Shotguns for Home Defense

SP101 · October 8, 2009, 06:10 PM

"For home defense a lot of people suggest a shotgun. They do come in different sizes and types, and their benefit is they can send a larger pattern of shot out than a pistol or rifle. You have a better chance of hitting something."

I grew up with shotguns and a 22 rifle. We had .410's and 12 gauges on our farm. They were almost a staple. When I started planning for a home defense weapon, I naturally gravitated to a Remington 870. My view was that it was simple, effective, and relatively safe for our household. I recently ruled it out though as our sole home defense weapon, and here's why:

1. I live in town and there's no convenient place to shoot / teach my wife to shoot.
2. My wife is uncomfortable firing a shotgun.
3. They are kind of big for covert movement indoors.

and here's the fourth consideration, which was echoed by the CWP instructor in a recent class...

"They make an awful mess if you have to shoot someone with it. If you use a slug, it might go clear through the wall of your house and into your neighbor's house. If you use a traditional shell, your clean up fees could run up to $10k for cleaning up the potentially hazardous mess it will make, but if you're o.k. with the downside, then by all means buy a shotgun."

The 870 is still part of my home defense plan...but as a back-up weapon in our safe room if all else fails.

RoscoeC · October 8, 2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

"They make an awful mess if you have to shoot someone with it. If you use a slug, it might go clear through the wall of your house and into your neighbor's house. If you use a traditional shell, your clean up fees could run up to $10k for cleaning up the potentially hazardous mess it will make, but if you're o.k. with the downside, then by all means buy a shotgun."

Seriously? You need to defend the lives of your family and yourself and the mess it might make is a serious consideration?

fisherman66 · October 8, 2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

If you use a traditional shell, your clean up fees could run up to $10k for cleaning up the potentially hazardous mess it will make

Do you live in the Louvre?

centershot · October 8, 2009, 08:03 PM

Hmmmm................Well, here goes. I still consider the shotgun to be the single best choice for home defense by the average person, including my wife. AND your wife. And here's why:

A rifle bullet has a huge risk of over-penetration. In the city, where you and I both live, that is a MAJOR liability! If you foil the attempt of robbery-rape-pillage by shooting your assailants to the floor with an AR, AK or Mini-14, but one or more of your rounds penetrates the house next door and wounds or kills one of your neighbors, YOU are in a world of S%%T! If you live in the country with some space between neighbors, then maybe a rifle is a good choice.

A handgun? For the average guy, no. Not even if you are the exception among us who diligently puts in the time and expends the ammo each week to maintain a degree of excellence with a handgun. Why? Because it's 2 AM, you are awakened by the sound of a window or door being broken and you hear footsteps coming towards your bedroom. Your nervous system is on overdrive now as it is the recipient of a large adrenalin dump, it is DARK, you don't know who or how many are approaching, if they're armed or not (assume the worst!)! And DON'T say that you've got a laser sight on your pistol, or that you've got a billion candlepower xenon bulb flashlight! If you turn on a light, YOU are instantly identified as a TARGET! And, even if you've trained under extreme stress conditions, a handgun in this situation is extremely difficult to hit with. Hits are the only thing that count!

A shotgun is easy to hit with, so is a rifle but as I've already mentioned rifles have their drawbacks. The shotgun, with practice, is much more likely to produce the desired outcome, even in the dark. In your case I would choose a 20 ga pump action shotgun, load it with #4 buckshot, and have no doubt you have made the right choice. Is it the perfect choice? No, but perfection won't be achieved in this situatuion. Your wife may be put off by the recoil at first, but this can be overcome with good training. It is, in my opinion, the best choice given the circumstances.

OK, ignite the flames.

centershot · October 8, 2009, 08:11 PM

Oh, and one more point: ANY gun you use to defend your home and family with is going to make a mess out of the bad guys! That is, if you do your part! The instructor you mentioned needs to remove his cranium from his arse! In my opinion.

SP101 · October 8, 2009, 08:23 PM

"And DON'T say that you've got a laser sight on your pistol, or that you've got a billion candlepower xenon bulb flashlight! If you turn on a light, YOU are instantly identified as a TARGET!"

I agree 100%. The last thing I would do is turn on a light. But, someone actually suggested a Glock with a flashlight attached in the class we attended as a "safety precaution". The instructor did not agree.

As for the instructor...I'd predict SHE can outshoot 99.5% of those that read this forum. So...she might be a little biased (o.k. a lot biased). To give her some credit, she does do this for a living.

I didn't say I don't own a shotgun. My point is that it is not going to be the sole weapon we do rely on.

A handgun can be carried with you throughout the home (think also when you're not in bed asleep). As an example, a local residence was broken into with the homeowner sitting on his couch watching TV. The homeowner shot the 3 intruders with the pistol he was carrying.

For those that do prefer shotguns, the instructor suggested multiple shotguns in several rooms and a handgun for its portability. My wife is not going to sign off on "multiple shotguns".

fisherman66 · October 8, 2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

As for the instructor...I'd predict SHE can outshoot 99.5% of those that read this forum. So...she might be a little biased (o.k. a lot biased). To give her some credit, she does do this for a living.

You've made 9 posts and are already making book?

armsmaster270 · October 8, 2009, 08:25 PM

I have a shotgun but I will stick to my pistol for home SD I know what it will do and how I react in high stress situations and what the pistol can do. JMO

SP101 so was I, my bonafides are in my web sight below

SP101 · October 8, 2009, 08:38 PM

Fisherman -

For a little more personal background...I was in the Army for 8 years. And yes, I'll stand by my prediction.

Lee Lapin · October 8, 2009, 08:39 PM

Louis Awerbuck. http://www.yfainc.com/

Randy Cain. http://www.randycain.com/credentials.htm

Clint Smith. http://www.thunderranchinc.com/director.html

And who was that mysterious instructor, did you say?

We'll keep the shotguns here at Casa Lapin, thanks...

lpl

fisherman66 · October 8, 2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

For a little more personal background...I was in the Army for 8 years. And yes, I'll stand by my prediction.

You stand by your prediction based on your superior knowledge of the people who post on this forum? That makes no sense. We have IDPA experts here. We have career military here. We have at least a couple females here that I would place my money on against most of the fellas here. Too bad this is just the internet and the BS flows like wine.

Thank you for your service, BTW.

SP101 · October 8, 2009, 08:45 PM

Fisherman -

You made the point I was trying to make. There was no use calling the instructor into question without knowing more about her background. Perhaps I should have specified that part of my response to Centershot.

fisherman66 · October 8, 2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

There was no use calling the instructor into question without knowing more about her background.

I never did. Dude, what's wrong with you? Goodbye....click.

SP101 · October 8, 2009, 08:49 PM

Fisherman -
You didn't Centershot did.

rantingredneck · October 8, 2009, 09:05 PM

1) People bleed when shot COM. Regardless of the type of firearm doing the shooting.
2) My family is more precious than the carpet.
3) Any projectile suitable for SD will penetrate the walls of most modern dwellings and retain enough energy to be dangerous. Handguns are actually worse in this regard. www.theboxotruth.com

Cruncher Block · October 8, 2009, 09:07 PM

..

45Gunner · October 9, 2009, 07:02 AM

Shotguns are a great defensive weapon. As I stated sometime ago, anyone with a brain would probably crap in his/her pants if they were on the receiving end of hearing a shotgun being pumped/racked. With that being said, it is not always possible to be stealthy with a shotgun in your hand. As mentioned by a previous poster, a handgun gives you the best tactical advantage as you can move about in the darkness and not have to worry about hitting stuff/knocking things over with the barrel, which immediately gives your position away.

My bedroom has a shotgun and AR-15 mounted above the bed for ready use with my trusty handgun on the night table. The long guns are for holding a defensive position while the handgun is for tactical search and destroy i.e. going on the offensive. Flashlights are to confirm the body count in case the lights get blown out.

With all this being said, unless you live way out in the boonies, someone will have called 911 to tell them (the fuzz) your perimeter has been violated and response time should not be so long as to preclude a drawn out gun battle in your home. My wife will have made the call and hold her position secure with the shotgun. It's our home invasion battle plan.

Edward429451 · October 9, 2009, 07:53 AM

Don't want to make a mess in the house? Yeah, my wife just hates it when I get BG's blood on the walls.

If/when a BG is in the house, all bets are off, no rules apply, and priorities are shifted a lot. That bit in the 1st post about you have a better chance of hitting something with a SG is hogwash, at inside the house distances I wouldn't count on much of a spread at all and will have that puppy shouldered and sighting it like a rifle. That will give me a better chance of stopping someone.

Squidward · October 9, 2009, 12:52 PM

I could go either way; there are too many individual variables.. Obviously, you have to train with the platform you choose.

In my set of circumstances, I'd go with a handgun ( because I have trained allot with it) unless I had time to go to the safe and get the shotgun.

bababooey32 · October 9, 2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

tactical search and destroy i.e. going on the offensive

Tactical search and destroy is a new term I hadn't heard yet :barf:. Is that different from a strategic search and destroy? And why, pray tell, would you be going on the "offensive"? Sounds like a bad ideas all around.

TangoMcBlasty · October 9, 2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

As I stated sometime ago, anyone with a brain would probably crap in his/her pants if they were on the receiving end of hearing a shotgun being pumped/racked.

I believe that it's important to make scary noises as well. That's why I train to start up a gas-powered chainsaw as part of my house clearing drill.

oneounceload · October 9, 2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

A shotgun is easy to hit with

And also easy to miss with.

The mess will not be any more or less than with a rifle or handgun - especially if you're talking about blood splattering everywhere

The main advantage of a shotgun, IMO, is simply the cost of acquisition and ownership - they are generally the least expensive of the three, the ammunition is generally less expensive. They are typically available in more places, as is the ammunition, and even in places with fairly strict gun control, are generally more allowable to be owned - all this while still providing ample firepower for the task at hand.

And if you need to have multiple guns all over your house, you might want to think about moving - not every neighborhood is zombieland

Quote:

handgun is for tactical search and destroy i.e. going on the offensive

And even here in the Gunshine state, THAT gets you into jail real quick

armsmaster270 · October 9, 2009, 02:43 PM

I've been in one shooting and there wasn't blood everywhere even though the round "blew his heart to shreds" Coroner's words not mine there was only a little blood under the body. Cut the carpet with a razor knife taking it away would do it probably wouldn't even have to take the pad.

rem870hunter · October 9, 2009, 07:11 PM

the 870 is my primary HD weapon of choice as well. loaded with #1 buckshot. if i am shooting an intruder in my home it is to kill.

not tickle,not maim. the bugger will not be sueing me for my trousers,etc.

greensteelforge · October 9, 2009, 07:41 PM

I'd say go ahead with the shotgun, but try looking at some of the less than lethal rounds out there in 12ga. A shotgun at close range will knock the snot out of anyone, and leave them gasping on the floor. Top load a couple of the less than lethal rounds, followed by a couple of heavy game loads. If it comes to it, put lead to them, but remember, even if it's legal to kill an intruder, you will face your own conscience for the rest of your life. Do what it takes, but take the kill shot seriously, and without the heavy layer of B.S. usually affiliated with these threads. Less than lethal also mediates the real risk of accidentally shooting your kid sneaking back into the house in the middle of the night.

October 8, 2009, 08:11 PM	#5
centershot Member Join Date: June 5, 2008 Location: Peepels Republik of Nu York Posts: 37	Oh, and one more point: ANY gun you use to defend your home and family with is going to make a mess out of the bad guys! That is, if you do your part! The instructor you mentioned needs to remove his cranium from his arse! In my opinion. __________________ "All who wander are not lost." JRR Tolkien

October 8, 2009, 08:23 PM	#6
SP101 Member Join Date: September 26, 2009 Location: Tampa area Posts: 29	Shotgun for Home Defense "And DON'T say that you've got a laser sight on your pistol, or that you've got a billion candlepower xenon bulb flashlight! If you turn on a light, YOU are instantly identified as a TARGET!" I agree 100%. The last thing I would do is turn on a light. But, someone actually suggested a Glock with a flashlight attached in the class we attended as a "safety precaution". The instructor did not agree. As for the instructor...I'd predict SHE can outshoot 99.5% of those that read this forum. So...she might be a little biased (o.k. a lot biased). To give her some credit, she does do this for a living. I didn't say I don't own a shotgun. My point is that it is not going to be the sole weapon we do rely on. A handgun can be carried with you throughout the home (think also when you're not in bed asleep). As an example, a local residence was broken into with the homeowner sitting on his couch watching TV. The homeowner shot the 3 intruders with the pistol he was carrying. For those that do prefer shotguns, the instructor suggested multiple shotguns in several rooms and a handgun for its portability. My wife is not going to sign off on "multiple shotguns". Last edited by SP101; October 8, 2009 at 08:35 PM.

October 8, 2009, 08:25 PM	#8
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	I have a shotgun but I will stick to my pistol for home SD I know what it will do and how I react in high stress situations and what the pistol can do. JMO SP101 so was I, my bonafides are in my web sight below __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S. Last edited by armsmaster270; October 8, 2009 at 09:37 PM.

October 8, 2009, 08:38 PM	#9
SP101 Member Join Date: September 26, 2009 Location: Tampa area Posts: 29	Shotgun for Home Defense Fisherman - For a little more personal background...I was in the Army for 8 years. And yes, I'll stand by my prediction.

October 8, 2009, 08:39 PM	#10
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	Louis Awerbuck. http://www.yfainc.com/ Randy Cain. http://www.randycain.com/credentials.htm Clint Smith. http://www.thunderranchinc.com/director.html And who was that mysterious instructor, did you say? We'll keep the shotguns here at Casa Lapin, thanks... lpl __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

October 8, 2009, 06:10 PM	#1
SP101 Member Join Date: September 26, 2009 Location: Tampa area Posts: 29	Shotguns for Home Defense "For home defense a lot of people suggest a shotgun. They do come in different sizes and types, and their benefit is they can send a larger pattern of shot out than a pistol or rifle. You have a better chance of hitting something." I grew up with shotguns and a 22 rifle. We had .410's and 12 gauges on our farm. They were almost a staple. When I started planning for a home defense weapon, I naturally gravitated to a Remington 870. My view was that it was simple, effective, and relatively safe for our household. I recently ruled it out though as our sole home defense weapon, and here's why: 1. I live in town and there's no convenient place to shoot / teach my wife to shoot. 2. My wife is uncomfortable firing a shotgun. 3. They are kind of big for covert movement indoors. and here's the fourth consideration, which was echoed by the CWP instructor in a recent class... "They make an awful mess if you have to shoot someone with it. If you use a slug, it might go clear through the wall of your house and into your neighbor's house. If you use a traditional shell, your clean up fees could run up to $10k for cleaning up the potentially hazardous mess it will make, but if you're o.k. with the downside, then by all means buy a shotgun." The 870 is still part of my home defense plan...but as a back-up weapon in our safe room if all else fails. Last edited by SP101; October 8, 2009 at 07:34 PM.

October 8, 2009, 08:03 PM	#4
centershot Member Join Date: June 5, 2008 Location: Peepels Republik of Nu York Posts: 37	Hmmmm................Well, here goes. I still consider the shotgun to be the single best choice for home defense by the average person, including my wife. AND your wife. And here's why: A rifle bullet has a huge risk of over-penetration. In the city, where you and I both live, that is a MAJOR liability! If you foil the attempt of robbery-rape-pillage by shooting your assailants to the floor with an AR, AK or Mini-14, but one or more of your rounds penetrates the house next door and wounds or kills one of your neighbors, YOU are in a world of S%%T! If you live in the country with some space between neighbors, then maybe a rifle is a good choice. A handgun? For the average guy, no. Not even if you are the exception among us who diligently puts in the time and expends the ammo each week to maintain a degree of excellence with a handgun. Why? Because it's 2 AM, you are awakened by the sound of a window or door being broken and you hear footsteps coming towards your bedroom. Your nervous system is on overdrive now as it is the recipient of a large adrenalin dump, it is DARK, you don't know who or how many are approaching, if they're armed or not (assume the worst!)! And DON'T say that you've got a laser sight on your pistol, or that you've got a billion candlepower xenon bulb flashlight! If you turn on a light, YOU are instantly identified as a TARGET! And, even if you've trained under extreme stress conditions, a handgun in this situation is extremely difficult to hit with. Hits are the only thing that count! A shotgun is easy to hit with, so is a rifle but as I've already mentioned rifles have their drawbacks. The shotgun, with practice, is much more likely to produce the desired outcome, even in the dark. In your case I would choose a 20 ga pump action shotgun, load it with #4 buckshot, and have no doubt you have made the right choice. Is it the perfect choice? No, but perfection won't be achieved in this situatuion. Your wife may be put off by the recoil at first, but this can be overcome with good training. It is, in my opinion, the best choice given the circumstances. OK, ignite the flames. __________________ "All who wander are not lost." JRR Tolkien

October 8, 2009, 08:45 PM	#12
SP101 Member Join Date: September 26, 2009 Location: Tampa area Posts: 29	Shotgun for Home Defense Fisherman - You made the point I was trying to make. There was no use calling the instructor into question without knowing more about her background. Perhaps I should have specified that part of my response to Centershot.

October 8, 2009, 08:49 PM	#14
SP101 Member Join Date: September 26, 2009 Location: Tampa area Posts: 29	Fisherman - You didn't Centershot did.

October 8, 2009, 09:05 PM	#15
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	1) People bleed when shot COM. Regardless of the type of firearm doing the shooting. 2) My family is more precious than the carpet. 3) Any projectile suitable for SD will penetrate the walls of most modern dwellings and retain enough energy to be dangerous. Handguns are actually worse in this regard. www.theboxotruth.com __________________ NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)

October 8, 2009, 09:07 PM	#16
Cruncher Block Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Posts: 63	.. Last edited by Cruncher Block; October 8, 2009 at 09:27 PM. Reason: Deleted

October 9, 2009, 07:02 AM	#17
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	Shotguns are a great defensive weapon. As I stated sometime ago, anyone with a brain would probably crap in his/her pants if they were on the receiving end of hearing a shotgun being pumped/racked. With that being said, it is not always possible to be stealthy with a shotgun in your hand. As mentioned by a previous poster, a handgun gives you the best tactical advantage as you can move about in the darkness and not have to worry about hitting stuff/knocking things over with the barrel, which immediately gives your position away. My bedroom has a shotgun and AR-15 mounted above the bed for ready use with my trusty handgun on the night table. The long guns are for holding a defensive position while the handgun is for tactical search and destroy i.e. going on the offensive. Flashlights are to confirm the body count in case the lights get blown out. With all this being said, unless you live way out in the boonies, someone will have called 911 to tell them (the fuzz) your perimeter has been violated and response time should not be so long as to preclude a drawn out gun battle in your home. My wife will have made the call and hold her position secure with the shotgun. It's our home invasion battle plan. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

October 9, 2009, 07:53 AM	#18
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Don't want to make a mess in the house? Yeah, my wife just hates it when I get BG's blood on the walls. If/when a BG is in the house, all bets are off, no rules apply, and priorities are shifted a lot. That bit in the 1st post about you have a better chance of hitting something with a SG is hogwash, at inside the house distances I wouldn't count on much of a spread at all and will have that puppy shouldered and sighting it like a rifle. That will give me a better chance of stopping someone.

October 9, 2009, 12:52 PM	#19
Squidward Member Join Date: May 10, 2006 Location: Sunny California Posts: 66	My 2 cents I could go either way; there are too many individual variables.. Obviously, you have to train with the platform you choose. In my set of circumstances, I'd go with a handgun ( because I have trained allot with it) unless I had time to go to the safe and get the shotgun.

October 9, 2009, 02:43 PM	#23
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	I've been in one shooting and there wasn't blood everywhere even though the round "blew his heart to shreds" Coroner's words not mine there was only a little blood under the body. Cut the carpet with a razor knife taking it away would do it probably wouldn't even have to take the pad. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

October 9, 2009, 07:11 PM	#24
rem870hunter Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2007 Location: N.J. and trying to decide what state to move to. Posts: 973	the 870 is my primary HD weapon of choice as well. loaded with #1 buckshot. if i am shooting an intruder in my home it is to kill. not tickle,not maim. the bugger will not be sueing me for my trousers,etc. __________________ BEAR Bows,Remington shotguns,Marlin rifles

October 9, 2009, 07:41 PM	#25
greensteelforge Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 90	I'd say go ahead with the shotgun, but try looking at some of the less than lethal rounds out there in 12ga. A shotgun at close range will knock the snot out of anyone, and leave them gasping on the floor. Top load a couple of the less than lethal rounds, followed by a couple of heavy game loads. If it comes to it, put lead to them, but remember, even if it's legal to kill an intruder, you will face your own conscience for the rest of your life. Do what it takes, but take the kill shot seriously, and without the heavy layer of B.S. usually affiliated with these threads. Less than lethal also mediates the real risk of accidentally shooting your kid sneaking back into the house in the middle of the night.