shall assume the poster meant this as a serious statement of fact.

That being the case, it is one of the stupidest things I have seen posted in ages, and the poster has lost my respect for their opinions by saying it.

You cannot count on anchoring ANYTHING if you miss the vitals. Why do you think we call them "vitals", anyway??? Because hitting them in VITAL to taking the animial. Hits in non-vital spots do not guarantee anything, other than a wounded deer, and demonstrating your poor accuracy and judgment.

As to the .357 Magnum as a deer round, it is entirely adequate, within its limitations. With the correct bullet choice, there is sufficient energy to do the job at any range you are capable of accurately placing the bullet. That is its biggest restriction, the range YOU can accurately shoot it.

However, the .357 Mag does not have the energy reserve of larger, more powerful rounds, so precision is required, along with choosing the RIGHT bullet for the job.

For deer, from a carbine, avoid the 125gr JHP class ammo. These rounds are optimized for personal defense from handguns, and while you get some impressive velocity figures from a carbine (2200fps) the bullets are being overdriven (by nearly a third), and tend to expand "explosively" and not penetrate well.

A 158gr (or heavier) soft point slug, is a much better choice, essentially the only valid choice for deer hunting. The heavier construction means they don't "blow up" as badly (expect more expansion from the higher rifle velocities,) and generally penetrate better than lighter slugs.

This may not make any difference with a behind the shoulder shot, or a neck shot, but if the slug has to get through the shoulder, the heavier bullet is a much better choice.

My experience with the .357 in a carbine is limited to the Marlin lever gun, (which is also easy to scope if desired), but other than mounting optics, I would expect the Rossi to behave about the same. While I am very fond of Rugers, for woods deer hunting I would choose the lever over the bolt action.

Another factor you might consider is recoil. Recoil of a .44 Mag from a light lever gun is fairly stout, for some people. Now, if you are used to shooting 12ga slugs, its a moot point, but if not, the .357 has the advantage. Recoil is very light (and in .38 almost non-existent), which is why it also makes a fine small game & plinking rifle.

Lots of folks will tell you that you need "artillery" to anchor a whitetail. You don't. Use the right bullet, put it in the right place, and you will have venison.

[Gunplummer]

".357 not legal to hunt deer in Maryland" I used to hunt Maryland a lot 20-25 years ago. I never heard that. I saw a few guys with .30 carbines and that is really a sissy round. New law?

[kcub]

Years ago I killed a mule deer with a 357 Python revolver. Neck shot, dead right there, 125 jhp.

[bacardisteve]

A 357 is perfectly legal in MD from either a handgun or from a rifle. Out of a rifle you can easily exceed 1200ftlbs of energy and thats with common off the shelf ammo. Its plenty for deer with a well placed shot.