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Old October 16, 2017, 05:52 AM   #1
OhioGuy
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"Enhanced" CCW?

Has anyone heard of this? Anyone here live in Arkansas?

http://www.thv11.com/news/local/arka...-law/483573417

"Enhanced" CCW allowing permit holders to carry in otherwise restricted areas, so long as they pass "enhanced" training and testing (yet to be defined, but according to this article, including stuff like "Mass shooting response" and "marksmanship."

Is this a good idea? A bad idea? Irrelevant?

Is it a good step toward gaining CCW access more broadly?

And is there value in tying "better" training to widespread carry?

There's already a thread on preparedness, so I'm not trying to repeat that again. Just wondering whether anyone sees actual value in this, or whether it's just a political half-measure, etc?

Also, any context or backstory would be interesting from anyone who knows how this came about, who's backing it, what launched it, etc.
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Old October 16, 2017, 07:14 AM   #2
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I might "take the test" but I certainly wouldn't up for "sheep dog duty".
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Old October 16, 2017, 07:14 AM   #3
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Sounds like a good way to get yourself shot by another friendly. I'm not saying I have all the anwsers but if this is such a great idea why not just make it part of the regular ccw and go forward from their?
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Old October 16, 2017, 08:55 AM   #4
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I'm not saying I have all the anwsers but if this is such a great idea why not just make it part of the regular ccw and go forward from their?
Are you suggesting that all Arkansas citizens who apply for a CCW permit be required to take the additional training before issuance?

I don't live in Arkansas, but I would not embrace that idea.
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Old October 16, 2017, 08:58 AM   #5
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I'm guessing this is a sort of compromise position, hoping to get CCW allowed in more areas.
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Old October 16, 2017, 08:58 AM   #6
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Enhanced permits often increase reciprocity, particularly in states with low training requirements, or no legislated requirements.
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Old October 16, 2017, 09:05 AM   #7
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MS has an Enhanced Permit in addition to a regular permit. Regular CCW permit does not require any training. Enhanced Permit requires 8 hours of training under a certified instructor. Having a MS Enhanced Permit allows carry in many places that are off limits to normal carriers. Additionally, as stated earlier, the number of reciprocal states is greater with the Enhanced Permit as opposed to the regular permit.
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Old October 16, 2017, 02:58 PM   #8
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Old October 16, 2017, 03:41 PM   #9
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Enhanced permits often increase reciprocity, particularly in states with low training requirements, or no legislated requirements.
Exactly. I'm from Idaho and they have an enhanced CCW as well (which I have). Standard ID CCW (resident) is accepted in 31 states. Enhanced is accepted in 38 states. But it doesn't allow you to carry in what is otherwise considered restricted like the beginning of the thread is talking about.
The main kicker is the standard CCW is sometimes waived for prior MIL/LE individuals with proof of firearms training (well, any ID resident can conceal carry without a permit now in state lines). You HAVE to take the class for enhanced if you want the enhanced, no matter your history. I think the class and shooting is longer too, but haven't really compared to the two side by side. This makes other states more comfortable the CCW holder is getting the same level of CCW training their state offers.
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Old October 16, 2017, 07:31 PM   #10
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Useless idea.
Requiring training to exercise ones RTKABA is as infringing as the permits themselves.

Paying for a permit to do what the 2A guarantees a right to do is bad enough. Adding more requirements is just more slaps in the face.
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Old October 16, 2017, 07:43 PM   #11
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Useless idea.
Requiring training to exercise ones RTKABA is as infringing as the permits themselves.

Paying for a permit to do what the 2A guarantees a right to do is bad enough. Adding more requirements is just more slaps in the face.

If Congress passed a law requiring every able bodied citizen to receive firearm safety and use training, would that be a slap in the face to the 2nd Amendment?
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Old October 16, 2017, 11:55 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 2damnold4this View Post
If Congress passed a law requiring every able bodied citizen to receive firearm safety and use training, would that be a slap in the face to the 2nd Amendment?
Yep.
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Old October 17, 2017, 05:00 AM   #13
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I have to think of the number of non-shooters that I've known personally and those that I've heard of, that once they'd been introduced to shooting and touched off a few rounds, became enthusiasts.
I also have to think of the fact that familiarity quells fear.

Not so sure that it would be a bad idea if use and safety training were required... just sayin.
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Old October 17, 2017, 07:51 AM   #14
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The most dangerous people I have ever seen is a novice with a new pistol show up to a CCW class. I do not want them shooting anywhere around me outside the controlled range environment. To require some standards before allowing people to carry in large crowds seems like a good idea.
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Old October 17, 2017, 08:11 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
The most dangerous people I have ever seen is a novice with a new pistol show up to a CCW class. I do not want them shooting anywhere around me outside the controlled range environment. To require some standards before allowing people to carry in large crowds seems like a good idea.
When the wife and I took ours, it was a twelve hours course including shooting test. I regret that the standards have been lightened up since then.
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Old October 17, 2017, 08:22 AM   #16
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When the wife and I took ours, it was a twelve hours course including shooting test. I regret that the standards have been lightened up since then.
Consider this, most cops get about 40 hours of shooting training, not just use of force etc. AND still miss 80% on average.
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Old October 17, 2017, 08:26 AM   #17
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My state doesn't require any specific training for a LTC, but I made sure to go to a local range run by former LE people to learn from them. They were, and continue to be, a big help.
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Old October 17, 2017, 08:48 AM   #18
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I just went on a search mission that took longer than it should have... the Arkansas legislature's official page about the bill doesn't actually have the text of the bill, which seems counterproductive, and it took a while to find it.

This is, as far as I can tell, the version the Governor signed into law:

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assemb...meo2PqvxhGpTYn

Courtrooms, pre-K and K-12 schools, any Corrections or prison facility, liquor stores, and any place with a "no weapons" sign are still prohibited areas.

The changes appear to primarily affect college campuses:

You can carry on some college properties (unless signed as prohibited)

Colleges can't make carrying a gun mandatory for employment unless it's part of your job description.

You can't claim Workman's Comp if you hurt yourself with your gun.

You can't open carry on college property.

Colleges can't be sued or not sued if you use or don't use your gun.


The "effective date" was September 1, 2017, but the Arkansas State Police (the licensing body) has nothing about it on their web site yet.
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Old October 17, 2017, 11:42 AM   #19
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Sounds decidedly like something an unelected civil servants would come up with to help divide shooters.
"...the 2A guarantees..." It says nothing at all about concealed firearms.
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Old October 18, 2017, 06:44 AM   #20
Don P
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Quote:
Are you suggesting that all Arkansas citizens who apply for a CCW permit be required to take the additional training before issuance?
If I remember correctly some states have a "enhanced" CCW allowing one to carry where folks with the standard CCW cannot. I believe MS and LA have such programs. I tried to get info on this when the wife and I were traveling being that I am a NRA certified instructor, would it cover me for the additional training allowing me the "enhanced" privilege.
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Old October 26, 2017, 02:05 PM   #21
TRX
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Some states won't recognize other state's permits unless they meet their own standards for hours of training, range time, etc.

So other states offer "enhanced" permits which require extra training, which are primarily useful for reciprocity with more-stringent states.

The Arkansas thing is mostly about campus carry. College properties including parking lots, farms, office buildings, sports venues, etc. are *also* prohibited areas in Arkansas, not just the campuses themselves. And a lot of those properties aren't marked in any way, nor do they have to be. I got warned about that by my CHCL instructor.

Personally, unless the enhanced permit is some nominal charge on top of my renewal, I'm not going to bother; the additional carry areas aren't anywhere I need or want to go. But for people who do have to go those places periodically, it would save a lot of hassle.
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Old October 26, 2017, 02:11 PM   #22
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Instead of more advanced training, just skip to testing standards. There definitely should be a hey, it’s a free country level of ccw. Not sure why, but if a higher level is required to carry in a school or on a train, then separate by testing. I’ll train myself....or pay to get trained right. You,state, just tell me the requirement and test me.....and so you don’t get embarrassed, make sure Leo can pass it to ccw also!
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Old October 26, 2017, 04:55 PM   #23
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While I'm a Texican, yea if they allow out-of-state CCW to take the test I might to.

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