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Old December 7, 2017, 10:47 AM   #1
Lohman446
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Are all of your carry magazines loaded the same?

Having grudgingly accepted the logic of carrying a G19 and a couple spare magazines a thought has occurred to me: Do you carry consistent ammunition in all three magazines?

I'm comfortable with Federal HST 124 grain ammunition as my "common" load and would carry this both in the magazine in the firearm and the "first out" reload.

But I have been mulling over the situations in which I would need to be able to get to the third magazine and still be "upright" and able to do it. Virtually every one of these situations involve cover. I am toying with the idea of loading the last magazine with Underwood Extreme Penetrator. Yeh I know different ammunition might handle differently but it will also perform differently. Assume the same function testing as with the Federal and maintaining proficiency with the particular load.

Of course this does go against my current "keep it simple" theory that I have been trying to impart in my daily activities.

Thoughts?
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Old December 7, 2017, 11:35 AM   #2
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When considering handgun ammo selection I have 2 basic thoughts.
1. I want the ammo to be measurably reliable in my firearm
2. I want the projectile to be a JHP for obvious reasons

I will not venture into the fantastical or outlandish possible scenarios where I might need this variant projectile or that. My EDC will be loaded with the same ammo and any extra magazine that may have on my person will also be loaded the same.

If a person wans to debate the merits of varying styles of projectiles when used in long distance rifle shots.. I think that is perfectly reasonable. When applying the same consideration to handgun ammo seems rather needless. Handguns by their very nature are rather minimal weapons at best and not really something to over intellectualize.
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Old December 7, 2017, 11:42 AM   #3
Lohman446
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Quote:
Handguns by their very nature are rather minimal weapons at best and not really something to over intellectualize.
Please remember I am smiling when I write this and no insult is intended.

I appreciate your post and find great amusement in this line. Not because you are wrong but because I have to ask this question:

New to this forum huh?

And I realize you are not but isn't that basically what we do on this forum sometimes investing hours into such intellectual discussion that has minimal practical application.
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Old December 7, 2017, 12:29 PM   #4
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I carry the same ammunition in all magazines.
Keep in mind that handgun ammunition does not penetrate semi hard cover for beans. I had a chance to look over an S10 pickup used in a Bank Robbery in Arkansas. Two patrolman were just down the street from the bank when the robbery alarm went out.
One patrolman on each side of the street, one with a 9mm and the other with a 40 S&W when the S10 was making it's get away. The S10 was hit 5 or 6 times in the doors, 1 Tire shot down, Radiator hit, a Couple in the bed and a tail light hit. No rounds went through the doors on an S10.
Shoot proficiently, and carry quality ammunition that Law Enforcement carries. That will be about as good as it gets.

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Old December 7, 2017, 03:26 PM   #5
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I find it difficult to imagine that anyone can anticipate what change in ammo they are going to require after 10, 15, or 30 rounds are expended.
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Old December 7, 2017, 04:19 PM   #6
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Personally, only two situations come to mind where a second type of ammo may be warranted.

1) Around the farm. I won't waste my pricey HP ammo on varmints, so I'll swap a mag of FMJ in. The 'coon, coyote, or fox won't know the difference.

2) My standard carry ammo is failing to penetrate a barrier that
( hypothetically) needs punched. Given that handguns are not known for great penetration ( even with FMJ), and there may be legal implications to firing upon someone who has taken cover, I just can't envision a situation where a backup magazine of FMJ would prove useful.

I've known others to carry one magazine of FMJ or Extreme Penetrater ammo, but don't myself.
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Old December 7, 2017, 04:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
isn't that basically what we do on this forum sometimes investing hours into such intellectual discussion that has minimal practical application.
...not really

Minimal practical application or not, there can be reasonable and less reasonable considerations. Some issues may be a little counterintuitive given the specific context. I think loading a handgun mag with alternating ammo types or one mag with this ammo and one mag with that ammo begins to venture into the less reasonable category. That's just me.

I think the question of ammo type/style/ weight/ composition or special feature can become more and more reasonable with the increase in task complexity. If you want to shoot an elk at 900 yards, the consideration of projectile type becomes a little more germane.
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Old December 7, 2017, 04:44 PM   #8
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No, they are not. I have my magazines for my glock, my only real concern for this question with whatever I have handy. The main load is currently sig v crown 125. It's what I haul around whenever I haul around the glock. The remaining magazines are not loaded the same way, I'm pretty sure. I have silvertip, hornady, and a few others that are reliable ammo that I have purchased and have remainders of. wherever I am when I strip a magazine, if I have any sort of reason to do so, I'll put in whatever is handy.

for example, the last time I went shooting, I dumped the rounds in the two mags I was planning on shooting with into a pouch. The one in the gun remained loaded and was put back.

When I arrived home, I forgot the pouch upstairs when I went down to my gun room. So, rather than waste effort going and getting the ammo that was in the magazine, I loaded it from a box that I had where I was. Whatever it was, it may have been two different loads, but each magazine got a full measure of one round. so If I had two boxes with only twenty or so in each box, each magazine had a different load, maybe all three did. When I got the pouch downstairs later, who knows how much later, the rounds there went back into the original boxes. in fact, they may have gone into the very same boxes I replaced them with.

Since all of my revolver ammo and also semiauto ammo shoot to a reliable and pretty similar point of impact I'm not at any handicap. Everything I shoot will go into a point within a few inches, say maybe four, of point of aim. so when I shoot for the heart, well, it may hit the heart and it may hit an artery, a lung, or other organ.

I'm not even going to pretend that I'm so darned good that this is going to make a difference. I won't pretend that my shot will be so precise and clean that the actual point of impact being off a few inches will matter.

It has been well established that people miss during gunfights, and seriously, that happens no matter where the poi is set.

If this was an issue, it would be a certain death sentence to carry a gun around that had fixed sights.
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Old December 7, 2017, 04:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
No, they are not. I have my magazines for my glock, my only real concern for this question with whatever I have handy. The main load is currently sig v crown 125. It's what I haul around whenever I haul around the glock. The remaining magazines are not loaded the same way, I'm pretty sure. I have silvertip, hornady, and a few others that are reliable ammo that I have purchased and have remainders of. wherever I am when I strip a magazine, if I have any sort of reason to do so, I'll put in whatever is handy.
Since you are not formulating or concocting some sort of ammo recipe.. my earlier comments are not directed at you. I see where you are coming from.
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Old December 8, 2017, 01:05 AM   #10
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A guy I talked to not long after the Miami event had some queer ideas. He alternated two 115 and one 147. He could count his rounds that way and not worry about having the wrong ammo. He wanted to load tracers in the last three so he would know when he was running out. He was thinking about putting a couple 147 fmj in there in case he couldn't get the hollow points to penetrate. I think that he should have spent more time training and less time stressing out. I pointed out that none of this helped if he missed...
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Old December 8, 2017, 12:40 PM   #11
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Yep... that is exactly the kind of nonsense that I was directing my comment at. I think that the more training a person has, the less they subscribe to "armchair" logic.

I would not totally dismiss the tracer thing but its use would be so narrow that near any citizen application would be unrealistic.
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Old December 8, 2017, 12:50 PM   #12
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Same ammo for SD carry. It may be that you reload proactively after you think the fight is over, top off or in case of a malfunction.
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Old December 8, 2017, 01:34 PM   #13
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Forged, a lot of people spend lifetimes trying to prove to both themselves and others how clever they are. Some truly rube Goldberg ideas come of it. Many of these ideas work only in the mind of the creator. Haven't millions of people spent lifetimes trying to improve the mousetrap?

A guy I knew drove a 1960s dodge 440 4wd behemoth. He bought replacement carb needles to increase gas mileage, and kept the power needles in the truck in case he needed more power when he was out driving.

There are probably huge numbers of people who play that very game, carrying various kinds of ammo to fit various situations. They just don't think about the fact that making the accurate hit is the absolute top concern, that the ammunition is way down the list.

It could get one killed. Hesitate to decide which magazine to use, replacing one during a conflict, doing something like this would be a possibly lethal distraction, right?
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Old December 8, 2017, 02:08 PM   #14
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I agree.. I think you are spot on with the "look at how clever I am" sentiment

Speed, proficiency and clear deliberateness of action is probably much more contributory toward success than ammo type.

When I say speed.. I am not referring solely to speed of draw but rather the speed in which you realize danger, process the circumstances , make a decision on what to do and initiate it. Proficiency being that you can get your gun into action and hit the target. Deliberateness of action is simply being resolute in what you are doing and acting without emotional or moral conflict.
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Old December 8, 2017, 02:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
When I say speed.. I am not referring solely to speed of draw but rather the speed in which you realize danger, process the circumstances , make a decision on what to do and initiate it. Proficiency being that you can get your gun into action and hit the target. Deliberateness of action is simply being resolute in what you are doing and acting without emotional or moral conflict.
quite well said. hesitation is dangerous in many situations, not just armed combat. the video showed decisive and proactive action, he didn't holler "DROP THE GUNS!' and wait for them to comply.

being emotionally ready is something a lot of people forget to do. "oh, can I really shoot that rabid dog?" what will the police think? does he really deserve to be shot just because he pointed a gun at me and threatened to kill me?

situations like this call for good judgement above all else, but they also call for quick decision making. A person can learn good judgment here and in other places like police shooting files, but there is also a great deal of mall ninja garbage out there that has to be winnowed out. Police are trained day after day and live from daily experience how to deal with dangerous situations. when to hesitate, how to de escalate, when to go full throttle. as a group, shooters tend to not think too much, they believe that their will be no ambiguities or confusing details. If a person hunts deer and can't even put a bullet into a deer it's probably a good indication that a $50,000 bet on the bad guy would buy a whole lot of ammo. It's not entirely a bad thing to listen to the endless debates over equipment, it encourages some people to think. listening to the talk about shootings and tactics can support good decision making.
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Old December 8, 2017, 03:06 PM   #16
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Some folks who carry revolvers carry a different reload that is more pointed or round to facilitate loading under stress. I wouldn't want to try to load wadcutters or a round like the Federal .38 +P 130 grain HST in a hurry.
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Old December 8, 2017, 10:31 PM   #17
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Good idea.
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Old December 9, 2017, 06:11 AM   #18
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Nope all mags for a given gun are loaded with that guns preferred ammo.
If Mr. BG is behind cover that's my que to retreat.
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Old December 9, 2017, 12:24 PM   #19
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"...loading the last magazine with..." If you can't fix whatever mess you got into with one mag, you're in waaaay over your head. A second or third mag is not going to make any difference.
You are not going into combat. Nor are you fighting crime.
"...quality ammunition that Law Enforcement carries..." Ammo is sold to 'em by the highest bidder. Isn't necessarily "quality". Most cops never practice with or even fire their issue firearm anyway.
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Old December 9, 2017, 01:01 PM   #20
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Lohman I load all my carry magazines the same... unless I don't.

I have a few HST rounds in my backup mag for my primary EDC. I generally carry Hornady XTP, but I also like the Critical Defense or Critical Duty. I bought a bunch of the HST and I haven't found much difference in the way it shoots so am adding it to the mix. I don't mix the ammo in my handgun, but I don't worry about it in the backup as long as it has passed my tests.
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Old December 9, 2017, 06:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
If you can't fix whatever mess you got into with one mag, you're in waaaay over your head. A second or third mag is not going to make any difference.
You are not going into combat. Nor are you fighting crime.
"...quality ammunition that Law Enforcement carries..." Ammo is sold to 'em by the highest bidder. Isn't necessarily "quality". Most cops never practice with or even fire their issue firearm anyway.
a gun fight is a gun fight.. fighting is combat by it very nature. Fighting crime or not, ...the sentiment make no difference toward winning or losing. One could argue that if you are defending yourself from an unlawful attack, you are fighting crime. I get you meaning though, and you are right.. I am no crime fighter.

As far as ammo goes, the next bullet out the barrel may be the one that saves you if the last one didn't. Carrying an extra mag may not always be about ammo, it may be about a stoppage via magazine defect. One good way to remedy that sort of stoppage is to simply ditch the mag for another.

To say that extra ammo cant or wont matter is just plain silly
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Old December 9, 2017, 09:20 PM   #22
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I once read a post from a guy who loaded magazines with ammo based on the bullets with his "long range" load first and "close up" load last, based on the idea that the BG is approaching him. How silly is it possible to get?

Jim
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Old December 9, 2017, 10:15 PM   #23
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There are some silly ideas out there Jim. A couple of my favorites are that if you need a reload you're done anyway and just having a gun is good enough. Maybe the silliest (and most dangerous) I know of personally is a family member who is absolutely not going to shoot anyone, but carries a gun to "scare them off." He also uses that to rationalize his lack of training and skill. I guess in all of these it makes little difference what you have in a second magazine.
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Old December 11, 2017, 09:34 PM   #24
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Yes. They're usually all loaded with the same load. But I trust 3 different ones the most.

I have Corbon DPX 9mm 115gr +P in all the magazines for my wifes Glock 17.

Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ in all the magazines for my HK USP 9 Compact.

Federal HST 124gr in all the magazines for the M&P 9L and 2.0 Compact.

I've seen guys load up the "salad" magazines. Those are scary....
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Old December 12, 2017, 10:04 AM   #25
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Up until last month I had Winchester Defend 147s in my Glock 19, and Speer Gold Dots in my 2 reloads.

This because I didn't have enough of either load to fully fill with just 1.

They were also the only loads I'd tested with my gun.

Then I arranged a group buy of HST 124s at work and filled everything with that.
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