338 win mag vs 375 h&h

[agtman]

* * * Regardless which you choose, I highly recommend a muzzle brake. Less recoil means less fatigue, flinches and better shooting.

Can't agree with that.

For the limited amount of shots you'll get to take on game in the field (i.e., when actually out hunting, not shooting at cute pictures of paper animals off a bench), a muzzle break is unnecessary.

Many hunting camps here, and most in Africa, prohibit muzzle breaks on big-bore rifles due to the ear-damaging, lateral concussive blast which these devices are known to inflict on any fellow hunters, guides, and/or PHs standing next to you.

Solution: put your Big-Boy pants on, man-up, get out to the range, and learn to shoot your .338 or .375H&H properly (yeah, I've got a .375 BRNO 602), ... or else limit your hunting to a .22lr for squirrels and such.

[mete]

Recoil - the 375 H&H has higher recoil energy , but lower recoil velocity than the 333WM. High recoil velocity gives a punch rather than a push ! That explains the recoil difference.

[Dranrab]

You are going to love brown bear hunting. I was stationed in Kodiak for 3 years and was able to hunt brown bear there two of those years. I never tagged one, but I have a few very memorable hunts. Heck, just being in the woods with animals that can turn you from the hunter into the hunted is a thrill.

[stagpanther]

Avery, the 12 gauge slug will recoil considerably more.

I've never shot a 12 gauge load that delivers 2.5 tons of muzzle energy--but my 375 ruger can.

[Dranrab]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_r...un_recoil.html

[oldscot3]

I would imagine if you get a brown bear in your crosshairs recoil will be the last thing on your mind.
Just make sure the gun fits you and you have a scope that can be set up properly to afford generous eye relief. Perhaps a 2 x 7 or a 1.5 x 6; most of those can be mounted to give a clear "picture" with plenty of relief.

[ligonierbill]

Measured, objective recoil is one thing, perceived recoil is another. I have never dreaded my .338 WM, although 60 rounds of load workup from the bench can wear a guy out. I did dread sighting in my 870 with Brennke KO slugs. Which one has greater recoil? And which one has a narrow buttstock designed for wingshooting? I certainly wouldn't choose one medium bore over another because of the recoil. They're all going to give a pretty good thump. You make the choice to deal with it when you choose one over, say, a .270.

[kraigwy]

About Muzzle Brakes:

I agree that you wont notice the recoil while shooting at a Brownie

HOWEVER, hopefully that's not the only shot you'll fire out of your kicker.

One needs to shoot it to sight it in, then shoot it a lot more to get proficient and comfortable with what ever you shoot.

Doing that, is going to cause fatigue and more then likely flinching. That will carry forward, whether you like it or not, to you shots at game in the field.

If you dont want to use the brake in the field, fine, take it off, put on a thread cap and problem solved.

The thing is the habits you develop practicing, will carry forward to the field.

You will develop a flinch if you do any shooting at all, a brake will help eliminate that. Its a lot easier to prevent the habit of flinching then curing a flinch.

[Deaf Smith]

how bad is recoil compared to 225 grain 338 win mag or 3.5 inch 12 gauge slug

If we are talking about a 9 lb .338 rifle .vs. a 6 lb 12 gauge, 3 1/2 inch using slugs, single shot I'd say the 12 gauge will be a BEAST you won't want to shoot again.

Deaf

[agtman]

Brakes are only useful when shooting for long periods off the bench, and only then if everyone around you is wearing double ear-protection and standing well back of the shooter.

If you dont want to use the brake in the field, fine, take it off, put on a thread cap, and problem solved.

Not really. You've increased the "problem" of felt-recoil, which is actually less important than the second problem you've just created ...

By removing the brake (and attaching a threaded cap), you've just altered the harmonics of the barrel. That, in turn, will change the POI of the bullet unless you go back to the range and re-zero the rifle for the new POA/POI without the brake attached.

Folks who use suppressors see this POI variance all the time - first shooting a group with the can on, and then shooting a group with the can off. Both times with the same ammo. The POI will change.

The difference in POI can vary from a slight change to a large one, depending on whether the barrel is thin or thick (pencil v. bull), and whether the can is a fast attach unit on a QD mount, or whether it's a thread-on type (e.g., OPS/Allen Eng). In a hunting situation, even a slight change in POI can result in a clean miss if the game is far enough away or moving.

Muzzle brakes are shooting "crutches" with limited use. For hunting applications, most camps won't allow them, nor will some shooting and training schools, at least not without first obtaining special permission.

Word to the wise, my dudenals.

[Dufus]

I've never shot a 12 gauge load that delivers 2.5 tons of muzzle energy--but my 375 ruger can.

The shooter does not feel the muzzle energy unless he is on the wrong end of the gun.

I have shot some 12 ga loads that make you feel as though someone hit you on the shoulder with a sledge.

[Deaf Smith]

I have shot some 12 ga loads that make you feel as though someone hit you on the shoulder with a sledge.

Amen!

I've shot .458 Winchester Magnum rifle (a Ruger 77), 416 Remington, and owned and shot .338 Winchester Magnum. Also shot Mossberg 500 18 inch 12 gauge shotgun with 3 inch magnum buckshot.

I assure you the 12 gauge Mossie hurt much more! I could not even fire all five of the shells I had.

Deaf

[stagpanther]

I have shot some 12 ga loads that make you feel as though someone hit you on the shoulder with a sledge.

Absolutely--I've used an 870 for many years for both high velocity steel turkey loads and slugs for deer; and yes it delivers a sledge hammer to the shoulder. The weight of the gun(s) of course do make a huge difference in felt recoil. When I put a heavy high power load in my 375 ruger--it's a bit like being rear-ended in a car accident if you aren't holding on and pulling in right.

[BBarn]

I'm happy with my 338 Win Mag. Down loaded a bit it still shoots very well and proved quite good for mule deer. Nothing wrong with the 375 H&H, and it's a better choice for big African game.

If I were choosing between them today I'd still choose the 338 unless a hunt in Africa was on the horizon. The difference in recoil between the two is minor and wouldn't affect my choice. The gun particulars will affect perceived recoil much more than the caliber choice in this case.

[T. O'Heir]

If you are hunting deer, anywhere, either one is major overkill. There's no game in North America that requires a magnum of any kind to kill. Including big bears. However, the real issue is how much are you going to practice with cartridges with excessive felt recoil? Plus the ammo is really expensive. .375 H&H starts at $60 per 20 on sale.
A Sako Kodiak with a 21.25" barrel weighs 7.9 pounds.
A 9.0 pound .375 H&H Mag. using a 235 grain bullet at 2700 FPS has 29.5 ft-lbs. of recoil.
An 8.5 pound .338 Win. Mag. using a 225 grain bullet at 2780 FPS has 33.1 ft-lbs. of recoil.
A 7.5 pound 12 gauge, using 1 1/2 ounces of shot or a slug at 1260 FPS has 45.0 ft-lbs.
"....338 WM is a cartridge people love to hate..." Nearly blown off the bench shooting next to a guy with one. But I don't hate the cartridge. Dislike the guys who shoot 'em instead of a cartridge they can shoot.

[Ole 5 hole group]

If you're looking for a thumper and a wake-up call - consider purchasing a 378 Weatherby. Recoil wasn't all that bad 50 years ago but it's a bit much today.

[BBarn]

Yes, the .338 Mag. is overkill for deer. But my son was using my 7mm on the same hunt. The big buck was quartering away @ 350 yards across a canyon. One shot and the buck dropped over dead in a few seconds. As much as I like my .243, I would not have tried that same shot with it due to the angle and distance. It helps greatly when you are confident in the gun, as I was with that light .338 load.

[ligonierbill]

"But I don't hate the cartridge. Dislike the guys who shoot 'em instead of a cartridge they can shoot."

Ah, so it's not the cartridge at all, it's those who shoot it! I have noticed that there are no new magnums. I guess that's why. Everyone is switching from magnums to .338 and .375 Rugers. From 7mm Remington or Weatherby magnums to 280 Nosler. Aren't they?

[RC20]

Its a bit silly to say you have to do one or the other and can't do both.

Frankly there is more POI when you are in any other position other than on a bench than a Brake is going to cause. Barrel harmonics change with the position.

That said, you range, sight in with the brake, then take it off and shoot a confirmation shot (or two or three)

Done deal, go hunting.

I don't like brakes at the range and feel they should be isolated. That does not mean they aren't a help nor that they can be managed to best advantage.

As I get older I get tired easier and in my case have gone to 1 inch recoil pads.

At the end of a days shooting and 150-250 rounds I am still beat.

[agtman]

At the end of a days shooting and 150-250 rounds I am still beat.

On hearing a similar comment, a smart dudenal once replied: "Grow stronger."

[odette]

my choice is 375 H&H. I have a pre 64 that is a tack driver with 270 gr and 300 gr bullets. I know it is overkill on deer, but I have used it on prairie dogs at 350 yds just for fun. A guide friend HAD a 338 WM and his client had a 300 WM on a bear hunt. 1st shot was at 200 yds in the heart and the bear covered 190 yds before it finally dropped. Both rifles were emptied into the bear as it charged. Both guide and hunter stained their pants and my guide friend said it was his last bear hunt.

[Slamfire]

Well I have two 35 Whelen's and one 375 H&H. The 375 H&H is an awesome rifle, only shot it out to 200 yards but it was accurate. It is a bit heavy and the amount of powder that goes into a case will eat up a pound of powder quickly.

How about a nice 35 Whelen? It will do everything you want and in a lighter rifle. Remington made a limited run of M700 35 Whelen's in 2016, the rifle has a 24" barrel and a nice and thick buttpad. The cartridge is typically loaded with a 250 or 225 grain bullet, older ammunition had 275 grain bullets. Either will make a big through hole in everything on the North American Continent.

https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/gu...whelen-review/

[briandg]

From a person with no experience but a little wisdom, of course the .375 will properly kill anything up to rhino, but even that monster of a gun has limitations.

The .375 has the best BC of any caliber and can give a flatter trajectory if you want a 300 shooter. I believe that it is unnecessarily powerful for anything but the biggest bear in anything but absolute emergency. The .338 is capable of whacking big stuff, it's even used in Africa for non dangerous game.

Maybe the .416 would be a very good choice but distance may be less than ideal.

It seems to me, though, that you want the most powerful belted magnum you can buy, since you are even considering the .460. Do you know that you could line up three various and punch through all of them, or even two or three big bear? Can you control it for a second round if you just blow a leg off and fail to stop the charge?

The .460 is not a good choice. At one time the park service issued .375 rifles for hunting rogue grizzlies.

Think about A Square. You might get in for less than 3,000bucks, about the same price as a weatherby. You can maybe find a m70 for about half.

[briandg]

The .35 whelen is a powerful round but maybe minimal for dropping a charging, gigantic, raging, testosterone and adrenaline juiced bear?

Offhand, though, I think that it would be adequate.

[dgludwig]

what would be a good rifle to have it in that is stainless steel with open sights and a plus would be controlled round feed

If they still make it, the Savage Model 116 SE (Safari Express) meets all of your wishes, plus it came with a muzzle brake that can be turned on (for range shooting) or off (for hunting). Mine is chambered in .338 Magnum and it has proven to be a durable, reliable and accurate rifle.