The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 9, 2017, 10:47 AM   #1
QuarterHorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 421
Extended range time with magnums

Looking to do another bolt gun and do a western diy hunt this upcoming year for elk. I know my current rigs are fine for elk but I don't own any magnum caliber rifles and just want at least one. I e settled in on 7Rem Mag but am a bit worried when doing a precision rifle class, a 1-300 round range day may beat me up a bit. I'm not generally recoil sensitive and maybe it's just been me reading way too many articles on this stuff.

Thoughts on the subject?

FWIW the rig I'm leaning towards will be a Tikka T3X lite in a Nell and Carlson stock wearing Vortex Bioer glass and rings.

Thanks all
__________________
Never enough toys
QuarterHorse is offline  
Old December 9, 2017, 11:08 AM   #2
ligonierbill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2007
Posts: 1,521
What do you shoot now? The 7 mag is not that different from a 30-06. As always, good form, a gun that fits. I often put a thin gel pad under my shirt, not just with "magnums". I have an old Mauser with the original steel butt plate that bites if you don't pay attention. Of course, today there are a bunch of hot 7mm that don't have "magnum" in their name. Most are hotter than the Remington Magnum. But it's still one of my favorites.
ligonierbill is online now  
Old December 9, 2017, 12:43 PM   #3
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 9,189
The 7 mag shoots the same bullet weights to the same speeds as 30-06 for almost identical recoil. But in the same bullet weight 7mm bullets are more aerodynamic and hit with a little more energy and a little less drop at extended ranges. The difference isn't huge either way. I've had 7 mags, but the small advantages in performance just didn't make enough difference to justify the expense.

A 30-06 is a legitimate 500-600 yard elk gun. Modern bullets and optics mean flat trajectory is much less important. While a 30-06 will drop a little more that is much easier to compensate for with modern optics.

Unless someone plans to shoot elk at ranges over 600 yards it is hard to justify ANY magnum round anymore. There are guys killing elk anymore with 6.5 Creedmoor and 243 at ranges over 700 yards. My comfort zone for long range shooting ends at about 400 yards. I can do that with my 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor with 1/2 the recoil and cost of even 30-06. I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor and sold my magnums. I consider it an upgrade.

If I wanted a longer range hunting rig I'd look at the 26 or
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is online now  
Old December 9, 2017, 01:05 PM   #4
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 6,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterHorse
a 1-300 round range day may beat me up a bit
I wouldn't shoot 100-300 rounds a day out of any magnum rifle in a weight I'd hunt elk with. It would take a lot of recoil mitigation to be able to tolerate that much shooting on a regular basis without developing bad habits. You'd be looking at muzzle brakes which can cause you to anticipate the shot almost as bad as recoil, suppressor, or shooting from something like a lead sled.

If it were me and I wanted to get good at long range shooting, I'd look at something a lot cheaper to shoot like a bolt action .223 with a 1:9 or faster twist. You can practice to your hearts content with a .223, without the wear and tear on a barrel that the 7mm Mag will. Plus you'll get on your long range target faster with fewer shots with something like the 7mm Mag.

I'm sorry I missed the part where you're enrolled in a precision rifle course. If it were me, I'd ask one of the instructors. They could tell you how people have performed in the past with similar rifles.
__________________
NRA Life Member

Last edited by taylorce1; December 9, 2017 at 02:06 PM.
taylorce1 is offline  
Old December 9, 2017, 01:10 PM   #5
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,085
I disagree on the 7mm. My take on it is it has a lot more perceived kick.

I think its the large charge moving a tiny bullet and the pulse is higher even though the total energy content is not that far off from an 06.

I have shot 338 and 375 and while there is a lot there its a slower build and not bad to shoot.

I too thought I was recoil insensitive until I started shooing 250 rounds a session with 30-06 and 308.

Kickeeeze and or Limbsaver is a good way to go.

If your heart is set on a 7mm I would also get a muzzle break though people at the range will not be happy shooting next to you.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old December 9, 2017, 02:03 PM   #6
QuarterHorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 421
Like I said earlier in the list, I have other rifles. I want to guide this away from a "what caliber" thread so much as a magnum vs non. I've also thought I could drag out my .308 and update glass on it and take that as ranges are north of 500 yards in the class and my 20 cal variants won't do that well.

I'm not interested in buying multiple rifles, like I said I can drag a .308 and be fine for class and buy my 7mm for the hunt anyway. I was however asking about round counts starting at 100 and going north on a 1 or 2 day precision rifle course and doing it with something that thumps a bit.

Maybe I should have re-worded a touch. I'm buying a 7 Rem Mag mountain gun to hunt west with. Should I use this for my precision class or use something like my old .308?

Thanks again all
__________________
Never enough toys
QuarterHorse is offline  
Old December 9, 2017, 02:10 PM   #7
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,282
There is no game anywhere in North America that requires a magnum of any kind to kill. Magnums in general are the most successful marketing campaign in history.
"...100-300 rounds a day out of any magnum rifle..." Any center fire will pound your shoulder into mush with that many rounds. A shooting jacket might help though. Precision target rifles are not magnums for that reason. Those that are magnums will not be hunting rifles. They weigh 15ish pounds.
Actual recoil varies by bullet weight and velocity, but the 7mm Mag's runs around 20 ft-lbs.
"...elk at ranges over 600 yards..." A factory 175 grain 7mm Mag sighted in at 200, drops like a brick past 300 yards. 7.8" low at 300, 22.3" at 400, 44.5" at 500. And the shooter has to contend with wind drift according to the speed and direction of the wind to be able to hit the proverbial 9" pie plate at those distances.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old December 9, 2017, 02:31 PM   #8
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,085
Use the 308 and be sure it has a good recoil pad.

Even that gun at 300 rounds is going to start to bother you up past 100 or so.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old December 9, 2017, 02:44 PM   #9
QuarterHorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 421
Figured as much thanks all
__________________
Never enough toys
QuarterHorse is offline  
Old December 9, 2017, 03:24 PM   #10
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 12,079
Use a gel shoulder pad but I would think that just about every large hunting cartridge will start to get to you well before 300 rounds launched down range.

I would consider a 7mm Rem Mag comparable to a 30.06 by the way.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old December 9, 2017, 03:30 PM   #11
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,207
I've used a Magnum rifle on exactly one elk hunt, a Winchester M70 in .300 Win. Mag. The area I drew for that hunt is notorious for having to take extra long range shots I practiced twice a week for almost three months and on opening day took my elk at a laser measured 530 yards. I don't hunt that area anymore.
On the last elk hunts I've done, elk have been taken with a 30-06 (1) and .35 Whelen. The 30-06 elk was shot at right about 100 yards. The Whelen elk have run from 150 yards to 350 yards laser measured.
My hunting pards have used a 7MM Rem. Mag, and the .270 Win. The .270 shooter took his last elk at 440 yards as measured by the guide. The 7MM Mag. shooter has gone back to the 30-06 for his last two elk hunts.
I just may use a 7x57 or .280 Rem. for my hunt this year. Just depends on what my mood will be when I leave for the hunt.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old December 9, 2017, 09:34 PM   #12
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,268
"I e settled in on 7Rem Mag but am a bit worried when doing a precision rifle class, a 1-300 round range day may beat me up a bit."

And why do you feel the need to take this HUNTING RIFLE to a "precision rifle class"? I took my old 7mmRM elk hunting 2 weeks ago(it had only been out of the case 3-4 times for a wipe down in the last decade). Shot it 5 times using a double thick PAST recoil pad to check zero and went hunting. One shot=one elk and done.
Mobuck is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 12:05 AM   #13
QuarterHorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 421
After typing a long post I figured the reasons won't matter, other than because I want to. Doesn't matter why
__________________
Never enough toys
QuarterHorse is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 05:28 AM   #14
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 4,338
I absolutely love my 7 mags, they shoot well for one, and the recoil doesnt bother me like it does others.
Im going to the range today to prove a load I tested 2 weeks ago, itll be 10 rnds, and scattered amongst that test will be some Creedmoor and maybe .270 win.
I also have always loved 3006 and have taken plenty of deer with a couple different ones Ive owned in the past.
Any Elk hunt anywhere, (if my old body could take it) Id find the lightest rifle and practice shooting from various positions utilizing back packs, shooting sticks, logs and tree branches...
__________________
Thanks for coming!
hooligan1 is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 06:21 AM   #15
eastbank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2008
Location: pa.
Posts: 2,066
LOL- drops like a brick, 6.5 140gr sp at 2900 fps. 200-0, 300-7.2 down, 400-20.8 down, 500-41.9 down. 7mm 175gr sp at 2900 fps. 200-0, 300-7.2 down, 400-20.8 down, 500-42 down. eastbank.
eastbank is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 10:21 AM   #16
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 6,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastbank
LOL- drops like a brick,
"Drops like a brick", that should be on Mr T. O'Heir's signature line at the bottom of every post he makes. I don't think there is a cartridge out there he won't use that saying on. For fun search the forums for posts by T. O'Heir using "drops like a brick", you'll find he uses that statement quite often.

I guess shooters just have to learn to compensate for all those trajectories that drop like bricks.
__________________
NRA Life Member
taylorce1 is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 10:34 AM   #17
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Pennsyltucky...
Posts: 1,779
Well you got your answer already, Quarterhorse.. And personally give ya a thumbs up for wanting to get professional tutorage for improving your long range shooting.

T.O. why use a 175 gr ? Personally i don't go over 160 gr for hunting with my Rem Mag. For elk my choice would be the 150gr ABLR.
std7mag is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 10:56 AM   #18
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,085
Quote:
"I e settled in on 7Rem Mag but am a bit worried when doing a precision rifle class, a 1-300 round range day may beat me up a bit."

And why do you feel the need to take this HUNTING RIFLE to a "precision rifle class"? I took my old 7mmRM elk hunting 2 weeks ago(it had only been out of the case 3-4 times for a wipe down in the last decade). Shot it 5 times using a double thick PAST recoil pad to check zero and went hunting. One shot=one elk and done.
Mobuck is offline
Kind of snarky in my view.

Last I knew it was a free country at least in that regard and the OP can do what tickles his fancy.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 11:20 AM   #19
QuarterHorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 421
I'm not too proud to take training of any sort. I tout training for the handgun stuff we do, I need to follow my own advice for the rifle stuff we don't have a lot of opportunity to do in Iowa unless you happen to own a lot of land, which, I live in suburbia which is iut haha.
__________________
Never enough toys
QuarterHorse is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 12:55 PM   #20
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,209
My old 7mm mag kicked like a mule! Haven't shot any mag in years but have a local's rifle in 7mm mag to reload for right now. The thing about the magnum's is you do need to shoot them quite a bit to keep in touch with handling recoil. I used to shoot that old 7mm mag and a 338 mag about 20 rds each from the bench a few time's a week. If I missed a few weeks, the pain started all over. But you can learn to handle it, 300 rds at a time? Wow, I wouldn't dare to say yes to that. I use a 30-06 starting just this year for elk. It will do all a 7mm mag will do at any range I'm liable to shoot. The need for a magnum for elk hunting seem's always to be based on range people will shoot at one or expect to shoot at one. It is not necessary to shoot extended range just because you came out west. Let's face it, if your not up to it, no cartridge will help you. If you are up to it, a 280 Rem or 30-06 will be fine.
Don Fischer is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 01:30 PM   #21
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,268
"Kind of snarky in my view.

Last I knew it was a free country at least in that regard and the OP can do what tickles his fancy."

In which case he shouldn't have made this comment:
" but am a bit worried when doing a precision rifle class, a 1-300 round range day may beat me up a bit."
Mobuck is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 04:42 PM   #22
QuarterHorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 13, 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 421
I can make whatever comment I want in this case. There's no need to be an ass about anything really. I've gotten an answer to which you confirmed you would rather have something closer to a bench rest gun, or at least something different than a hunting rifle to a class. I however shoot far more handgun competitions/leagues/etc... and preferred to have something familiar in my hands at a class as I would in the field.

I don't need a bench rest gun, giant waste of time for me. There's nothing wrong with bench rest shooting, I think it's not for me. Something I'm going to use in the field and have hands on experience with in a class however, is useful.

If you don't have anything constructive just keep scrolling when you see anything posted. As far as the admins are concerned, my questions have been answered.
__________________
Never enough toys
QuarterHorse is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 04:46 PM   #23
Panfisher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,310
Much as I loved my 7 Mags I know my limits, I have zero interest in shooting one that much in a day for many reasons. I know I would develop a flinch and loose my ability to accurately place my shots, that many shots out of a sporter weight rifle doesn't sound like fun. I would expect the barrel life of a 7 Mag would be less than many other calibers. The only things off hand I can think of that would help, are; GOOD recoil pads, adding weight to the rifle, muzzle brakes. All have their down sides. It might not be my choice but you can shoot a .378 Weatherby if you want, won't bother me.
Panfisher is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 06:08 PM   #24
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Pennsyltucky...
Posts: 1,779
I would love to go to a school for long reang. And yeah i'd take some shots with my Rem Mag.
But as the OP was originally stating 100-300 rounds a day with it. He() no!!!
std7mag is offline  
Old December 10, 2017, 08:26 PM   #25
ms6852
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 810
I've been hunting with 30-06 for 50 years and my brother 7mag seems to kick a little bit more than my 06. Could be perceived but I feel it. My brother has taken elk with his 270, but not at 600 yards. All his kills have been at about 203yds max. To me there is only one advantage the 7mag has over the 06. That is it will remain supersonic to about 1500 yds where the 06 to about 1200 yards. I can't see that far so it does not matter. Where it matter to me is price! A whole darn cheaper to buy 06 Remington core-lokt than 7mag.
__________________
ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. ONE IS JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR SOUL AND THE OTHER IS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOUR FREEDOM.
ms6852 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10605 seconds with 8 queries