Over-The-Top ParaMilitary MindSet?

[Sparks2112]

In general the para military types are sort of, funny...

That having been said.

You're applying your broad personal experiences to EVERYONE in a blanket statement. Sometimes 8 rounds isn't enough, sometimes you need a 2nd gun (not to mention the first one), sometimes you're young and live in an area that most WOULD consider a war zone because that's all you can afford.

Everybody is different. Which I think is a good thing to try and remember.

[ISC]

I've got mixed feelings about this thread. I am a former LEO, former active duty military, and am currently an infantryman in the Army National Guard awaiting deployment to a war zone, and I get fed up by some of the over the top wannabe posing mentioned by the OP too.

I also recognize that it is easy to imagine the combination of circumstances that could lead to many men who have never served in the military or law enforcemet to be called on to fulfill their responsibilities as a member of the militia in the same way that many of our forefathers have.

I think that one is wise to prepare for a worst case scenario, whether that might be a natural disaster, personal emergency, or general breakdown in society.

There is a huge difference between being prepared for emergency and living as though we are in a state of emergency. The former is common sense, the latter is paranoia.

[Delaware_Dan]

The people he is talking about know who they are, and if it's not you, don't worry about it.

[alloy]

and i thought 3.61 posts a day was probably a bit extreme.
will there be a quiz?

[01Apache]

That's funny! Before I joined this forum I had never heard of "mall ninjas".

[Creature]

He said paramilitary....

I dont think he was whining about mall ninjas. I think he was alluding more towards MALL COPS:

[Brian Pfleuger]

and i thought 3.61 posts a day was probably a bit extreme.

3.62 now!

and mine's like 7.27!

[01Apache]

OK, help me on this; I thought mall ninjas WERE mall cops? No offense to any mall cops intended.

[buzz_knox]

The people he is talking about know who they are, and if it's not you, don't worry about it.

He painted with such a broad brush that anyone who carries a Condition 1 1911 with an eight round mag is covered, let alone any who carries a Glock 9mm, a backup, etc.

[Creature]

OK, help me on this; I thought mall ninjas WERE mall cops? No offense to any mall cops intended.

In the beginning, the two were one...but as the ages passed, mall ninjas have split away from their brethren and grown into a shadowy bunch...on the fringes of polite society and more deeply into the mysterious martial arts:

Mall ninja:


Mall cop:

[KLRANGL]

He painted with such a broad brush that anyone who carries a Condition 1 1911 with an eight round mag is covered, let alone any who carries a Glock 9mm, a backup, etc.

Exactly... not to mention that, while we all dislike the mall ninja types, its not for us to go on a tirade about how stupid they are. To each their own...

[01Apache]

Got it; thanks Creature.

[Mannlicher]

MaxHeadSpace

Seriously, I'm not trolling. Or maybe I am . . .

Yep, my first thought was that you were being just another know it all troll. Boy was I wrong. I am just so glad you cleared all that up for me. Its comforting to know that when there is a question, one of our expert members will give us the final word.

[scorpion_tyr]

"The CCW DOES NOT make you some sort of 'Law Enforcement' anything in any sense whatever. Get that notion out of your head, right here, right now."

Absolutely right. Don't overstep your bounds as a civilian, let LE do their job.

A "weapon" is what you have when YOUR "primary mission" (e.g. you're on the payroll or active duty) is strategic defense of the nation or the protection, service, and preservation of law and order in the community.

Are you saying a firearm in the hands of anyone besides active duty military or law enforcement is not a weapon? Are you serious? Webster defines a weapon as an "Instrument used in fighting or hunting". I define it as anything that be used to intentionally cause bodily harm to another. Rock, pencile, firearm, ICBM, etc. If a firearm is not a weapon, what is it?

The "tactical tool belt" . . . what do you carry? C'mon here. I don't need a shelter-half, poncho, mess kit, entrenching tool, and Alice pack to get into the Subaru and run down to the corner grocery for a short-case and chips. We're NOT living in a war zone, and running to the store is NOT a tactical manoeuvre.

Please realize that many of the members here do not reside within the United States. Many are from countries where they very well may be in a war zone. And in some neighborhoods, running to the store IS a tactical maneuver. Everywhere I go, anything I do, I think about it with a tactical mind. And yes, that's on duty and off for me. There's nothing wrong with that, it's called being prepared, having a plan, expecting the unexpected, etc.

I don't sleep with my "weapon" under my pillow. I didn't sleep with my weapon under my pillow when I was on active duty and in a war zone. I did park my weapon outside the showers while I was in the same war zone. It was within arm's reach while sitting on the commode.

Very good. Anyone who sleeps with a weapon under their pillow is asking to have an accident. I always suggest keeping the weapon just out of reach from the bed. That prevents all sorts of bad things. Only question is what kind of weapon did you have that you had to "park"?!

But we're not in a war zone now. This is civilization, and you're probably not going to run over an IED while on your way to the grocery in your Subaru to get chips and a brewski.

Already answered, but I drive a Jeep and I don't drink beer.

It's 1:00 PM. It's not 1300 HRS.

It's December 18, 2008, not 18 Dec. '08.

I got news for you, 1:00 PM is indeed 1300 HRS. 18 Dec 08 is indeed December 18, 2008. The only difference is how people say/write/type it. It's all a matter of personal preference. I don't recall reading any forum rules about time/date display. If it becomes confusing for you just subtract 12 from any time that has 13 or greater as the first two digits. Then add PM to it and you have your time.

Bug Out Bags are for bugs. Tinfoil hats are for wannabees with bug out bags.

Bug Out Bags are for anyone who may have to "bug out". That includes anyone who lives in an area where they may have to quickly evacuate because of tornadoes, fires, hurricanes, flash floods, ice storms, loss of electricity, sand storms, hostile invasion forces, etc. I think at least one of these would apply to just about everyone on the planet. If you're talking about the actual Bug Out Bag, they are for anyone who wishes to pay $69.99 for them. Their sale is not restricted in the US.

I don't carry a "back-up weapon." Hell, I don't think I've carried a primary CCW in the past six months, despite having permits in two states. Six decades and I've never been mugged, hijacked, robbed, burgled . . . I've never found myself in a situation where I was wanting for "enough gun."

Congratulations on living in a nice town/neighborhood and/or being lucky for 60 years. Many are not so fortunate. I'm only 25 years old, I have been robbed, beat up, stabbed, and spit on. I've also been faced with deadly force three times in my life. I'm still here. Did I have a gun in those three situations? No, I did not. Do I wish I had been carrying? In 2/3 of those yes I do. It would have saved a lot of time and risk. Also, I would love to know where you got your crystal ball. I've been looking for one that is as accurate as yours must be to have so much confidence those things will never happen to you.

Eight rounds IS enough. If it's not, you're someplace you have no business being. I'm fine with five rounds.

Yes it is, until you are attacked by nine or more people. Or you miss one or more times, or one round isn't enough to stop one or more of them. As for being someplace one has no business... My business takes me to many "bad places". Many other members here are in the same boat. I live in a bad neighborhood? Do I have no business to protect my home if faced by a threat where eight rounds is not enough? Eight rounds is enough... for your average threat. It is not enough for people who are minding their own business in a nice part of town and suddenly find themselves the target of a dozen or more angry rioting people. And oh yes, that has happened, does happen, and will happen again.

I don't "secure the perimter" or "shut down" before I head off to bed. And it's a "bed" -- not a "rack."

So you don't lock your doors and take a last look outside before you go to bed? You get to sleep in a bed, some do not. Some people might have nothing more than a "rack". Congratulations once again on your prosperous life and your nice neighborhood.

OK, yes . . . When I'm out "in the field" . . . camping, kayaking, hiking or whatever, I carry a defensive firearm. I generally have a long-gun for backup in the car. (And it's a "car" . . . not a "vehicle" or "POV.") If I have a knife, it's designed to cut and carve, not stab and slash.

That's nice. I'm sorry to hear your car lacks the means to transport or carry something. I'm also sorry to hear you do not own your car, that it's not your personal property. I'm also sorry to hear that you bought a very small and useless knife.

Bottom line here, LEO and active duty excepted: You're NOT in the military. You're not "on the force." And this ain't no war zone. Stand down for gawd's sake!

I got news for ya pal. When I'm in uniform, when I'm carrying my issued sidearm I guess I'm on this "force" that you speak of. When I'm in blue jeans and a t-shirt at Wal-Mart, or when I'm in my boxer briefs at home watching HBO, I am not. I have no more power or authority than any other civilian. Either way I have just as much right to defend my life, my loved ones, and my home from any threat that I feel potentially theatened by. I have never run across anyone on this thread who claimed to be in the military and was not.

Many of the terms you described above are used out of personal preference or they are used to more acurately and/or easily describe something. And why should they conform to your standards? Don't they have a left... oops I mean a right to say what they want, how they want... I think it comes right before that other right that seems to be a big hit on this sight.

You obviously have led, and expect to continue living a very safe, happy life in a completely crime-free area. Many of the members here, including myself do not have that luxury. What your personal situation calls for when it comes to firearms is never the same as someone else. I do fall under your "exception clause", except I don't want to. What gives me the right to say 1300 while others can not? I took an oath to defend some rights a while back. Since your a member of this forum I assume you're a fan of one of them, here's a hint. It's called the Second Amendment. Here's another hint... there's one right before it. It's called the First Amendment. Look it up.

There are countries out there that are indeed war zones. I'm willing to bet that out of 62,000 members there are some who reside in those countries. No, the United States is not a war zone. It is not because we have the legal right to carry whatever kind of weapon, and as many of them as we want. There are many neighborhoods inside the US that could very well be described as war zones. Don't believe me? Shreveport, LA. Go stand on the corner of Lakeshore and Jewella after the sun goes down. If you choose to do so, the chances of your five, or even eight bullets being enough are very very slim.

Thank you for your post, and for using that right that I'm afraid you are unaware of. There were some things I agreed with you on, and many I did not. I do hope that you live the rest of your days without regretting your ignorance.

[12GaugeShuggoth]

+1 to scorpion_tyr. While it may be nice that the OP has not been the victim of a violent act in his 6 decades, not everyone is so fortunate.

[MaxHeadSpace]

Nearly 500 views in about six hours. It seems to me the purpose of a forum (Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not without an opinion.) is to prompt some thought and some posts.

I could have posted:

"Golly gee! Them bullets sure do go fast!"

And the thread would never get off the ground. Much more fun to twist the panties up into a tight bunch and then YANK them into a wedgie!



I don't disagree with most of these posts. "Subaru" because I was too lazy to look up the spelling of "Hyundai".

I don't lock the doors at night, or look out the windows. The dog barks if she hears deer in the yard, or elk, cougar . . . There's no crime out here because the criminals can't seem to get their act together to get out here. Besides which, they realize there's a gun behind every window.


My other ride is a John Deere.

[Dwight55]

I am personally glad the OP lives in such a wonderful world where his words and events can be so eloquently parted, combed, sprayed, and brushed up to his choosing.

My world is not like that, . . . and if describing my world, . . . the events that go on, . . . the tactics & lessons learned, . . . can be very well understood in military or LEO jargon, . . . then maybe that is well called for. After all, . . . is not the major design of language being that it is an understanding between the conversing parties?

Methinks the OP needs to get his wedgie undone, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

[w_houle]

Wow Max, did you read some old posts by Gecko45 somewhere?

[David Armstrong]

Good post, Max. The really sad (interesting?) thing is that this forum is actually one of the BETTER forums about thi sstuff. IMO it is much like the days when you used to sit around dreaming about making the winning touchdown for the home team when you were a 3rd string scrub, or taking the head cheerleader to the prom when you were the class geek, or so on. Those that have done it know that it isn't all its cracked up to be, and so they might look at life a little more reasonably and realistically. Some might actually think they will have the chance (not mention need and ability) to use 3 magazines with 45 rounds and the BUG to save the day. Some know better. But it really doesn't hurt anything to dream. After all, the cheerleader has to go to the prom with somebody!

[protectedbyglock]

Ha ha. Funny stuff.

I don't think the OP (correct me if I'm wrong, max) is intending at all to say that there's anything wrong with talking about LE or Military related tactics, etc. in the appropriate context. I also don't think he's anti free speech.
I think all he's saying is that these crazy mall ninja types are rediculous. 99% of the time, I don't think people are coming on here to get tactical advice because they live in a bad neighborhood. I've been in a lot of bad neighborhoods, lived in projects, etc, and I've never seen anyone with a tactical belt. (it makes me laugh just saying it).
However, I bet the OP HAS seen real life idiots in his hometown, bowie knives tied to their thighs... 2 hi-points on either hip....spouting off lines from Rambo: First Blood: Part 2.
No part of the OPs post was anti-LE or anti-Mil or anti anything other than anti crazy, over-the-top, wanna-be Army Seal.

HOWEVER, I will say that I sometimes get a good laugh from these guys. Especially when they end up with the cheerleader 25years down the road after she's been with everybody else....
Man, I'm cold...

[Jermtheory]

Who is far more annoying imo?...

The clowns who have a CCP and/or firearms for home defense who then act as if they will never actually need to use it.They dont bother to carry their CCW half the time and their HD gun is probably locked up in a safe somewhere.They're sure that they'll be able to dispatch(does that word bother anyone?) any threat with their 3" J-frame,which they'll obviously have on them when needed.

Which is all fine and good...

Until they start acting as if those who take a more prepared(ntm logically consistent) approach are somehow mentally ill...Or little boys playing soldier/cop.:barf:

I dont know why any of these types even bother to own a firearm for SD/HD.They treat it more like a charm that will keep away evil than an actual tool to be used.

For the record...

Dont sleep with a gun under my pillow,wear a "tactical belt" whatever that is(does the occasional fann...micro weapon pack count?),or shower with my pistol(thats what the piston AR is for).

[quinn2187]

does it really matter what people call thier "gun"? maybe some of the other "ranger rick" lingo is a bit of somebody trying to be somebody they truely are not. but if thats the case go to the other end of the bar if it bothers you. as far as who carries what, carry whats comfortable for the situations. whe i carry it depends on what i am wearing and where i am going. the same for how many reloads you carry. i sometimes carry a .38+p with only five rounds. sometimes with a reload. and sometimes its a .45 with an extra magazine. more often than not its nothing. i have been military and i am leo, but none of that matters when it comes to what you carry, where you carry it, and how much of it you carry.

[Brian Pfleuger]

does it really matter what people call thier "gun"?

No, but that is a topic for another forum entirely. We're talking about what people call their weapons. Those 2 words were explained previously.

[BuckHammer]

I get so tired of people telling me what I do or don't need. When liberals eavesdrop on a conversation about firearms, they almost always ask me, "Why do you need a gun?" I get so tired of that crap. I really don't see the problem with people carrying handguns that have capacities of over eight rounds. I can't remember a time when having too much ammunition was problematic. Furthermore, I have yet to run into one of these "mall ninja" types in real life, unless you're counting anyone who feels more comfortable carrying a handgun with a double stack magazine. I run into lots of those people, because those "weapons" (also never knew that word was a problem, since a handgun is a weapon, after all) are effective. In my experience, most people prefer for things that they own to be effective, especially their weapons. If you feel more comfortable with a firearm with only eight rounds, that's fine, I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

Oh yeah, +1 for scorpion_tyr, I agree with everything he has posted on this thread so far.

In conclusion, I am not a "mall ninja", and I don't know or have ever seen any. You are just insulting a lot of people and wasting everybody's time. You said it best:

Originally Posted by MaxHeadSpace

I'm not trolling. Or maybe I am...

The only reason I'm posting here is that the "why do you need that" crowd really gets on my nerves. I just get so tired of it.

[Swampghost]

After a recent trip to the Palm Beach gunshow I have an idea of what the OP is protesting. I call them PlayStation kids and they're rich. They walk through and buy the latest tech. and use the lingo without a thought about what it can really do. It's just COOL and they can afford it ALL. They take it home in their late model Mercedes/Lotus/Porsche and, hopefully, just play with it there. Preferably without any live ammo.