Fellow handgun hunters

mxsailor803 · September 16, 2015, 05:34 PM

Alright guys, I've killed my fair share of whitetail and wild hogs with a 6" 629 .44mag using Hornady XTP's in 240gr and 300gr. I'm going to start prepping for a elk hunt next year in Oregon. Now my .44mag will be in case I get a close shot, .308 will be my longer shot weapon of choice. My question is, will the XTP's have the penetration for a fully grown Elk? I've killed a 350# boar hog with the 300's and it had full left side to ride penetration but will it perform the same on a Elk? For you handloaders, I'm using 4227 and running on the higher speeds but not to Ruger levels.

mete · September 16, 2015, 06:04 PM

I don't know about that one . A premium bullet like the Barnes all copper would do the job.

979Texas · September 16, 2015, 06:49 PM

That's a pretty good question right there. I have a Glock 20 that I use for backup on hogs and if I'm hunting in thick cover then it's my main weapon.

But when I first got this gun I puzzled and studied quite a bit to find an expanding bullet with great penetration for these nasty vermin. But penetration was my biggest objective in settling on a hog hunting expanding bullet. And I settled on the 200 gr. XTP loaded by Underwood.

I know that you're hunting elk which is something that I have no experience with, my father always used a .270 and a .30-06 for elk. But in my opinion the XTP's and Barnes are the best as far as handgun hunting bullets as far as penetration goes. And I have had great success with hogs from the XTPs they penetrate well and knock big pigs down even if I shoot em at a dead run 70 yards off through the back of their hams.

But like I said I've never hunted elk ever but I would feel comfortable using XTP's on elk as long as they were pretty heavy bullets in grains so that way it has a good sectional density so that you will still get good penetration.

After bullet structure, sectional density is the biggest key in penetration, and the heavier the bullet per caliber the higher the sectional density per caliber. Also velocity has lots to do with penetration also.

Doyle · September 16, 2015, 06:49 PM

Personally, I would use the 265gr Hornady XTP flat point. Basically same bullet with a solid nose.

hartcreek · September 16, 2015, 07:12 PM

The answer is NO. On wapiti you need a solid bullet either hard cast or solid copper so you would be looking to cast your own like I do or make an order.

big al hunter · September 16, 2015, 10:58 PM

Elk are not bullet proof. The 300 gr xtp will work. Aim to miss the shoulder blade and it will do the job. The shoulder blade and shoulder socket together will stop some rifle bullets, and is the only thing that would trouble a handgun shot. Only take the handgun shot if the elk is well inside your comfort zone and broadside or quartering away.

MarkCO · September 16, 2015, 11:20 PM

Got to love the internet.

Yes, the XTPs will work fine on elk. I have killed several elk with them. 200 grain XTPs from a 5" 10mm 1911 went through the chest on a 550 pound cow, exited and dropped her straight down at 80 yards. Killed a 5x5 bull at 60 yards, same gun, same effect. I have killed 4 more with the 210 grain XTP from my .41 Magnum. They are very accurate even near max loads. I have driven both the 10mm and the .41 bullets a good bit past the 10mm and .41 Magnum max in a .40 Super and .414 Supermag and they still held up perfectly.

Elk are tough, and you have some constraints with a handgun that you would not with a rifle, but pick your shot and you will be better off than with a solid.

TimSr · September 17, 2015, 08:36 AM

I've not shot elk, but based on my deer experience the cast doesn't do enough damage when it passes through. Sure, they die either way, but I prefer to increase the odds that it is closer to where they are shot. I would not shoot for heavy bone in an elk with either bullet. My choice would be the XTP, behind the shoulder for an archery angle shot limited to pistol distances.

Quote:

I'm using 4227 and running on the higher speeds but not to Ruger levels.

I'm not sure what that means.

big al hunter · September 17, 2015, 10:43 PM

Quote:

I'm using 4227 and running on the higher speeds but not to Ruger levels.
I'm not sure what that means

That means he hand loads his own ammo. 4227 is a type of powder. Ruger pistols are known to be exceptionally strong and capable of handling more pressure. Some ammo makers label hot loads as "Ruger Only". Most hand loading manuals also have "Ruger Only" load data.

mxsailor803 · September 17, 2015, 11:03 PM

Big Al, I kinda treat handgun hunting like bow hunting with just a little more energy. That and I never could shoot a bow well lol. I've always been picky on my shot placements unless it was hogs (dang pests!). I figured the 300 XTP's running pretty warm would do the job since I just dropped a 200lbs boar through the "shield". It's one of those things that shot placement is definitely going to be more of a factor. I mean people hunt Elk with .243's. Not my personal choice but to each's own. Thanks.

big al hunter · September 17, 2015, 11:34 PM

Best of luck to you, sailor. Don't forget to show us pics of your success.

sw282 · September 18, 2015, 03:38 AM

The best penetrating 44 bullet made these days is Sierras' 250gr Tournament Master. Thick jacket and hard core with a slightly concave exposed lead tip... Nosler used to make HG Partition Bullets in 44 cal, but they discontinued these a few years back..You can still find them now and the on GunBroker

mxsailor803 · September 19, 2015, 06:46 PM

SW, I've actually got those exact bullets. My grandfather used them forever it seemed and he got out of reloading and gave me his supplies. I think I've got 200-220 of them.

Capt Rick Hiott · September 19, 2015, 07:59 PM

Hey MX (and others) on this site that hunt with a hand gun.

You need to read this book by Max Prasac. It has a TON of good information about the subject.

I have been hunting with a .454 Casull for about 9 years now and it helped me better understand handgun hunting a LOT.

http://www.amazon.com/Big-Bore-Revol.../dp/1440228566

cornbush · September 20, 2015, 12:10 PM

You've got plenty of bullet for elk, just put it in the boiler room. I normally use a 240 cast SWC over 22 gr of 4227. But I know of more than one elk put down by XTP's, speer deep curls and plain old JSP's. I have one recovered bullet from my last bull that was approx 700 lbs, went in the last rib on the left side and found it in the shoulder blade of the right front shoulder, shot was taken at about 75 yards. Shot placement and knowing your personal limits and abilities are more important than a difference of 2"-3" in penetration between different bullets.

TimSr · September 21, 2015, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Some ammo makers label hot loads as "Ruger Only". Most hand loading manuals also have "Ruger Only" load data.

I'm very familiar with Ruger only loads for 45LC.

I have never heard of "Ruger Only" 44 mag ammo, and have never seen "Ruger Only" Reloading data for 44 mag.

mete · September 21, 2015, 07:43 AM

I once talked to a shooter who started with a M29 but with overloads so it had to be repaired!
So he bought a Ruger -the thinking the Ruger is tough he increased the already hot loads .That damaged the Ruger !! A very slow learner !
Handgun bullets slow down quickly due to the poor ballistic coefficients.Go for accuracy which is often just below max.Gun will last much longer .Use premium bullets , Barnes etc. PRACTICE !

September 16, 2015, 05:34 PM	#1
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	Fellow handgun hunters Alright guys, I've killed my fair share of whitetail and wild hogs with a 6" 629 .44mag using Hornady XTP's in 240gr and 300gr. I'm going to start prepping for a elk hunt next year in Oregon. Now my .44mag will be in case I get a close shot, .308 will be my longer shot weapon of choice. My question is, will the XTP's have the penetration for a fully grown Elk? I've killed a 350# boar hog with the 300's and it had full left side to ride penetration but will it perform the same on a Elk? For you handloaders, I'm using 4227 and running on the higher speeds but not to Ruger levels.

September 16, 2015, 06:04 PM	#2
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	I don't know about that one . A premium bullet like the Barnes all copper would do the job. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

September 16, 2015, 10:58 PM	#6
big al hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Washington state Posts: 1,558	Elk are not bullet proof. The 300 gr xtp will work. Aim to miss the shoulder blade and it will do the job. The shoulder blade and shoulder socket together will stop some rifle bullets, and is the only thing that would trouble a handgun shot. Only take the handgun shot if the elk is well inside your comfort zone and broadside or quartering away. __________________ You can't fix stupid....however ignorance can be cured through education!

September 16, 2015, 11:20 PM	#7
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	Got to love the internet. Yes, the XTPs will work fine on elk. I have killed several elk with them. 200 grain XTPs from a 5" 10mm 1911 went through the chest on a 550 pound cow, exited and dropped her straight down at 80 yards. Killed a 5x5 bull at 60 yards, same gun, same effect. I have killed 4 more with the 210 grain XTP from my .41 Magnum. They are very accurate even near max loads. I have driven both the 10mm and the .41 bullets a good bit past the 10mm and .41 Magnum max in a .40 Super and .414 Supermag and they still held up perfectly. Elk are tough, and you have some constraints with a handgun that you would not with a rifle, but pick your shot and you will be better off than with a solid. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

September 17, 2015, 11:34 PM	#11
big al hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Washington state Posts: 1,558	Best of luck to you, sailor. Don't forget to show us pics of your success. __________________ You can't fix stupid....however ignorance can be cured through education!

September 16, 2015, 06:49 PM	#3
979Texas Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2015 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 177	That's a pretty good question right there. I have a Glock 20 that I use for backup on hogs and if I'm hunting in thick cover then it's my main weapon. But when I first got this gun I puzzled and studied quite a bit to find an expanding bullet with great penetration for these nasty vermin. But penetration was my biggest objective in settling on a hog hunting expanding bullet. And I settled on the 200 gr. XTP loaded by Underwood. I know that you're hunting elk which is something that I have no experience with, my father always used a .270 and a .30-06 for elk. But in my opinion the XTP's and Barnes are the best as far as handgun hunting bullets as far as penetration goes. And I have had great success with hogs from the XTPs they penetrate well and knock big pigs down even if I shoot em at a dead run 70 yards off through the back of their hams. But like I said I've never hunted elk ever but I would feel comfortable using XTP's on elk as long as they were pretty heavy bullets in grains so that way it has a good sectional density so that you will still get good penetration. After bullet structure, sectional density is the biggest key in penetration, and the heavier the bullet per caliber the higher the sectional density per caliber. Also velocity has lots to do with penetration also.

September 16, 2015, 06:49 PM	#4
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Personally, I would use the 265gr Hornady XTP flat point. Basically same bullet with a solid nose.

September 16, 2015, 07:12 PM	#5
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	The answer is NO. On wapiti you need a solid bullet either hard cast or solid copper so you would be looking to cast your own like I do or make an order.

September 17, 2015, 11:03 PM	#10
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	Big Al, I kinda treat handgun hunting like bow hunting with just a little more energy. That and I never could shoot a bow well lol. I've always been picky on my shot placements unless it was hogs (dang pests!). I figured the 300 XTP's running pretty warm would do the job since I just dropped a 200lbs boar through the "shield". It's one of those things that shot placement is definitely going to be more of a factor. I mean people hunt Elk with .243's. Not my personal choice but to each's own. Thanks.

September 18, 2015, 03:38 AM	#12
sw282 Member Join Date: July 19, 2009 Posts: 88	The best penetrating 44 bullet made these days is Sierras' 250gr Tournament Master. Thick jacket and hard core with a slightly concave exposed lead tip... Nosler used to make HG Partition Bullets in 44 cal, but they discontinued these a few years back..You can still find them now and the on GunBroker

September 19, 2015, 06:46 PM	#13
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	SW, I've actually got those exact bullets. My grandfather used them forever it seemed and he got out of reloading and gave me his supplies. I think I've got 200-220 of them.

September 19, 2015, 07:59 PM	#14
Capt Rick Hiott Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 376	Hey MX (and others) on this site that hunt with a hand gun. You need to read this book by Max Prasac. It has a TON of good information about the subject. I have been hunting with a .454 Casull for about 9 years now and it helped me better understand handgun hunting a LOT. http://www.amazon.com/Big-Bore-Revol.../dp/1440228566 __________________ Capt Rick Hiott Charleston,SC

September 20, 2015, 12:10 PM	#15
cornbush Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: The retarded place below Idaho Posts: 1,408	You've got plenty of bullet for elk, just put it in the boiler room. I normally use a 240 cast SWC over 22 gr of 4227. But I know of more than one elk put down by XTP's, speer deep curls and plain old JSP's. I have one recovered bullet from my last bull that was approx 700 lbs, went in the last rib on the left side and found it in the shoulder blade of the right front shoulder, shot was taken at about 75 yards. Shot placement and knowing your personal limits and abilities are more important than a difference of 2"-3" in penetration between different bullets. __________________ The best shot I ever made was an accident

September 21, 2015, 07:43 AM	#17
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	I once talked to a shooter who started with a M29 but with overloads so it had to be repaired! So he bought a Ruger -the thinking the Ruger is tough he increased the already hot loads .That damaged the Ruger !! A very slow learner ! Handgun bullets slow down quickly due to the poor ballistic coefficients.Go for accuracy which is often just below max.Gun will last much longer .Use premium bullets , Barnes etc. PRACTICE ! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !