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Old October 22, 2017, 01:36 PM   #51
stagpanther
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I know I'm sounding like a bit of a fan boy--but if you really need "big 5 dropability" take a look at Mossbergs's new patriot in 375 ruger--it can be loaded up and down from "mild 45-70" to full power 375h&h and then some. $450 for a really well-made rifle IMHO.
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Old October 22, 2017, 03:45 PM   #52
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Quote:
On hearing a similar comment, a smart dudenal once replied: "Grow stronger
Well, I have a rupture disk that got fixed (and a bulged on that settled down)

Doc says I behave and I am good, be tough, well the wheel chair awaits.

And sadly, there is no beating age. You can work it to the limits, some go on forever (my wifes dad going good at 85) but I am more typical and with the restrictions not anything to be done.

So I take the woosie way out (grin) 1 inch recoil pads though I won't subject the range to the muzzle brakes.

I learned some here, my dad shot Sitka deer with a 30-06 and I don't recall a lot of damage, so maybe he poked a hole in them.

My experience with a 375 was it was a lot easier shooting than a 7mm.

I never felt the recoil with a 3 inch 12 gauge when hunting though I sure could non hunting.

375 Ruger sounds like an interesting go, ok in the US, I would not take it over sea (AK is but we are fairly mainstream and a State)

You better have a good deer shot though, hit bones and half the animal goes away.

I got nothing again a 338, just seems if you are going to jump, jump big.

6.5 Creed or the like, 30-06 (or my favorite 7.5 Swiss!) and 375 and you are good for anything (borrow a 458 if you need to and wind up over
Africa way)
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Old October 22, 2017, 05:26 PM   #53
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375 Ruger sounds like an interesting go, ok in the US, I would not take it over sea
The 375 ruger actually has a bit more capacity and velocity than the h&H when loaded to full power.
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Old October 23, 2017, 05:29 PM   #54
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^ ^ I think RC20 might be advising that .375 Ruger ammunition will be harder to find than the .375 H&H once you leave the United States.
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Old October 23, 2017, 06:39 PM   #55
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^ ^ I think RC20 might be advising that .375 Ruger ammunition will be harder to find than the .375 H&H once you leave the United States.
Ahh--my bad if I misunderstood.
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Old October 23, 2017, 06:57 PM   #56
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I guarantee that you are right in the southern hemisphere, maybe the flanged 9.3 in some European areas, and the hh will be a whole lot easier to find in America, ammo and used rifles. I suspect that there will be pockets of the ruger in big game regions.
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Old October 23, 2017, 08:26 PM   #57
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I simply reload for my 375 ruger--VERY easy to do for an "almost" big bore cartridge that fits conventional action sizes Simple sometimes is better. : ) If necessary--it can be very powerful.
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Old October 23, 2017, 08:44 PM   #58
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22LR
243WIN
375H&H
458WIN

That about covers everything soup-to-nuts,
with "just the right" overlap & availability


...and if you're a handloader... the smoothest curve in performance tailoring ya`ever saw
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Old October 23, 2017, 10:37 PM   #59
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22LR
243WIN
375H&H
458WIN

That about covers everything soup-to-nuts,
with "just the right" overlap & availability

I would throw a 30 cal in there for big body deer but yeah.

Midway USA came up with a set of rifles raffled off a while back called "The nearly perfect Rifle Battery".

It was a set of model 70 Super Grades in the following cartridges

22-250
.270 win
.300 win mag
.375 HH

If you add a 22LR to that you are set for anything. You can hunt the big 5 in Africa with the .375 HH and 350 gr pills.
The .300 win mag for moose/Brown bear etc.
The .270 for deer /antelope
And a 22-250 for varmints or smallish - small/medium game.

And 22LR for really small game.
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Old October 24, 2017, 07:44 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Mississippi
Midway USA came up with a set of rifles raffled off a while back called "The nearly perfect Rifle Battery".

It was a set of model 70 Super Grades in the following cartridges

22-250
.270 win
.300 win mag
.375 HH
My buddy won that set of rifles, but it wasn't through Midway. He bought his raffle ticket through an online forum like this one to support a youth shooting team. I've also seen that set of rifles being sold on Gunbroker. It's a nice set of rifles that will cover anything anyone could ever want to hunt.
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Old October 24, 2017, 08:03 AM   #61
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* * *
Quote:
I would throw a 30 cal in there for big body deer but yeah.
Yeah, I agree, but for me the "perfect hunting rifle battery" is pretty much impossible to limit to four chamberings anyway, and I'm a fan of having mostly "common" calibers in there, with the ol' .375 H&H being a near-universal DGR chambering. Ruger's .375 has grown in popularity in that niche, but it hasn't yet outpaced the H&H in the places where DGRs are actually being used in the field: Alaska & Africa - which again raises the specter of ammo-availability.

Quote:
Midway USA came up with a set of rifles raffled off a while back called "The nearly perfect Rifle Battery".
It was a set of model 70 Super Grades in the following cartridges
22-250
.270 win
.300 win mag
.375 HH
If you add a 22LR to that you are set for anything. You can hunt the big 5 in Africa with the .375 HH and 350 gr pills.
The .300 win mag for moose/Brown bear etc.
The .270 for deer /antelope
And a 22-250 for varmints or smallish - small/medium game.
And 22LR for really small game.
The problem with that list is the 300mag and .375 H&H give way too much overlap. First, the .375 can be loaded with all manner of lighter bullets sent fast with less pressure (I've played around reloading 200gn-225gn bullets in my .375 BRNO 602 with great, flat-shooting accuracy). Second, a .30-06, with the right powders, can be loaded pretty close to lower .300 mag velocities anyway. If more power is needed on game, I'd just grab the .375.

So for me the Big 5 chamberings (if including rimfire) would be:

22l.r.;

223/5.56 (heavily invested in rifles, ammo, reloading equipment & components - brass, bullets, powder);

30.06 (again same: heavily invested in it) - although the .308 would be a legit 30-cal substitute if hunting is restricted to the lower 48;

.375H&H (Alaska & Africa);

404 Jeffrey (Africa - admittedly not as "common" as the .458WM, but it's the most classic and 'nostalgic' of the 40-cal African magnums, and it's what I have already ).

Or, if the .22-rimfire is excluded and only centerfire calibers make the list, then those are the Big 4.

Last edited by agtman; October 24, 2017 at 08:11 AM.
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Old October 24, 2017, 10:34 AM   #62
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The problem with that list is the 300mag and .375 H&H give way too much overlap. First, the .375 can be loaded with all manner of lighter bullets sent fast with less pressure (I've played around reloading 200gn-225gn bullets in my .375 BRNO 602 with great, flat-shooting accuracy). Second, a .30-06, with the right powders, can be loaded pretty close to lower .300 mag velocities anyway. If more power is needed on game, I'd just grab the .375.
I am a .300 win mag fan. I have 3 of them. it is a very versitile cartridge and it does have some overlap, but I promise you cannot load a .30-06 anywhere close to what I load my .300wm loads to. My elk load is a 200 gr nosler accubond at 2950 w/24" barrel. My F-Class load is a 225 gr Hornady ELD-M at 2990 fps from a 28" barrel. That is up there with the .338 Lapua magnum for a 225 gr bullet.

You can't compare a Weak .300wm to a strong '06, for apples to apples I use factory ammo comparisons, even though I don't use factory ammo, because I can "juice up" anything.

But, because I already have .300wm's, I do not have an HH...For my big game thumper i have the 460 weatherby....If that gun wont kill it, I shouldn't be trying to hunt it.
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Old October 24, 2017, 01:11 PM   #63
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I really can't agree with the list at all.
.223.
.270
300 short magnum
.416 Remington.

22-250 is for dedicated prairie dog shooters, the .223 will serve 90% or more people much better.

I generally see the '06, .270, and many other as being nearly identical in function for most purposes. I would choose the dead ..280, a 7mm-06 or 30-06. Again, excellent function for the great majority of hunters. The short magnum might be better.

.338 to go after anything that exists in any non African continent.

I would choose a .416 because many, if not all, countries won't permit any bore smaller than that for elephant. If I had choice of a rimfire to complete this set it would be a 17 or a 22 magnum.

We haven't put any limits on this, right? It's just a list of dreams. We will own other pieces.
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Old October 24, 2017, 06:22 PM   #64
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To be on topic: 375 H&H all day. (Cause that's what I got )

A far as an all inclusive list of calibers:

The 300 WSM can cover everything from 308 to 338 Mag easily. That's why I favor the 375 over the 338 Mag. I shoot 200 grain Barnes LRX in my 300 WSM and would feel good taking Black Bear, Moose, Elk and similar without reservation.

Bigger than that? 375 H&H or 450 Marlin.
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Old October 26, 2017, 07:08 AM   #65
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.338 WM for Alaska
.416 Rem Mag for Africa
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Old October 26, 2017, 08:48 PM   #66
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Here's how I solved the 4 rifle Question:

22LR:



270WCF:



9.3x62:



458WM:
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Old October 31, 2017, 07:36 PM   #67
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Along asimiliar line, I was worjing for four year in Everr, Wa, thought I upgradr my rifle to include a 7mmMAg, for possibl elk usage, never happed. So, us inafter MI whitetail, I use a differnt powder to give 7X57Mauser velocity, with out overkill.SO, I suggest the .375H&H, for should be .375 is more common.
Hope this helps.
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Old November 1, 2017, 08:36 AM   #68
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If I thought I had need for a .375 H&H Mag, I'd go with a .416 Rem Mag.

I'd rather had a .338 Win Mag than a .338 Win Mag due to sectional density of .338 caliber bullets.

The .35 Whelen is a good cartridge, but the .338 Win Mag is better. Again, it's about sectional density.

I'd rather have a .338 Win Mag than any .300 magnum.

I'd rather have a 7MM Rem Mag than any .300 magnum.

If I had to go into thick stuff after a wounded and very dangerous brown bear, I'd want a .45/70 Gov't Guide Gun firing 400+ grain cast bullets.
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Old November 1, 2017, 08:46 AM   #69
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I prefer the .375 myself. If I was hunting something with the .338 and I had to wonder if it was "enough" I would not stop at the .375 though. If the .338 is not "enough" I'm going into the .40 African cartridges of some type or another.

Then again the only thing I can think of where the .375 would be questionable, in my opinion, is elephant and I have no desire to hunt elephant.
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Old November 1, 2017, 12:48 PM   #70
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One rifle for deer and brown bear will not be perfect for both. If you must use one for both then I say carry enough power for the bear and don't worry about having too much for the deer.

There are only two land animals that hunt, kill and eat humans. Bear are one of them. I don't hunt but if I did I'm thinking a 458 or 460 for brown bear.
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Old November 2, 2017, 12:16 PM   #71
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Hi Saxonpig,

An '06 might be pretty close to an ideal gun for both.
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Old November 18, 2017, 11:02 PM   #72
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I've shot both and most everything around that size. Mostly killed in the midbores with my 338wm. My 338wm is in a custom based on a New Haven, SS, Classic action. For hunting I shoot nothing but 250 grn AFrames with around 70 grns of H4831sc. Good to 500 yards and pretty much eat up to the hole.

A lot of counsel here, a lot of it emotional - which is okay. The bottom line is the 338wm, 375 ruger, 375h&h, 9.3x62, and a number of other midbores will all do about the same thing. What matters is how you shoot it. In this case the fit of the stock to your body type is more important than the cartridge.

My 338wm is a soft shooter, whether it is the 26 inch barrel or the Macmillan Hunter stock, or the 1" decelerator pad it is a mellow cat to shoot. I routinely shoot 40 - 50 rounds off a bench to stay tight. My 9.3x62 is about the same. The 375's I have shot are about the same.

As far as ballistics by far the biggest influence is your ability to shoot. I cannot honestly say that either a 375 or a 338 or a fast 300 is superior. I like the 338 better but that is my bias from killing an ark load of animals with it.

From my experience I have not seen any 375 that shoots in the same class as my 338 for accuracy but part of that is $4500 dollar package(with glass included) and a couple of thousand rounds down the barrel.

Buy a good quality rifle in 338wm or 375h&H, put a very good piece of glass on it - think Swaro, Nightforce, US Optics, Leica range. Keep the magnification UNDER 10 power. Settle on one bullet weight and shoot it a lot.

When you can call the letter on a popcan at 100 yards go kill stuff and have fun.

For rifles I like: the new Model 70 Classic ( or any of the older Model 70CRF's), the Ruger Hawkeye, Kimber, Montana Rifle Company, NULA - or an old FN Browning in 338wm (just make sure its a pre 67 or so). If you can find a BRNO 602 that is also a particularly fine rifle. I just passed on a minty one in 375h&h and am regretting it right now.

Honestly, be more worried about how the rifle fits you, high quality hunting bullets, and practice than caliber or cartridge.
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Old November 19, 2017, 02:59 PM   #73
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I sold all my mag big game rifles two years ago. I had 9 magnums, sold them
because of bad back and not going to be able to cut big game terrain any more.
The only one I regret selling was Sako 375H&H that I bought back in 60s. It
ended up being my favorite rifle. I even got loading it with light bullets for deer.
Biggest animal I shot with it was a Moose and it plum kilt it hands down. I had
M70 pre 64 338mg. it wasn't bad but wasn't as accurate as the 375 H&H. I had
several other 375H&H rifles and they all shot well. The 375H&H can bail a
300gr bullet with the same trajectory as a 150gr in a 30/06, that's impressive.
If I had to pick it would be 375H&H hands down.
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Old November 19, 2017, 04:43 PM   #74
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4 gun battery is easy and can be many combinations. With what I have now, 243, 6.5x55, 30-06 and I guess throw in a 22 mag. I'm never gonna hunt dangerious game in Africa and not in North America either. For the sake of discussion, Were I to hunt big bears or bad bears, Alaskan Brown or inland Grizzly, I have every faith my 30-06 with a 200gr bullet will do the job as well as anything, maybe better as I would likely shoot it better. My elk rifle is now my 30-06 with 180gr spire points. all the deer and antelope would be easily handled with my 6.5x55 and varmint's and predator's easy with the 243. I haven't hunted small game much in recent years but am sure my 32 Long handgun could handle it with 93gr cast bullet's. But I'd throw in the 22mag or even 22 LR to make 4. So what do I really have? 22 LR I seldom ever shoot, 22 mag I seldom ever shoot, 2-243's, 25-06, 6.5x55, 6.5x06, 2-308's and a 30-06. It would be easy to swap out the 25-06 for the 6.5x55 and I could swap out the 30-06 with the 6.5x06, it's taken two elk with two shots! Then again I could drop everything but the 243 and 30-06 or 6.5x06 and be in good shape.

Somehow I simply can't imagine putting up with more recoil than necessary, to old for that! I'll never hunt Africa and if I did, my 30-06 would handle everything I might want to hunt! Either that or my 6.5x06. Actually my 6.5x55 could also replace my 30-06 but I have one, 30-06 and a beautiful custom so I'll finally use it! Had it since 1995 and this year is the first time I ever took it hunting, one elk down!

What I don't believe make's a good for everything cartridge if you include elk and everything smaller is simply one cartridge. It's my opinion that the jack of all trade's does not exist. But I am absolutely confident I could kill everything up to an elk, make it moose with a 22 LR given my choice of shot! Foolish thing to do just to prove a point!
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Old November 19, 2017, 06:50 PM   #75
agtman
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BRNO 602 in .375 H&H ... see attached pic.
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